Will the online casino's ban me for this?
Discussion
amusingduck said:
Inertiatic said:
Aye...
But with online gambling ive always wondered, is an automated table actually random? Does the algorithm learn the players style after a while and try to second guess them?
Computers cannot generate truly random numbers. I highly doubt they try to learn from the player though.But with online gambling ive always wondered, is an automated table actually random? Does the algorithm learn the players style after a while and try to second guess them?
I was just musing really. I guess its feasible but probably not worth it. They are not exactly going broke are they :-)
Edited by Inertiatic on Wednesday 4th March 11:26
I was working (residency) in a well know jazz club in Soho years ago, and between sets I would go into a slot machine emporium round the corner. I watched a 'high/low' card game for a while and realised that due to a musical & rhythmical pattern I could beat it. I made more from that machine each night than I made from playing jazz. It took them 3 weeks to work out I was losing them money and they banned me from the place and removed the machine.
They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
GetCarter said:
I was working (residency) in a well know jazz club in Soho years ago, and between sets I would go into a slot machine emporium round the corner. I watched a 'high/low' card game for a while and realised that due to a musical & rhythmical pattern I could beat it. I made more from that machine each night than I made from playing. It took them 3 weeks to work out I was losing them money and they banned me from the place and removed the machine.
They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
Slot machines don't work by music or rhythmical means...They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
Neither does Jazz.
HTH (or perhaps that's what you meant).
FredClogs said:
GetCarter said:
I was working (residency) in a well know jazz club in Soho years ago, and between sets I would go into a slot machine emporium round the corner. I watched a 'high/low' card game for a while and realised that due to a musical & rhythmical pattern I could beat it. I made more from that machine each night than I made from playing. It took them 3 weeks to work out I was losing them money and they banned me from the place and removed the machine.
They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
Slot machines don't work by music or rhythmical means...They didn't like smart arses.
If someone is 'beating' the house on a website... things will change!
Neither does Jazz.
HTH (or perhaps that's what you meant).
FYI - It would flash high/low with musical accompaniment ...and one had to hit the button to double the win or lose. I worked out it never did more than 7 lows in a row, so as soon as I heard 7, I hit the button and doubled my money. when I got to £20, I'd cash out and start again with 10p.
As for Jazz... I never quite worked that out
Edited by GetCarter on Wednesday 4th March 11:45
Alex said:
Many years ago, some friends and I used to regularly play an electronic quiz machine in our local. It wasn't long before we knew the answers to all the questions in the database and regularly won tens of pounds per night.
This I believe is possible and know a reputable story about a group of teachers who cleaned up around London on the "Who wants to be a millionaire" machine, I believe there was around 12,000 questions though, some of which were easy enough that they'd be average general knowledge, iirc there was about 4,000 obscure facts you'd need to learn to be able to hit the jackpot (£50 maybe) each time, which took about 30minutes of playing. That's why you don't see them in pubs anymore.
RobinBanks said:
It's random. You may come out with more cash than you started, you may not.
Sometimes you will get some reds in a row, sometimes blacks, sometimes a mixture. You've simply been lucky so far.
It's not random.Sometimes you will get some reds in a row, sometimes blacks, sometimes a mixture. You've simply been lucky so far.
However, you're probably not going to find out in what way it isn't random without at least a CS degree and a good understanding of statistics and cryptography. Even then, unless the company has really screwed up, you're probably going to need some decent hardware or rent some time on a cloud computing service, in addition to spending your actual money rolling the virtual dice a few times to get something to work with. Even then, no guarantees.
All in all, whilst it does occasionally happen, if you don't already have a job testing the security of far more important systems (and in particular you know how to identify when your brain is seeing patterns in genuinely random data), go ahead and assume it's random.
I'm banned from a rather large online betting site with lots of the same number at the start of their address. And all other online ganbling sites associated with them. (there is a lot)
Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
FredClogs said:
Slot machines don't work by music or rhythmical means...
Neither does Jazz.
HTH (or perhaps that's what you meant).
There are logical, repeating patterns to how they operate rather than "pure chance" though, that certain people are able to notice or learn, certainly with older mechanical rather than computer based systems. Neither does Jazz.
HTH (or perhaps that's what you meant).
OP though is talking of the nick leeson method isn't he?
Ug_lee said:
I'm banned from a rather large online betting site with lots of the same number at the start of their address. And all other online ganbling sites associated with them. (there is a lot)
Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
Of course not.Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
Ug_lee said:
I'm banned from a rather large online betting site with lots of the same number at the start of their address. And all other online ganbling sites associated with them. (there is a lot)
Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
So was this some kind of glitch in their RNG? What did forcing the green involve?Was playing a system called forcing the green on Roulette. Over the course of a weekend I built up from £100 to £3500 before something changed and I lost about £2K without the green coming up. Bailed out and had their 'Fraud Department' onto me via email stating I was not playing within the spirit of the game and could not withdraw my winnings.
I explained I couldn't play a system on a supposedly random game and if I wanted to bet like that in the local casino, they would think I'm mad but would let me. Unless you are telling me the Rouleette you operate is not random??
They then said I hadn't gambled enough though I proved I had put over £100K on bets through the course of building up my kitty. Then the argument turned to the money I had at 1st deposited, that they doubled when you first sign up to their site.
I asked them to take that money back and pay me the winnings and I wouldn't bother them anymore.
They paid me, then banned me
hairyben said:
There are logical, repeating patterns to how they operate rather than "pure chance" though, that certain people are able to notice or learn, certainly with older mechanical rather than computer based systems.
OP though is talking of the nick leeson method isn't he?
My friend and I played "The Italian Job" fruit machine so many times we could spot it's payout pattern and how far through the cycle it was. I can't recall the details, but, there was a pattern that signified it was about to payout 3 jackpots in a row. Often, the lucky gambler would take the first jackpot and walk away. We would put anoth quid in and take the next 2. To get to this level of knowledge cost tens of thousands of pounds though and overall I'm certain we were very down financially. OP though is talking of the nick leeson method isn't he?
As a coincidence, I was just looking on eBay to see if I could buy one and have it shipped to where I live now.
A spinning mechanical wheel or ping pong balls tumbling in a lotto machine are random.
A 'random' number generated by a computer is not random. How can it be? Someone told the computer how to pick the number, so in theory you could find out what they told the computer to do and ca-ching!
In theory also, if you had a sensitive enough sensor to detect the precise velocity and position of the ball and roulette wheel, and a fast enough computer, you could build a predicting machine too.
A 'random' number generated by a computer is not random. How can it be? Someone told the computer how to pick the number, so in theory you could find out what they told the computer to do and ca-ching!
In theory also, if you had a sensitive enough sensor to detect the precise velocity and position of the ball and roulette wheel, and a fast enough computer, you could build a predicting machine too.
I've been to the casino and played roulette when I'm drunk about seven times. So far I'm most certainly up having won about £750 from initial bets totalling about £200. Drunken me must have some sort of system going. Have to credit my friend on one night though, after losing his money rapidly I kept giving him chips to bet with. Instead he pocketed them all and turned my £120 or so into £180 when I went to cash up my winnings.
h0b0 said:
My friend and I played "The Italian Job" fruit machine so many times we could spot it's payout pattern and how far through the cycle it was. I can't recall the details, but, there was a pattern that signified it was about to payout 3 jackpots in a row. Often, the lucky gambler would take the first jackpot and walk away. We would put anoth quid in and take the next 2. To get to this level of knowledge cost tens of thousands of pounds though and overall I'm certain we were very down financially.
As a coincidence, I was just looking on eBay to see if I could buy one and have it shipped to where I live now.
I had a mate whose dad owned a pub - big place, B&B rooms as well, and it had a lot of contractors staying there for work at the local power station. So there were a lot of guys there with not a lot to do.As a coincidence, I was just looking on eBay to see if I could buy one and have it shipped to where I live now.
We used to sit there of a Saturday watching the regulars throw money in to the fruit machine. It had a recognisable sequence too, so my mate would just waltz up, put a few quid in, and win every time. I think his dad saw it as his pocket money...
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