Daughter ostracised at school
Discussion
WestyCarl said:
ali_kat said:
Ditto, until I was cajoled into going to a reunion. Which was where they apologised. Not all together, just 1on1 when no one could see them talking to me...
Honestly I hated school. I used to get invited to various re-unions but didn't even reply. Why would I want to go back somewhere that I hated 
Bluebarge said:
Involve the school.
Look at getting her into outside interests - youth club, art group, sport, guides/explorer scouts (once you're 14 you're in the senior section so is more outward bound and less formal), cadets - anything to meet new people who aren't b
hes.
Look at moving school - even if you have to stretch to school fees for 2 years it may be worth it if it changes her environment.
Being 14 is tough and the female of the species can be way nastier than the male.
this is a good set of ideas , the advantage being that Scouting, 'military' or St John cadets , many sports are expressedly mixed gender and dance / drama stuff is not exclusively female ... Guiding however is female only and having seen them do their worst to a young male outside speaker ( some of the little darlings area Nabakovian nightmare )Look at getting her into outside interests - youth club, art group, sport, guides/explorer scouts (once you're 14 you're in the senior section so is more outward bound and less formal), cadets - anything to meet new people who aren't b
hes.Look at moving school - even if you have to stretch to school fees for 2 years it may be worth it if it changes her environment.
Being 14 is tough and the female of the species can be way nastier than the male.
I don't have any issue with this at all. I think you're right that it can be healing.
Duke Thrust said:
Apologies, do make thing better, they show remorse and regret. An acknowledgment of the pain and upset enabled my sister to realise that actually there was nothing wrong with her, it was just the other girls being truly horrible to her to make them feel better/powerful/in a gang.
I'm sorry you all feel that this is such an outrageous point of view, but an apology with true contrition is enormously healing for both parties and that can only be a good thing.
The reason I sad you're lacking emotional intelligence is this:I'm sorry you all feel that this is such an outrageous point of view, but an apology with true contrition is enormously healing for both parties and that can only be a good thing.
Duke Thrust said:
That was big of them, but not you.
Children can be awful, sadly that isn't going to change any time soon. If they've taken time to apologise and even empathise now that they have children, not to forgive is churlish and every bit as childish as their behaviour was back then.
If you can't see the problem with that post, given Ali's very frank description of the devastating effects of the bullying, then there's no point discussing it any further so I'll bow out now.Children can be awful, sadly that isn't going to change any time soon. If they've taken time to apologise and even empathise now that they have children, not to forgive is churlish and every bit as childish as their behaviour was back then.
ali_kat said:
Duke Thrust said:
ali_kat said:
Forgiving them won't change that, forgiving them achieves nothing
I fundamentally disagree - forgiveness is not an admission that their actions were acceptable, more that you are unwilling to let it bother you any further.You know nothing, now stop trolling the thread, you have nothing of help to offer the OP or anyone else contributing.
As for your other point, I think an open internet forum is a wholly inappropriate place to discuss a serious crime of that nature, so I simply chose not to.
An interesting thread, and one where my thoughts changed from one of stand up and deal with it to sympathy as to how hard this is. OP I hope the school gets this sorted.
It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
mph1977 said:
14
"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
When Mrs NW is teaching she says this exactly"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
NormalWisdom said:
mph1977 said:
14
"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
When Mrs NW is teaching she says this exactly"lads falling out i can cope with all day,every day - they generally square up try and knock seven bells out of each other and then either are best mates again or totally ignore each other - the worst i have to do is seperate them or suspend one of they really mash the other one up
girls however - they are evil the constant petty pscychological games and low levle idocoy that can go one for years does my head in "
surveyor said:
An interesting thread, and one where my thoughts changed from one of stand up and deal with it to sympathy as to how hard this is. OP I hope the school gets this sorted.
It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
that will depend on the school and the smaller the primary the harder the transition as even the most modestly sized state secondary schools are 500 ish pupils with 1000- 1500 far more typical It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
mixed or single sex plays a factor but the biggest factor is the relative size and power of the different cliques and where your child fits in that picture
Harry H said:
In the end I told my daughter to stop trying so hard and just to play it cool. At a break times to find herself a good book sit down on her own and have a read. It took a week or so but eventually another girl joined her and then another until a whole new group was formed. Turns out there were plenty of girls hanging on to the fringes of other groups equally as unhappy.
I think this is really good advice.
Duke Thrust said:
It's hardly trolling to have a different opinion; advocating forgiveness turns out to be a controversial view on PH, I'm genuinely surprised.
As for your other point, I think an open internet forum is a wholly inappropriate place to discuss a serious crime of that nature, so I simply chose not to.
You cannot preach forgiveness at me & expect me to forgive the women that have adversely affected my whole life and not the man who has also adversely affected my whole life.As for your other point, I think an open internet forum is a wholly inappropriate place to discuss a serious crime of that nature, so I simply chose not to.
Edited by ali_kat on Tuesday 3rd March 14:18
ali_kat said:
I have the girls from school on FB but apart from 3 of them, I use filters so they see very little of what I post & I have unfollowed them so I don't see their stuff. All of them have apologised to me for their behaviour, now that they have kids they understand how nasty they were. I haven't forgiven.
Just delete them. mph1977 said:
surveyor said:
An interesting thread, and one where my thoughts changed from one of stand up and deal with it to sympathy as to how hard this is. OP I hope the school gets this sorted.
It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
that will depend on the school and the smaller the primary the harder the transition as even the most modestly sized state secondary schools are 500 ish pupils with 1000- 1500 far more typical It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
mixed or single sex plays a factor but the biggest factor is the relative size and power of the different cliques and where your child fits in that picture
I too was shy, and unfortunately it didn't get me anywhere.
surveyor, i hope your daughter does not go through what I went through, and rises above it all! It hindsight, i was naive, and I paid the price for it. If I were to do it again, I would be more careful with who I started to hang with, not trust too freely to begin with and stand up for myself before it got too bad.
I did stand up to one of my bullies by year 10, and she certainly backed down after it - I realised then I wished I had done it before. It would have saved me a lot of grief.
Be there for her, make sure she tells you if there is anything amiss rather than keep it to herself, and get it nipped in the bud should anything start up, but I hope that it doesn't. I hope she gets on fine
CatfishCKY said:
mph1977 said:
surveyor said:
An interesting thread, and one where my thoughts changed from one of stand up and deal with it to sympathy as to how hard this is. OP I hope the school gets this sorted.
It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
that will depend on the school and the smaller the primary the harder the transition as even the most modestly sized state secondary schools are 500 ish pupils with 1000- 1500 far more typical It does nothing for my concern about my own daughter. She's shy, but popular at school. It is however a very small school of about 70 kids which has a completely different atmosphere to your typical larger comprehensive etc.
I fear the change up could be a huge bump in the road.
mixed or single sex plays a factor but the biggest factor is the relative size and power of the different cliques and where your child fits in that picture
I too was shy, and unfortunately it didn't get me anywhere.
surveyor, i hope your daughter does not go through what I went through, and rises above it all! It hindsight, i was naive, and I paid the price for it. If I were to do it again, I would be more careful with who I started to hang with, not trust too freely to begin with and stand up for myself before it got too bad.
I did stand up to one of my bullies by year 10, and she certainly backed down after it - I realised then I wished I had done it before. It would have saved me a lot of grief.
Be there for her, make sure she tells you if there is anything amiss rather than keep it to herself, and get it nipped in the bud should anything start up, but I hope that it doesn't. I hope she gets on fine
Regards
David
Cotty said:
Just delete them.
I fear the crux of this is in this statement. People drag themselves with them through life. Like I said my wife went through very similar to what Ali-Kat described and for years chose to let it define her, who she was, how she behaved and related to other people, she changed a lot when she hit 30 and has gradually shed a lot of what happened off but she needed help to do it, some people can, some people need help to do it, some people can't do it, some people don't want to do it. It's something that America does much better than us and they've managed to build a complete industry around "self help" which we rather unfortunately poo poo a lot of the time, it's not the worst personality trait in the world to be introspective, a little paranoid and somewhat cagey - there are worst things to be.Duke Thrust said:
ali_kat said:
Forgiving them won't change that, forgiving them achieves nothing
I fundamentally disagree - forgiveness is not an admission that their actions were acceptable, more that you are unwilling to let it bother you any further.It's like death. Can't do s
t all about it, so why concern yourself with it. Move on. No worries, David, I hope I was of some use!
ali_kat, you can of course tell me to shut up and stop probing if you don't want to talk about it further, but your distrust of females is interesting. It's completely understandable, but a different outcome to what I've seen. For my OH, the effects are entirely centred around her body image and a kind of self-hatred which goes with that, but despite the abuse being entirely perpetrated by girls I don't think she has any ill feeling against girls in general. It takes her a while to get properly close to anyone, but most of her friends are girls and I certainly wouldn't say she's less comfortable with them. She often struggles to accept compliments from anyone, not girls in particular.
Zelda mentions she has much the same feelings as you, though perhaps not as pronounced. I wonder how common it is. Perhaps it's brought by being at an all-girls school, associating a female environment with that terrible experience...I'll also weigh in on this too as I missed it before Duke Thrust got involved.
I am the same as Zelda and Ali when it comes to most other women - i struggle to trust them, and often think that there may be an ulterior motive, like to stab me in the back. Even women I know well, I still struggle to trust them fully sometimes, and am always conscious about meeting people when they are females. I grew up mainly getting on with guys, and I am still like it to this day - some guys I know since primary school, and I feel I will always get on with them. Although I feel uncomfortable in a male-orientated scenario sometimes too, when I cannot deal with the gentle mocking, teasing and general laddishness.
It might be to do with the link to an all-girls' school, but women can be horrendous out of schools too. If i am in any enviroment with other women, I always think they're judging me, dislike me for whatever reason, judging my clothes, my hair, my make-up, even what i look like. I am always conscious that I probably look the worst compared to the rest of them too.
McSam said:
CatfishCKY said:
Ali_Kat, Zelda Pinwheel - sorry to read of both your stories too, It's a relief for me to see that i was not alone - though it's not a happy relief, considering all the torment we went through.
Sorry to see more stories coming out, but as you say, there must be some kind of reassurance in seeing you're not the only one. Horrible that it happened to others, but all the same, just this short thread has shown me we're not the only ones dealing with the effects of this kind of thing. I might ask my OH to have a read of this thread, partly for that reason, but also because she may be able to give some advice for MACP's daughter's situation.ali_kat, you can of course tell me to shut up and stop probing if you don't want to talk about it further, but your distrust of females is interesting. It's completely understandable, but a different outcome to what I've seen. For my OH, the effects are entirely centred around her body image and a kind of self-hatred which goes with that, but despite the abuse being entirely perpetrated by girls I don't think she has any ill feeling against girls in general. It takes her a while to get properly close to anyone, but most of her friends are girls and I certainly wouldn't say she's less comfortable with them. She often struggles to accept compliments from anyone, not girls in particular.
Zelda mentions she has much the same feelings as you, though perhaps not as pronounced. I wonder how common it is. Perhaps it's brought by being at an all-girls school, associating a female environment with that terrible experience...
I am the same as Zelda and Ali when it comes to most other women - i struggle to trust them, and often think that there may be an ulterior motive, like to stab me in the back. Even women I know well, I still struggle to trust them fully sometimes, and am always conscious about meeting people when they are females. I grew up mainly getting on with guys, and I am still like it to this day - some guys I know since primary school, and I feel I will always get on with them. Although I feel uncomfortable in a male-orientated scenario sometimes too, when I cannot deal with the gentle mocking, teasing and general laddishness.
It might be to do with the link to an all-girls' school, but women can be horrendous out of schools too. If i am in any enviroment with other women, I always think they're judging me, dislike me for whatever reason, judging my clothes, my hair, my make-up, even what i look like. I am always conscious that I probably look the worst compared to the rest of them too.
Firstly I want to say how amazed I am by the responses received it really humbled me so thankyou to one and all.
Going back to the comments regarding striking back one of the girls told my daughter she wanted to strangle her which horrified us but no proof so we told our daughter that if it is ever said again look them in the eye and tell them to go ahead.It did happen again and she did exactly as we advised and you wont be surprised to learn the girl did nothing in response.
So we have spoken with the school and they seem to be taking positive action by moving her classes and helping to introduce her to other groups of children they know to be friendly.We were told that at least two of the "mean girls" are well known and on the hotlist.They are going to speak with the girls but I have asked how they will do that,what is the process and how will they try to prevent further issues with these pupils.So the positive is there is a plan.
What makes me sad as another poster said this should be some of the best years.All she wants is a kind word and somebody she can swap makeup and clothing ideas with and all that other teenage girly stuff.
Going back to the comments regarding striking back one of the girls told my daughter she wanted to strangle her which horrified us but no proof so we told our daughter that if it is ever said again look them in the eye and tell them to go ahead.It did happen again and she did exactly as we advised and you wont be surprised to learn the girl did nothing in response.
So we have spoken with the school and they seem to be taking positive action by moving her classes and helping to introduce her to other groups of children they know to be friendly.We were told that at least two of the "mean girls" are well known and on the hotlist.They are going to speak with the girls but I have asked how they will do that,what is the process and how will they try to prevent further issues with these pupils.So the positive is there is a plan.
What makes me sad as another poster said this should be some of the best years.All she wants is a kind word and somebody she can swap makeup and clothing ideas with and all that other teenage girly stuff.
Thanks for the update macp, much appreciated.
Sound utterly awful about one of the girls wanting to strangle your daughter, but kudos to you - she did what you asked of her, and it had the right effect. usually it will be the case - they're often mouth and no action.
It's a relief to hear that the school are taking your concerns seriously, and doing what they can to help your daughter. I hope the two mean girls get wht is coming to them, and get expelled at least! it would be interesting to know what actions they do take.
The school year should be exactly what you describe, for the most part Swapping ideas about what to wear, talking about boys and getting through the maelstrom of hormones that is secondary school and teenage years.
I hope she finds some new, true, decent friends so she can do all that before college
Sound utterly awful about one of the girls wanting to strangle your daughter, but kudos to you - she did what you asked of her, and it had the right effect. usually it will be the case - they're often mouth and no action.
It's a relief to hear that the school are taking your concerns seriously, and doing what they can to help your daughter. I hope the two mean girls get wht is coming to them, and get expelled at least! it would be interesting to know what actions they do take.
The school year should be exactly what you describe, for the most part
Swapping ideas about what to wear, talking about boys and getting through the maelstrom of hormones that is secondary school and teenage years. I hope she finds some new, true, decent friends so she can do all that before college
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