Daughter ostracised at school
Discussion
fido said:
I actually agree with the original poster. I can honestly say looking back at school, I wish I had spent less time hanging round with the crowd and more time on cool hobbies - where you'll meet better suited friends!
It's very easy to say in hindsight.Deffo get more hobbies and a social group outside school, but telling a 14yr old girl not to worry about it won't help. If anything, she may feel more isolated due to lack of understanding and support.
fido said:
I actually agree with the original poster. I can honestly say looking back at school, I wish I had spent less time hanging round with the crowd and more time on cool hobbies - where you'll meet better suited friends!
Likewise, but at the time you just want to fit in and be one of the gang.That said spending time doing other stuff does at least fill your weekends so you don't have to mope about on your tod.
Involve the school.
Look at getting her into outside interests - youth club, art group, sport, guides/explorer scouts (once you're 14 you're in the senior section so is more outward bound and less formal), cadets - anything to meet new people who aren't b
hes.
Look at moving school - even if you have to stretch to school fees for 2 years it may be worth it if it changes her environment.
Being 14 is tough and the female of the species can be way nastier than the male.
Look at getting her into outside interests - youth club, art group, sport, guides/explorer scouts (once you're 14 you're in the senior section so is more outward bound and less formal), cadets - anything to meet new people who aren't b
hes.Look at moving school - even if you have to stretch to school fees for 2 years it may be worth it if it changes her environment.
Being 14 is tough and the female of the species can be way nastier than the male.
croyde said:
ali_kat said:
Sad stuff
You're doing well with your daughter, I'm sorry that she's going through this
, but outside interests is exactly what is needed.One of those 3 girls from school kept it quiet that we went ice skating together. She'd quite often end up going twice, once in the group & again with me.
Mum got me involved in my local swimming group, so that part of my evenings & weekends were spent teaching toddlers to swim.
OP - could you afford too send her to a summer school or similar?
Lots of people there won't know each other and might at least enjoy the same thing? There are some groups that fund places (Rotary Club used to via the Rotary Youth Leadership Award). Or Duke of Edinburgh (some school cross over)?
Lots of people there won't know each other and might at least enjoy the same thing? There are some groups that fund places (Rotary Club used to via the Rotary Youth Leadership Award). Or Duke of Edinburgh (some school cross over)?
budgie smuggler said:
Likewise, but at the time you just want to fit in and be one of the gang.
But they're not going to respect you because you're hanging around them and feeling excluded. They will like you because you're going to karaoke after school or learning triple-axel jumps or having flying lessons at the weekend [or whatever girls like to do these days]. Hindsight as you say.ali_kat said:
All of them have apologised to me for their behaviour, now that they have kids they understand how nasty they were. I haven't forgiven.
That was big of them, but not you.Children can be awful, sadly that isn't going to change any time soon. If they've taken time to apologise and even empathise now that they have children, not to forgive is churlish and every bit as childish as their behaviour was back then.
A very valuable post, ali_kat, and brave to write it too.
A lot of it matches up to what my fiancée went through. We were at the same school for, but we didn't really know each other well until 16-17. I saw a lot of this happen at the time but, as is the way when you're young, never really understood what it was until far later.
She was part of a little group of friends much like that described here, but became their go-to target for abuse. She was insulted, demeaned, mocked and excluded. One friend she thought she could rely on, who was actually a friend to her when separated from the rest of the group, turned against her rather than be excluded as well. Another (very wisely) managed to leave the school and go elsewhere, leaving her feeling completely alone with nobody to turn to as the abuse continued.
This started at the age of 10 or so, and by 14 she had developed anorexia nervosa, suffered clinical depression and self-harmed over an extended period. In the nine years since then, she is not yet fully recovered. She still has a significant eating disorder and irrational body image problems. There is no doubt that all of this stems from her treatment at school, and we will be dealing with it for a long time to come.
I know she wouldn't mind me posting this because she does a lot of mental health awareness work, is open about her past and ongoing issues and wants to use what happened to her to support others. I don't want to terrify the OP about what may happen - and it has to be said that my OH was younger and perhaps more vulnerable when this was going on - but my point is that this sort of thing can be incredibly damaging, to the point of being life-altering. Those saying it's "not really bullying" have no clue whatsoever. You have to stop it, but I'm sorry to say that other than by working with the school (which will find it extremely difficult to act), I don't know how you can.
It's not easy to put a "positive" ending on a post like this, but the heartless beings responsible for her abuse are all currently alone, out of contact with anyone from the school and by all accounts surrounded by a disaster zone of ruined relationships. We have many close friends from the school, have been happy together for nearly five years, and while there are still mental issues for us to deal with, she is by far the strongest, most selfless and amazing person I have ever known. Nobody who's had an easy life could turn out half the person she is.
One or two of them have apologised too, but it is unforgiveable. No decent human would behave that way to anyone, child or no.
A lot of it matches up to what my fiancée went through. We were at the same school for, but we didn't really know each other well until 16-17. I saw a lot of this happen at the time but, as is the way when you're young, never really understood what it was until far later.
She was part of a little group of friends much like that described here, but became their go-to target for abuse. She was insulted, demeaned, mocked and excluded. One friend she thought she could rely on, who was actually a friend to her when separated from the rest of the group, turned against her rather than be excluded as well. Another (very wisely) managed to leave the school and go elsewhere, leaving her feeling completely alone with nobody to turn to as the abuse continued.
This started at the age of 10 or so, and by 14 she had developed anorexia nervosa, suffered clinical depression and self-harmed over an extended period. In the nine years since then, she is not yet fully recovered. She still has a significant eating disorder and irrational body image problems. There is no doubt that all of this stems from her treatment at school, and we will be dealing with it for a long time to come.
I know she wouldn't mind me posting this because she does a lot of mental health awareness work, is open about her past and ongoing issues and wants to use what happened to her to support others. I don't want to terrify the OP about what may happen - and it has to be said that my OH was younger and perhaps more vulnerable when this was going on - but my point is that this sort of thing can be incredibly damaging, to the point of being life-altering. Those saying it's "not really bullying" have no clue whatsoever. You have to stop it, but I'm sorry to say that other than by working with the school (which will find it extremely difficult to act), I don't know how you can.
It's not easy to put a "positive" ending on a post like this, but the heartless beings responsible for her abuse are all currently alone, out of contact with anyone from the school and by all accounts surrounded by a disaster zone of ruined relationships. We have many close friends from the school, have been happy together for nearly five years, and while there are still mental issues for us to deal with, she is by far the strongest, most selfless and amazing person I have ever known. Nobody who's had an easy life could turn out half the person she is.
One or two of them have apologised too, but it is unforgiveable. No decent human would behave that way to anyone, child or no.
fido said:
hornetrider said:
Baryonyx said:
She shouldn't worry about it, she'll be finished school soon and will likely see very little of the people she met there once she goes. In the meantime, she could occupy herself by studying or reading, perhaps?
Marvellous 
Now try to think about doing it with no friends. No support in the classroom. You speak up in a lesson with the right answer & your book with your homework in is stolen from the pile handed in. It appears back in your desk in time for the next lesson. You don't even realise it's gone. After the 3rd time, you hand it to the teacher & get called a creep, then you get tripped up at lunch & it looks like an accident, but your food is still all over the floor.
You get called a lemon because all your mates are male, yet you don't have a boyfriend because you're too scared to loose that friendship.
Or you get invited out & go. But there's no one there. They've told you the wrong date & time on purpose. You sit there on your own because that's better than ringing your Mum to come & get you.
They start rumours that your Dad is in Prison, not in the Navy; that's why he's never home.
Duke Thrust said:
ali_kat said:
All of them have apologised to me for their behaviour, now that they have kids they understand how nasty they were. I haven't forgiven.
That was big of them, but not you.Children can be awful, sadly that isn't going to change any time soon. If they've taken time to apologise and even empathise now that they have children, not to forgive is churlish and every bit as childish as their behaviour was back then.
What they did to me has affected my whole life. It took them 20 years to apologise & you think that they should be forgiven?!!
McSam said:
She was part of a little group of friends much like that described here, but became their go-to target for abuse. She was insulted, demeaned, mocked and excluded. One friend she thought she could rely on, who was actually a friend to her when separated from the rest of the group, turned against her rather than be excluded as well. Another (very wisely) managed to leave the school and go elsewhere, leaving her feeling completely alone with nobody to turn to as the abuse continued.
This started at the age of 10 or so, and by 14 she had developed anorexia nervosa, suffered clinical depression and self-harmed over an extended period. In the nine years since then, she is not yet fully recovered. She still has a significant eating disorder and irrational body image problems. There is no doubt that all of this stems from her treatment at school, and we will be dealing with it for a long time to come.
I know she wouldn't mind me posting this because she does a lot of mental health awareness work, is open about her past and ongoing issues and wants to use what happened to her to support others. I don't want to terrify the OP about what may happen - and it has to be said that my OH was younger and perhaps more vulnerable when this was going on - but my point is that this sort of thing can be incredibly damaging, to the point of being life-altering. Those saying it's "not really bullying" have no clue whatsoever. You have to stop it, but I'm sorry to say that other than by working with the school (which will find it extremely difficult to act), I don't know how you can.
It's not easy to put a "positive" ending on a post like this, but the heartless beings responsible for her abuse are all currently alone, out of contact with anyone from the school and by all accounts surrounded by a disaster zone of ruined relationships. We have many close friends from the school, have been happy together for nearly five years, and while there are still mental issues for us to deal with, she is by far the strongest, most selfless and amazing person I have ever known. Nobody who's had an easy life could turn out half the person she is.
One or two of them have apologised too, but it is unforgiveable. No decent human would behave that way to anyone, child or no.
Yes, mine began at 10 too. Looking at your fiancé's experience I guess I was lucky that I've just come out of it with a fear of women. This started at the age of 10 or so, and by 14 she had developed anorexia nervosa, suffered clinical depression and self-harmed over an extended period. In the nine years since then, she is not yet fully recovered. She still has a significant eating disorder and irrational body image problems. There is no doubt that all of this stems from her treatment at school, and we will be dealing with it for a long time to come.
I know she wouldn't mind me posting this because she does a lot of mental health awareness work, is open about her past and ongoing issues and wants to use what happened to her to support others. I don't want to terrify the OP about what may happen - and it has to be said that my OH was younger and perhaps more vulnerable when this was going on - but my point is that this sort of thing can be incredibly damaging, to the point of being life-altering. Those saying it's "not really bullying" have no clue whatsoever. You have to stop it, but I'm sorry to say that other than by working with the school (which will find it extremely difficult to act), I don't know how you can.
It's not easy to put a "positive" ending on a post like this, but the heartless beings responsible for her abuse are all currently alone, out of contact with anyone from the school and by all accounts surrounded by a disaster zone of ruined relationships. We have many close friends from the school, have been happy together for nearly five years, and while there are still mental issues for us to deal with, she is by far the strongest, most selfless and amazing person I have ever known. Nobody who's had an easy life could turn out half the person she is.
One or two of them have apologised too, but it is unforgiveable. No decent human would behave that way to anyone, child or no.
You're right, 90% of the others posting here have no idea
ali_kat said:
You have read my post right?
What they did to me has affected my whole life. It took them 20 years to apologise & you think that they should be forgiven?!!
Quite. What they did to me has affected my whole life. It took them 20 years to apologise & you think that they should be forgiven?!!
The male bullies from my school are still nobs, I have the misfortune to bump into them occasionally. Karma dealt with a few of them.
ali_kat said:
fido said:
hornetrider said:
Baryonyx said:
She shouldn't worry about it, she'll be finished school soon and will likely see very little of the people she met there once she goes. In the meantime, she could occupy herself by studying or reading, perhaps?
Marvellous Now try to think about doing it with no friends. No support in the classroom. You speak up in a lesson with the right answer & your book with your homework in is stolen from the pile handed in. It appears back in your desk in time for the next lesson. You don't even realise it's gone. After the 3rd time, you hand it to the teacher & get called a creep, then you get tripped up at lunch & it looks like an accident, but your food is still all over the floor.
You get called a lemon because all your mates are male, yet you don't have a boyfriend because you're too scared to loose that friendship.
Or you get invited out & go. But there's no one there. They've told you the wrong date & time on purpose. You sit there on your own because that's better than ringing your Mum to come & get you.
They start rumours that your Dad is in Prison, not in the Navy; that's why he's never home.
I too am much happier in the company of men, and it's never occurred to me until right now that this might be the whole reason why.
Girls can be awful, awful b
hes. Please, OP, make sure the school follows through with whatever plan you all agree to put in place.Op - sorry to read about your daughter, very upsetting for all involved. Similar stuff happened to my other half at school and she still thinks about it 15 years later. I can’t think of any sensible advice for what to do with the current, but was thinking about the future
Is she at a six form, or will she move onto a different college at 16 17 18? If the latter now is the time to try and get her into some clubs / groups etc outside of school, so hopefully when she moves to college she will hopefully already have some aquaintances. My parents made me do tennis / duke of Edinburgh’s and join a band. At the time it seemed pointless, but I had an active mind and would easily get into trouble if I had time on my hands
Tennis - met some people who didn’t end up going to the same college as me, but i knew a bunch of their friends who did
Duke of Edinburgh’s - made me mix with decent kids - which then led to going skiing at the sports centre / bike rides etc out of the scheme / school / college
Band - Lots of school kids from all over the same town, you've guessed it, by the time I got to college i was seeing familiar faces
Also I know its not what you want to hear, but if she does go onto college with boys there, she will probably make friends with a few of those which will take her mind off things
The people who were unpleasant to my GF now all appear to be total loosers, whilst not a nice thing it is funny to see
so in summary try and find some extra activity out of school.
Is she at a six form, or will she move onto a different college at 16 17 18? If the latter now is the time to try and get her into some clubs / groups etc outside of school, so hopefully when she moves to college she will hopefully already have some aquaintances. My parents made me do tennis / duke of Edinburgh’s and join a band. At the time it seemed pointless, but I had an active mind and would easily get into trouble if I had time on my hands
Tennis - met some people who didn’t end up going to the same college as me, but i knew a bunch of their friends who did
Duke of Edinburgh’s - made me mix with decent kids - which then led to going skiing at the sports centre / bike rides etc out of the scheme / school / college
Band - Lots of school kids from all over the same town, you've guessed it, by the time I got to college i was seeing familiar faces
Also I know its not what you want to hear, but if she does go onto college with boys there, she will probably make friends with a few of those which will take her mind off things
The people who were unpleasant to my GF now all appear to be total loosers, whilst not a nice thing it is funny to see
so in summary try and find some extra activity out of school.
Zelda Pinwheel said:
I too am much happier in the company of men, and it's never occurred to me until right now that this might be the whole reason why.
Girls can be awful, awful bhes. Please, OP, make sure the school follows through with whatever plan you all agree to put in place.
Sorry Zelda Girls can be awful, awful b
hes. Please, OP, make sure the school follows through with whatever plan you all agree to put in place. But I hope that this realisation helps you move forward.You know that, deep down, it's down to jealousy. But even if you work out what they are jealous over, you can't fix it. Short of moving away
For those that don't believe this, ask your wife what happens when she goes out with a group of more that 4 women. Who it is that gets talked about when 1 goes to the loo on their own, or isn't there...
I felt compelled to sign in and defend Ali_Kat with her viewpoint.
I too, went to an all-girls' school, the only year 6 from my primary school to move up to secondary school, so I had no-one. All I had was some girls that were in different years and my sister, again in another year, so I couldn't meet up with them or hang with them as they had their own things going on, as well as different classes/form groups/clicks.
I tried making friends, as well as I could. Coming from a small village where everyone knew everyone, and where all the kids hung out together, it was a skill I wasn't particularly au fait with. Every twist and turn along the way was marred with derision and cruelness from other girls.
I ended up making friends with three girls eventually, who I thought were very good friends of mine.
Until two of them started ganging up against me, making up stories, and me being naive and desperately trying to fit in; i believed them. One particular story centered on them making up a boy and saying he liked me; and stupidly I went with it (but that's a story which hurts to talk about, let alone type).
The other girl soon revealed her true colours as a two-faced b****.
An innocent comment from me, got twisted by her into total bull, and ended up with me getting slapped by a ginormous giant of a girl, and me none the wiser to what happened until the girl who slapped me told me what I had allegedly said.
Along with getting bullied by two other girls, that were cruel to me all the time - making fun of me, picking on me, making my life misery - I had a horrendous time at secondary school.
After all that, I only have one friend that i remained close with, and even then I'm not sure about her sometimes. I know other girls that were amazing to me, but I was never in there 'click' of friends fully, so I still don't get invited to a lot of stuff they all do. To this day, I have maybe three or four close friends, two girls and two guys.
I'm with Ali_Kat because of all these girls did to me, they later apologised, but that still does little to stitch the wounds of the abject misery I endured school with. The girls that bullied me nearly all have kids and broken relationships, when I've been in a relationship with my husband for 10 years, married for almost 4. I will be civil with them, but I will never forgive them. They ruined my school years when I should have enjoyed them, and still to this day I suffer with trust issues, and guarded feelings, along with crippling insecurity.
MACP, please do all you can to help your daughter - what she is going through is bullying, no two doubts about it. I know it's hard for her, but she needs to rise above them, and try as hard as she can to make new friends. I know, much easier said than done. But like others have said, get her to participate in things outside of school, let her enjoy mutual activities with like-minded people. If she is as vunerable as I was, it needs to be stopped immediately. I wish I could offer more advice, but the bullying I suffered never got dealt with, so I couldn't offer advice on what more to do.
I wish you all the best, and hope that she can move past them and get on with her school years - it will be what forms her as an adult.
I too, went to an all-girls' school, the only year 6 from my primary school to move up to secondary school, so I had no-one. All I had was some girls that were in different years and my sister, again in another year, so I couldn't meet up with them or hang with them as they had their own things going on, as well as different classes/form groups/clicks.
I tried making friends, as well as I could. Coming from a small village where everyone knew everyone, and where all the kids hung out together, it was a skill I wasn't particularly au fait with. Every twist and turn along the way was marred with derision and cruelness from other girls.
I ended up making friends with three girls eventually, who I thought were very good friends of mine.
Until two of them started ganging up against me, making up stories, and me being naive and desperately trying to fit in; i believed them. One particular story centered on them making up a boy and saying he liked me; and stupidly I went with it (but that's a story which hurts to talk about, let alone type).
The other girl soon revealed her true colours as a two-faced b****.
An innocent comment from me, got twisted by her into total bull, and ended up with me getting slapped by a ginormous giant of a girl, and me none the wiser to what happened until the girl who slapped me told me what I had allegedly said.
Along with getting bullied by two other girls, that were cruel to me all the time - making fun of me, picking on me, making my life misery - I had a horrendous time at secondary school.
After all that, I only have one friend that i remained close with, and even then I'm not sure about her sometimes. I know other girls that were amazing to me, but I was never in there 'click' of friends fully, so I still don't get invited to a lot of stuff they all do. To this day, I have maybe three or four close friends, two girls and two guys.
I'm with Ali_Kat because of all these girls did to me, they later apologised, but that still does little to stitch the wounds of the abject misery I endured school with. The girls that bullied me nearly all have kids and broken relationships, when I've been in a relationship with my husband for 10 years, married for almost 4. I will be civil with them, but I will never forgive them. They ruined my school years when I should have enjoyed them, and still to this day I suffer with trust issues, and guarded feelings, along with crippling insecurity.
MACP, please do all you can to help your daughter - what she is going through is bullying, no two doubts about it. I know it's hard for her, but she needs to rise above them, and try as hard as she can to make new friends. I know, much easier said than done. But like others have said, get her to participate in things outside of school, let her enjoy mutual activities with like-minded people. If she is as vunerable as I was, it needs to be stopped immediately. I wish I could offer more advice, but the bullying I suffered never got dealt with, so I couldn't offer advice on what more to do.
I wish you all the best, and hope that she can move past them and get on with her school years - it will be what forms her as an adult.
Sorry to read that OP, that's children and "fitting in" for you, unfortunately. There's a saying that someone* once said to me when I was a kid and when I see the way children can be with each other then I can really believe it - it was "there's nowt so cruel as children". This sort of thing has always gone on, and I wonder if these girls will feel ashamed when they grow up a bit or run into your daughter in later life?
- Cyril Smith, believe it or not.
Ali_Kat, Zelda Pinwheel - sorry to read of both your stories too, It's a relief for me to see that i was not alone - though it's not a happy relief, considering all the torment we went through.
I hate the fact that bullying goes on, hate it with every fibre of my being. I hate that some people have to be like it, and others have to be someone they're not in order to overcome it, or live in misery when they are deemed 'different'.
All i went through had such an effect on me, that i cannot watch films or programmes in which people are ostracised for being 'different' or whatever. It makes me feel uncomfortable, and can drive me to tears if it is particularly awful. Why can't everyone get the f*** along?
I hate the fact that bullying goes on, hate it with every fibre of my being. I hate that some people have to be like it, and others have to be someone they're not in order to overcome it, or live in misery when they are deemed 'different'.
All i went through had such an effect on me, that i cannot watch films or programmes in which people are ostracised for being 'different' or whatever. It makes me feel uncomfortable, and can drive me to tears if it is particularly awful. Why can't everyone get the f*** along?
I have young daughters and can sympathise and only imagine how heartbreaking it must be. Girls can be very cruel unfortunately, being rejected by peers at a formative age is tough, my wife had a hard time a school and it's something that stays with some people for life. Although the comments about grinning and bearing it and just getting on with life seem a little callous and unhelpful I'm afraid that's possibly all that can be done. She just needs to find another peer group or a friend from outside the school or accept that hanging out with the less popular girls is her station in life instead of aspiring to be in with what ever crowd is rejecting her - there will be more than several options of friends. That means new activities, club, sports etc... until something clicks.
It needs sorting. I was bullied at school and it wasn’t pleasant. As a male it ranged from the odd physical attack (usually being pushed over and the likes) to the usual name calling and psychological stuff. It died off in the last years of school as more and more of the bullies were expelled (it wasn’t just me they were having a go at) or taught in isolation so I was able to concentrate on my GCSE’s and come out with good grades in the right subjects. Though I had a small group of genuine friends for support so I wasn’t totally isolated even when the bullying occurred (when they weren’t around). Thankfully it never reached the levels Ali_Kat and Zelda experienced.
I have no idea what became the majority of those that did the bulling except for one of them that was out of prison on a tag in his early 20’s – tells you the sort of people that some of them were or became. I still wouldn’t piss on any of them if they were on fire.
I was 19/20 before I could accept friendly banter as anything other than bullying comments because of how it had affected me psychologically. I was probably in my early 20’s before I started to come out of my shell properly (coincided with working for a living). These days I have a number of good friends of various ages and no lasting scars and lots of healthy banter so I came through it OK. I was never afraid to seek help and you shouldn’t be afraid to give it (though arguably in the short term it made things worse as I was “a grass”). Give her all the support she needs and talk to the school, they can’t force anybody to be included in out of school activities but they can try and deal with the snide comments and other aspects of the issues.
She’ll come through it fine too with help and support, school kids can be very nasty, very nasty indeed.
I have no idea what became the majority of those that did the bulling except for one of them that was out of prison on a tag in his early 20’s – tells you the sort of people that some of them were or became. I still wouldn’t piss on any of them if they were on fire.
I was 19/20 before I could accept friendly banter as anything other than bullying comments because of how it had affected me psychologically. I was probably in my early 20’s before I started to come out of my shell properly (coincided with working for a living). These days I have a number of good friends of various ages and no lasting scars and lots of healthy banter so I came through it OK. I was never afraid to seek help and you shouldn’t be afraid to give it (though arguably in the short term it made things worse as I was “a grass”). Give her all the support she needs and talk to the school, they can’t force anybody to be included in out of school activities but they can try and deal with the snide comments and other aspects of the issues.
She’ll come through it fine too with help and support, school kids can be very nasty, very nasty indeed.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 3rd March 13:08
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