Suicidal Thread

[Timmy40]

I've just been reading that every week about 100 men kill themselves, mostly men in there 40's. And not just hopeless cases, often outwardly successful and happy men. As someone right in the middle of that demographic and fitting a lot of the criteria, I frankly can see why men do it, and why it's 4 times more likely men will commit suicide than women.

I wouldn't be surprised is the figures aren't actually understating the true carnage as I think man often make it look like an accident, or what they do could be construed as accidental e.g. down a bottle of whisky with a large dose of coke.

It's a terrible state of affairs though, and one which to be honest were the gender balance reversed would be getting massive attention and huge amounts of funding to try and tackle.

Anyway, as the song goes suicide is painless, it's brings on lots of changes.

[Sump]

Being successful and happy on the outside is literally just that. It has no correlation to being happy and not hating yourself on the inside.

It's two separate entities.

[Monkeylegend]

I blame the divorce courts and what was the CSA.

[2013BRM]

Monkeylegend said:

I blame the divorce courts and what was the CSA.

amen brother

[Kiltie]

Panorama at 20:30 this evening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05rcrx0

For me, there's a link with our reluctance / inability to speak about mental health.

Indeed, I can't help wondering if the Alps air crash might have been avoided if the apparent stigma didn't exist.

[GT03ROB]

Society & the media play their part. The man in his 40s should almost be the PH sterotype...

.... successful in their career, with a 6 figure salary, beautiful wife, perfect family, nice big house, new cars, skiing in the winter, Mediterranean in the summer, works 9-5, well built, handsome, fit, spend time with the family, always smiling, etc., etc..

The reality for most is the complete opposite. Struggling financially (huge debts trying to live the sterotype), wife whose gone to seed (or if she hasn't is having an affair), grotty little kids, can barely afford a cheap holiday in Spain, balding, fat, working 12hrs a day in a dead end job paying 35k...all that & nothing to look forward to except 20 further years of the same until he can retire on peanuts.

In the 40s the gap between the dream & reality hits home.

[blindswelledrat]

I'd be curious to see what the rates of men vs women taking anti-depressants are. I strongly suspect the answer lies in mens inability to acknowledge depression and similar.

[theguvernor]

Kiltie said:

Panorama at 20:30 this evening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05rcrx0

For me, there's a link with our reluctance / inability to speak about mental health.

Indeed, I can't help wondering if the Alps air crash might have been avoided if the apparent stigma didn't exist.

Honestly, going & speaking to a therapist has helped me wonders, i was depressed, angry all the time & didn't really realise it, i had a lovely girlfriend, a healthy little boy, i'd just got into a negative cycle, by being like this & blaming everyone else & not admitting my problems i drove away the love of my life.
It wasn't until the start of this year after 6 months of being like this i took myself to see a therapist, it was due to some childhood stuff (she thinks), that i was like i was, suppressing everything, essentially it gets to a point, where you explode & have a monumental breakdown, i suffered in silence, i wouldn't talk or show emotions & in doing so i pushed away the only person i honestly felt in love with. She said i was suffering from depression & anxiety, talking about everything helped a hell of a lot, i did get really low at one point & seriously considered trying to end it all!
If you feel st, just make a call, go & see someone, it won't change overnight, but seeing a therapist for a few months was the best thing i ever did, i don't feel like i have such a weight on my shoulders anymore.

[Tallow]

theguvernor said:

Honestly, going & speaking to a therapist has helped me wonders, i was depressed, angry all the time & didn't really realise it, i had a lovely girlfriend, a healthy little boy, i'd just got into a negative cycle, by being like this & blaming everyone else & not admitting my problems i drove away the love of my life.
It wasn't until the start of this year after 6 months of being like this i took myself to see a therapist, it was due to some childhood stuff (she thinks), that i was like i was, suppressing everything, essentially it gets to a point, where you explode & have a monumental breakdown, i suffered in silence, i wouldn't talk or show emotions & in doing so i pushed away the only person i honestly felt in love with. She said i was suffering from depression & anxiety, talking about everything helped a hell of a lot, i did get really low at one point & seriously considered trying to end it all!
If you feel st, just make a call, go & see someone, it won't change overnight, but seeing a therapist for a few months was the best thing i ever did, i don't feel like i have such a weight on my shoulders anymore.

Sage advice. I hope that one day soon we will start to move to a culture where mental/emotional illness is viewed as just as much a treatable and common thing as physical illness. I'm convinced that the stats for depression are inaccurate just because there are so many more unreported cases. Life is hard sometimes, and many, if not most, people need support and guidance to find a healthy way through that.

[twing]

Monkeylegend said:

I blame the divorce courts and what was the CSA.

+100

[soad]

Double shooting: husband killed wife after battle against gypsy camp
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11030...

[HTP99]

I think there is far too much pressure on men to provide and live up to a certain ideal; glamarous and high maintenance wife, 3 kids who must have the best of everything, new and expensive cars, big house, 2 holidays a year etc.

Either the man works all hours god sends to achieve it all and then hits burn out, or everything is financed to the hilt until the finances can be juggled no more and they are in danger of losing everything.

There is a huge proportion of people out there who are just not happy with their lot in life and will use all means to give off the impression that everything is better than it really is, finally with it coming to a head.

Also men wont talk about their problems unlike women, male friends don't talk about that kind of thing, they talk sport, getting drunk, women etc, whereas women do talk to each other about their problems.

[MarvGTI]

Interesting thread.

I can confirm, from personal experience, that men are certainly less inclined to 'get help, ie therapy and/or meds.

It took me personally a long while to get some, after losing the love of my life and my child, my house, 2 jobs within 2 years due to being unable to cope with depression (sick leave, mentally and emotionally absent and closed off, unable to concentrate and work under stress - I was in automobile sales so you can imagine how this affected my work) but when I did, even spending 3 months in a mental health clinic last year, it gave way to a brief glimpse that maybe suicide isn't the final solution.

I still can't get or hold a job and have since lost my appartment and income, so am now technically homeless and living temporarily with my girlfriend abroad until I can get back on my feet hopefully sooner than later.

I can understand why men are more at risk of committing suicide than women - and not meaning to sound sexist but I am sure had I been a woman, society wouldn't have dropped me like a piece of s**t (at least not where I come from).

I'd like to add, simply for fairness, that the expectations of men, very well enunciated a few posts above, have a female counterpart. Even though we place a whole lot of importance on gender equality, it is still the case in most families that the husband provides and the wife stays at home looking after the house and kids. No doubt this'll change in the next 10 years but it hasn't happened yet. And being a stay at home mother and housewife brings its own set of stress, equal to the one the husband might feel. And with that stress come its own set of stress-related (mental) health issues.

Also, men (moreso than women) often seek and find solace in alcohol rather than therapy and antidepressants, which often gives us the courage to do things we wouldn't normally.

[steveatesh]

Interesting topic OP and one which highlights how in our society men are disposable while women are not. There's a lot about it in the literature, but for example, the recent debate about whether women should serve on the frontline was met by one senior figure claiming that society would not like to see all the women being brought back in body bags, implying that it is ok for men to die.

And the well known campaign in USA " a mans got to do what a mans got to do" to encourage men to join the armed forces.

I look forewarn to the day the feminist movement ( which of course is all about equality) campaigns for an equality in the suicide rates.

[TTmonkey]

I read this too... hence my thread that I've just opened.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I hadn't been aware of this thread when I wrote that.

[Timmy40]

I wonder what the stats are on attempts though? I would imagine women make more attempts but are a bit crap at seeing it through whereas men in all probability once they decide they are going to do it, do it properly and see it through. So perhaps it's more even than the death figures suggest?

[fido]

Timmy40 said:

I would imagine women make more attempts but are a bit crap at seeing it through whereas men in all probability once they decide they are going to do it, do it properly and see it through.

This is all pure conjecture, but I don't believe this to be the case - perhaps even the opposite - once they've made up their mind then a woman or man will follow it through with equal success.

[Timmy40]

fido said:

Timmy40 said:

I would imagine women make more attempts but are a bit crap at seeing it through whereas men in all probability once they decide they are going to do it, do it properly and see it through.

This is all pure conjecture, but I don't believe this to be the case - perhaps even the opposite - once they've made up their mind then a woman or man will follow it through with equal success.

Partly conjecture, without time to do proper research it's hard to say. I did find one study from a Hospital in Oxford that shows female incidences of self harm ( attempted suicide ) to be running at roughly 1.3 times that of Men, but the number of male fatalities runs 4 times higher than for females. Which would seem to imply that 1) overall fewer men are attempting suicide, but 2) when they do they are far more 'successful' in achieving their aim.

[Impasse]

Timmy40 said:

Partly conjecture, without time to do proper research it's hard to say. I did find one study from a Hospital in Oxford that shows female incidences of self harm ( attempted suicide ) to be running at roughly 1.3 times that of Men, but the number of male fatalities runs 4 times higher than for females. Which would seem to imply that 1) overall fewer men are attempting suicide, but 2) when they do they are far more 'successful' in achieving their aim.

Self harm isn't necessarily a suicide attempt so the stats may not be accurate, or at least interpreted to their true meaning.

[andy-xr]

Timmy40 said:

self harm ( attempted suicide )

Just to point out that these two are separate, self harm isnt always a cry for help, nor is it an attempt. It was explained to me with cutting as an example, that the focus on the cut, the adrenaline rush, it takes away a lot of other things and focuses the mind towards that one particular thing you've done, in a way supressing. It's not that you're trying to kll yourself, though that can be a byproduct or accidental part of it for many