Daughter ostracised at school
Discussion
There is a fair bit of bullying goes on on these forums, and in my workplace and in my social circles. School is a particularly strong catalyst for it and the symptoms and effects are greatly amplified but let's not pretend it's just teenage girls who do this stuff, have you seen the adverts they put on TV, they push far more buttons than a teenager could. As such it's very important that kids are taught to strategies and overcome other peoples s
tty behaviour and taught how irrelevant it really is to their life aspirations and happiness, and that is done by raising self esteem and empowering peoples rights to be individuals with individual likes/dislikes and opinions, and part of that is about spending some time with yourself and being comfortable in that place.
As Ali Kat said above it can have lasting effects, but it's the expectation of "norms" that does as much damage as the enforcement of them and kids aren't responsible for that. The poor women can't go shopping - will somebody just think about that! (only a little uncalled for).
tty behaviour and taught how irrelevant it really is to their life aspirations and happiness, and that is done by raising self esteem and empowering peoples rights to be individuals with individual likes/dislikes and opinions, and part of that is about spending some time with yourself and being comfortable in that place.As Ali Kat said above it can have lasting effects, but it's the expectation of "norms" that does as much damage as the enforcement of them and kids aren't responsible for that. The poor women can't go shopping - will somebody just think about that! (only a little uncalled for).
Id agree with the its not really hardcore bullying bit,
in our case it was parties organized that she was only reluctantly invited to, bit of name calling,
our daughter was our first, andi think you do tend to over protect the first,
Ive lost count of the times i told her to have it out with them or belt one of them, but she wouldnt,
they are all friends now, with the exception of one, who got some nasty texts of my daughter, which ended up with her getting in hot water(it wasnt her it was her boyfriend, but in a strange way it cleared the air).
all i can say is tell her to man up, dont be so sensitive and learn not to give a bugger,
mine is fine now, very popular and bags of confidence.
but i do sympathize with you
in our case it was parties organized that she was only reluctantly invited to, bit of name calling,
our daughter was our first, andi think you do tend to over protect the first,
Ive lost count of the times i told her to have it out with them or belt one of them, but she wouldnt,
they are all friends now, with the exception of one, who got some nasty texts of my daughter, which ended up with her getting in hot water(it wasnt her it was her boyfriend, but in a strange way it cleared the air).
all i can say is tell her to man up, dont be so sensitive and learn not to give a bugger,
mine is fine now, very popular and bags of confidence.
but i do sympathize with you
Andrew - Best to ignore the troll.
OP - Girls can be cruel, as others have said. The stories my wife tells me of her school days are awful. If feasible, I would seriously consider changing schools. If not, outside interests and a request to the school to do a lesson/discussion on bullying and the consequences as a non-personal way of dealing with the issue might work.
OP - Girls can be cruel, as others have said. The stories my wife tells me of her school days are awful. If feasible, I would seriously consider changing schools. If not, outside interests and a request to the school to do a lesson/discussion on bullying and the consequences as a non-personal way of dealing with the issue might work.
AndrewEH1 said:
Duke Thrust said:
AndrewEH1 said:
You're an idiot...
Although if I was Ali I probably would have told them to fk right off and try to avoid them as much as possible.
Same question, really, what good would that do?Although if I was Ali I probably would have told them to f
k right off and try to avoid them as much as possible.Doing what you suggest would show the same lack of emotional maturity as the children that caused her all the pain in the first place.
Thanks for the name calling though, ironic really.
The decades of trust, depression, body and other issues caused by this abuse is equally unforgivable.
As for name calling, you are being completely insolent. Therefore being an idiot.
(Sorry if this all comes across as white-knighting)
Forgiveness isn't easy, but it is very healing. Please explain why bearing a grudge would be better than forgiving.
Another all girls' school pupil here. It was a brutal environment to be in.
OP, I can sympathise. I hated my years in school and the only relief was that I had incredible friends outside school at Youth Orchestra and other local music groups. They were the people I mixed with at weekends and after school and have remained friends with my entire life. I can only suggest you help your daughter find some confidence and friends away from school. It might also be good for her to know that there are hundreds of other girls and boys going through exactly what she is going through, and adults who have been through it too. It's not just her, she isn't alone.
Bullying really does affect you for your whole life. I was a freak, weirdo, fat, too thin, useless at sport (last one picked for the team), geek, thick, swot... whatever currently wasn't cool. Girls are cruel at that age, and I'm not even sure they realise how awful they are. Now, despite having an amazing group of friends, plenty of coping mechanisms and a pretty good 'confident mask' I still sometimes wonder what they see in me and emotionally struggle in new social situations. It's a sad way to feel.
OP, I can sympathise. I hated my years in school and the only relief was that I had incredible friends outside school at Youth Orchestra and other local music groups. They were the people I mixed with at weekends and after school and have remained friends with my entire life. I can only suggest you help your daughter find some confidence and friends away from school. It might also be good for her to know that there are hundreds of other girls and boys going through exactly what she is going through, and adults who have been through it too. It's not just her, she isn't alone.
Bullying really does affect you for your whole life. I was a freak, weirdo, fat, too thin, useless at sport (last one picked for the team), geek, thick, swot... whatever currently wasn't cool. Girls are cruel at that age, and I'm not even sure they realise how awful they are. Now, despite having an amazing group of friends, plenty of coping mechanisms and a pretty good 'confident mask' I still sometimes wonder what they see in me and emotionally struggle in new social situations. It's a sad way to feel.
Duke Thrust said:
Do grow up and calm down, I'm not blaming the victim at all and it's very silly of you to suggest that. To hold onto a grudge when someone has apologised, can not and will not help. But as you're chock full, brimming if you will, with emotional intelligence, I'm sure you know this already.
But please, do share your wisdom further, why should she continue to bear a grudge?
You know, those sticking up for me refusing to forgive aren't white knights. Nor are they silly.But please, do share your wisdom further, why should she continue to bear a grudge?
I don't bear a grudge, I don't wish those girls lives changed for the worse (in fact seeing as one was thrice divorced single Grandmother by 32, I honestly wish them better lives than they have had).
But I don't forgive. Nor will I.
Their actions have adversely affected the WHOLE of my life, EVERY interaction I have with another female is based upon their treatment of me, which you don't seem to understand.
Forgiving them won't change that, forgiving them achieves nothing.
If I'd said I was raped would you expect me to forgive him too? (I was & I haven't) Their treatment of me has affected my life more than his actions.
Alexandra said:
I went to an all girls school and it sounds as though nothing has changed. I managed to befriend some girls by joining the same after-school clubs, tennis, hockey, netball etc. Your daughter could try inviting the problem girls home for supper and getting to know them better, perhaps start off with one or two and build friendships that way. Softly, softly, catchee monkey.
It didn't work for me, 1on1 they were Angels.Bluebarge said:
Duke Thrust said:
No I read your post, I think you need to be the bigger person and forgive - it might just help you to move along with your life.
Duke old chum, when in a hole...The problem is that apologies don't make things better when the misdemeanour they are apologising for is serious and prolonged, and to suggest that it should is incredibly glib.
Ask yourself this - if you had been subjected to a campaign of sustained harressment which had made your formative years a misery, would "sorry" make it all better, or would you feel that it was intended to make the perpetrator feel better?
Apologies, do make thing better, they show remorse and regret. An acknowledgment of the pain and upset enabled my sister to realise that actually there was nothing wrong with her, it was just the other girls being truly horrible to her to make them feel better/powerful/in a gang.
I'm sorry you all feel that this is such an outrageous point of view, but an apology with true contrition is enormously healing for both parties and that can only be a good thing.
yes, I think so! I struggle to understand the forgiveness or not idea.
I had a rough time at secondary school that has had some effects on me. However the bullies don't ever register in my thoughts, they are kind of irrelevant to me now. I honestly don't care if they are in prison or the government. What's important is my life now.
I had a rough time at secondary school that has had some effects on me. However the bullies don't ever register in my thoughts, they are kind of irrelevant to me now. I honestly don't care if they are in prison or the government. What's important is my life now.
McSam said:
orry to see more stories coming out, but as you say, there must be some kind of reassurance in seeing you're not the only one. Horrible that it happened to others, but all the same, just this short thread has shown me we're not the only ones dealing with the effects of this kind of thing. I might ask my OH to have a read of this thread, partly for that reason, but also because she may be able to give some advice for MACP's daughter's situation.
ali_kat, you can of course tell me to shut up and stop probing if you don't want to talk about it further, but your distrust of females is interesting. It's completely understandable, but a different outcome to what I've seen. For my OH, the effects are entirely centred around her body image and a kind of self-hatred which goes with that, but despite the abuse being entirely perpetrated by girls I don't think she has any ill feeling against girls in general. It takes her a while to get properly close to anyone, but most of her friends are girls and I certainly wouldn't say she's less comfortable with them. She often struggles to accept compliments from anyone, not girls in particular.
Zelda mentions she has much the same feelings as you, though perhaps not as pronounced. I wonder how common it is. Perhaps it's brought by being at an all-girls school, associating a female environment with that terrible experience...
She might find it of use too ali_kat, you can of course tell me to shut up and stop probing if you don't want to talk about it further, but your distrust of females is interesting. It's completely understandable, but a different outcome to what I've seen. For my OH, the effects are entirely centred around her body image and a kind of self-hatred which goes with that, but despite the abuse being entirely perpetrated by girls I don't think she has any ill feeling against girls in general. It takes her a while to get properly close to anyone, but most of her friends are girls and I certainly wouldn't say she's less comfortable with them. She often struggles to accept compliments from anyone, not girls in particular.
Zelda mentions she has much the same feelings as you, though perhaps not as pronounced. I wonder how common it is. Perhaps it's brought by being at an all-girls school, associating a female environment with that terrible experience...
No, I have body image issues, always have done. It just doesn't materialise like that. Plus I'm a good 20 years old by the sound of it
Put me in DDs & I'm happy as a pig in mud, put me outside at BTaP & I'm happy. Put me in the bar with the WAGs... I'm the one in the corner, nursing her drink & wishing she'd paid to have her hair & make-up done and had the confidence to wear the dress she wanted to wear, the confidence to say hi.
Bluebarge said:
The problem is that apologies don't make things better when the misdemeanour they are apologising for is serious and prolonged, and to suggest that it should is incredibly glib.
Ask yourself this - if you had been subjected to a campaign of sustained harressment which had made your formative years a misery, would "sorry" make it all better, or would you feel that it was intended to make the perpetrator feel better?
Precisely.Ask yourself this - if you had been subjected to a campaign of sustained harressment which had made your formative years a misery, would "sorry" make it all better, or would you feel that it was intended to make the perpetrator feel better?
It wasn't meabt, they were merely cleansing their conscience.
WestyCarl said:
I struggle to understand the forgiveness or not idea.
I had a rough time at secondary school that has had some effects on me. However the bullies don't ever register in my thoughts, they are kind of irrelevant to me now. I honestly don't care if they are in prison or the government. What's important is my life now.
Ditto, until I was cajoled into going to a reunion. Which was where they apologised. Not all together, just 1on1 when no one could see them talking to me...I had a rough time at secondary school that has had some effects on me. However the bullies don't ever register in my thoughts, they are kind of irrelevant to me now. I honestly don't care if they are in prison or the government. What's important is my life now.
OP. I could have written EXACTLY the same post 8 yrs ago. Girls can be seriously nasty. Boys at that age tend to sort out their differences with a bit of fisty cuffs and then get on with it where as the female of the species is far more vindictive.
In the end I told my daughter to stop trying so hard and just to play it cool. At a break times to find herself a good book sit down on her own and have a read. It took a week or so but eventually another girl joined her and then another until a whole new group was formed. Turns out there were plenty of girls hanging on to the fringes of other groups equally as unhappy.
It's bloody painful as a parent to watch your child suffer without bowling in fists a flying.
In the end I told my daughter to stop trying so hard and just to play it cool. At a break times to find herself a good book sit down on her own and have a read. It took a week or so but eventually another girl joined her and then another until a whole new group was formed. Turns out there were plenty of girls hanging on to the fringes of other groups equally as unhappy.
It's bloody painful as a parent to watch your child suffer without bowling in fists a flying.
ali_kat said:
Ditto, until I was cajoled into going to a reunion. Which was where they apologised. Not all together, just 1on1 when no one could see them talking to me...
Honestly I hated school. I used to get invited to various re-unions but didn't even reply. Why would I want to go back somewhere that I hated 
OP - The absolutely best way you can help your daughter long term is to help build her self esteem, so she doesn't have to attach to that other individual - you can be certain that will appear later in life.
In the short term you have no real control or influence on what goes on at school, you could ask for her to change class/school etc - the root cause issue will still be the same and the pattern will most likely continue in some other form.
You probably know what she enjoys doing, focus on these things outside school - make sure she understands she can make herself feel good about herself, do this practically. As parents, you're better placed to judge how that should come about.
Good luck!
In the short term you have no real control or influence on what goes on at school, you could ask for her to change class/school etc - the root cause issue will still be the same and the pattern will most likely continue in some other form.
You probably know what she enjoys doing, focus on these things outside school - make sure she understands she can make herself feel good about herself, do this practically. As parents, you're better placed to judge how that should come about.
Good luck!
Duke Thrust said:
ali_kat said:
Forgiving them won't change that, forgiving them achieves nothing
I fundamentally disagree - forgiveness is not an admission that their actions were acceptable, more that you are unwilling to let it bother you any further.You know nothing, now stop trolling the thread, you have nothing of help to offer the OP or anyone else contributing.
14
only child
single sex school
a toxic combination when you or youre offspring are the victim
at the Mixed GM comp I attended , one of the heads of year was well known for saying on the topic
"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
it's a power thing
only child
single sex school
a toxic combination when you or youre offspring are the victim
at the Mixed GM comp I attended , one of the heads of year was well known for saying on the topic
"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
it's a power thing
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