Suicidal Thread
Discussion
GT03ROB said:
Society & the media play their part. The man in his 40s should almost be the PH sterotype...
.... successful in their career, with a 6 figure salary, beautiful wife, perfect family, nice big house, new cars, skiing in the winter, Mediterranean in the summer, works 9-5, well built, handsome, fit, spend time with the family, always smiling, etc., etc..
The reality for most is the complete opposite. Struggling financially (huge debts trying to live the sterotype), wife whose gone to seed (or if she hasn't is having an affair), grotty little kids, can barely afford a cheap holiday in Spain, balding, fat, working 12hrs a day in a dead end job paying 35k...all that & nothing to look forward to except 20 further years of the same until he can retire on peanuts.
In the 40s the gap between the dream & reality hits home.
Is the point that people have a narrow and skewed view of what to be successful in life actually is? If being successful means you have money and can afford to buy more stuff to keep up with the Jones then no wonder people are killing themselves. The dream is the problem. It's like eating junk food and constantly being hungry. Your soul lacks nourishment. .... successful in their career, with a 6 figure salary, beautiful wife, perfect family, nice big house, new cars, skiing in the winter, Mediterranean in the summer, works 9-5, well built, handsome, fit, spend time with the family, always smiling, etc., etc..
The reality for most is the complete opposite. Struggling financially (huge debts trying to live the sterotype), wife whose gone to seed (or if she hasn't is having an affair), grotty little kids, can barely afford a cheap holiday in Spain, balding, fat, working 12hrs a day in a dead end job paying 35k...all that & nothing to look forward to except 20 further years of the same until he can retire on peanuts.
In the 40s the gap between the dream & reality hits home.
The important thing is to find balance and do things that you enjoy and make you feel satisfied as a human. Love, exercise, make stuff, relationships, whatever, but don't go around being a slave to advertising and other peoples idea of what you ought to be.
Impasse said:
Timmy40 said:
Partly conjecture, without time to do proper research it's hard to say. I did find one study from a Hospital in Oxford that shows female incidences of self harm ( attempted suicide ) to be running at roughly 1.3 times that of Men, but the number of male fatalities runs 4 times higher than for females. Which would seem to imply that 1) overall fewer men are attempting suicide, but 2) when they do they are far more 'successful' in achieving their aim.
Self harm isn't necessarily a suicide attempt so the stats may not be accurate, or at least interpreted to their true meaning.HTP99 said:
I think there is far too much pressure on men to provide and live up to a certain ideal; glamarous and high maintenance wife, 3 kids who must have the best of everything, new and expensive cars, big house, 2 holidays a year etc.
Either the man works all hours god sends to achieve it all and then hits burn out, or everything is financed to the hilt until the finances can be juggled no more and they are in danger of losing everything.
There is a huge proportion of people out there who are just not happy with their lot in life and will use all means to give off the impression that everything is better than it really is, finally with it coming to a head.
That's all in your head though. It's all about image and perception. It's not real. Either the man works all hours god sends to achieve it all and then hits burn out, or everything is financed to the hilt until the finances can be juggled no more and they are in danger of losing everything.
There is a huge proportion of people out there who are just not happy with their lot in life and will use all means to give off the impression that everything is better than it really is, finally with it coming to a head.
Why not try to not give a f
k about other people's lives and what they think about you. Find things you like and do them, have hobbies, do more exercise, eat healthy food, change your job. Move to an area you prefer. It's all about taking control of your life. Don't just drift through life being unhappy or unsatisfied. I don't give a s
t if other people have more stuff than me. It's a pretty hollow and empty life if you are defined by your possessions. Some people are simply shallow and boring, all they want is to have more stuff and to show off. If you know people like that, don't hang around with them. Don't marry some grasping harpie that will make you feel misserable because she wants to have more than her friends. el stovey said:
The important thing is to find balance and do things that you enjoy and make you feel satisfied as a human. Love, exercise, make stuff, relationships, whatever, but don't go around being a slave to advertising and other peoples idea of what you ought to be.
Which can be difficult to achieve even if you know and understand what genuinely makes you content.I know my mental health suffers if I don't exercise, specifically run, preferably in the hills and mountains. My OH knows it too and yet we still find it difficult for me to fit in running around work and family life. Knowing what you need to do is a great step, but then finding the balance (as you say) to implement the change is not necessarily an easy next step.
It's taken me 3-4 years to find the right balance again after our daughter was born. My OH started a new job a couple of months ago and that balance has now gone again. Not completely but I (we) need to re-balance around the changed demands of our life.
On the "taboo" nature of man discussing this, I put a philosophical post on Facebook about how life was difficult to balance. It has been interesting to see the responses. Some "likes" with no comment, a few "I know what you mean" comments and one "That's life, deal with it! Stop moaning!" response. I asked why I should portray a 100% happy persona on Facebook and the "stop moaning" comment was withdrawn. Facebook is only visible to family and friends so why shouldn't someone say how they genuinely feel? Do family/friends feel threatened by expressions of dissatisfaction? Does anyone genuinely believe others are really 100% happy all the time?
If we can get past the idea that we need to appear happy and healthy at all times, regardless of the truth, we might start making some progress.
el stovey said:
HTP99 said:
I think there is far too much pressure on men to provide and live up to a certain ideal; glamarous and high maintenance wife, 3 kids who must have the best of everything, new and expensive cars, big house, 2 holidays a year etc.
Either the man works all hours god sends to achieve it all and then hits burn out, or everything is financed to the hilt until the finances can be juggled no more and they are in danger of losing everything.
There is a huge proportion of people out there who are just not happy with their lot in life and will use all means to give off the impression that everything is better than it really is, finally with it coming to a head.
That's all in your head though. It's all about image and perception. It's not real. Either the man works all hours god sends to achieve it all and then hits burn out, or everything is financed to the hilt until the finances can be juggled no more and they are in danger of losing everything.
There is a huge proportion of people out there who are just not happy with their lot in life and will use all means to give off the impression that everything is better than it really is, finally with it coming to a head.
Why not try to not give a f
k about other people's lives and what they think about you. Find things you like and do them, have hobbies, do more exercise, eat healthy food, change your job. Move to an area you prefer. It's all about taking control of your life. Don't just drift through life being unhappy or unsatisfied. I don't give a s
t if other people have more stuff than me. It's a pretty hollow and empty life if you are defined by your possessions. Some people are simply shallow and boring, all they want is to have more stuff and to show off. If you know people like that, don't hang around with them. Don't marry some grasping harpie that will make you feel misserable because she wants to have more than her friends. Ewenm, you like me, love running. I find it quite spiritual and the endorphins it gives me get me through the day much better than if I don't. If I can't run, I do other exercise like swimming or riding my bike. I read your posts about running and they inspire people to take it up or run a bit faster. I definitely view you as one of the optimistic posters on here. I've gone running after reading stuff you've written when I couldn't be arsed and was about to eat some chocolate instead.
Other people get the same dopamine through other activities. I also get it through drawing or painting. It's doing stuff where you are in flow or in the zone. I suppose meditation or even prayer might give similar results to others. You know yourself, it only takes a short time to go for a run. Even if you only have half an hour you can do some tempo or interval stuff. It's about being proactive and taking charge isn't it?
You talk about Facebook, loads of people just go there to boast and create an illusion of how great they are. It can make others feel inadequate when all they see are others doing awesome stuff. What's the answer? Well you could not go on it or delete people that annoy you with their boasting, I tend to only post when I see or want to share something funny or when I've done something stupid that others might laugh at. Nobody wants to read posts where someone is just trying to make out they are fantastic. We all have worries and problems, most people share similar pre disposed levels of happiness.
Other people get the same dopamine through other activities. I also get it through drawing or painting. It's doing stuff where you are in flow or in the zone. I suppose meditation or even prayer might give similar results to others. You know yourself, it only takes a short time to go for a run. Even if you only have half an hour you can do some tempo or interval stuff. It's about being proactive and taking charge isn't it?
You talk about Facebook, loads of people just go there to boast and create an illusion of how great they are. It can make others feel inadequate when all they see are others doing awesome stuff. What's the answer? Well you could not go on it or delete people that annoy you with their boasting, I tend to only post when I see or want to share something funny or when I've done something stupid that others might laugh at. Nobody wants to read posts where someone is just trying to make out they are fantastic. We all have worries and problems, most people share similar pre disposed levels of happiness.
I read the book about Robert Enke & depression recently. Very good read and a real eye opener eye opener. I'd recommend it to anyone
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/8792439/...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/8792439/...
el stovey said:
Ewenm, you like me, love running. I find it quite spiritual and the endorphins it gives me get me through the day much better than if I don't. If I can't run, I do other exercise like swimming or riding my bike. I read your posts about running and they inspire people to take it up or run a bit faster. I definitely view you as one of the optimistic posters on here. I've gone running after reading stuff you've written when I couldn't be arsed and was about to eat some chocolate instead.
Other people get the same dopamine through other activities. I also get it through drawing or painting. It's doing stuff where you are in flow or in the zone. I suppose meditation or even prayer might give similar results to others. You know yourself, it only takes a short time to go for a run. Even if you only have half an hour you can do some tempo or interval stuff. It's about being proactive and taking charge isn't it?
You talk about Facebook, loads of people just go there to boast and create an illusion of how great they are. It can make others feel inadequate when all they see are others doing awesome stuff. What's the answer? Well you could not go on it or delete people that annoy you with their boasting, I tend to only post when I see or want to share something funny or when I've done something stupid that others might laugh at. Nobody wants to read posts where someone is just trying to make out they are fantastic. We all have worries and problems, most people share similar pre disposed levels of happiness.
It's absolutely about taking charge of your life and I'm fairly good at finding my own balance that keeps me content without being too selfish. I find myself culling my connections on social media fairly often, usually based on garbage posted. I was just interested that even within a family and friends group there were still people thinking a MTFU response was most appropriate. To me it indicates how culturally strong that response is, the idea that if an outwardly-successful man posts a philosophical status they need to "snap out of it", or similar. The same person wouldn't have dreamed of putting that on a similar post from my OH.Other people get the same dopamine through other activities. I also get it through drawing or painting. It's doing stuff where you are in flow or in the zone. I suppose meditation or even prayer might give similar results to others. You know yourself, it only takes a short time to go for a run. Even if you only have half an hour you can do some tempo or interval stuff. It's about being proactive and taking charge isn't it?
You talk about Facebook, loads of people just go there to boast and create an illusion of how great they are. It can make others feel inadequate when all they see are others doing awesome stuff. What's the answer? Well you could not go on it or delete people that annoy you with their boasting, I tend to only post when I see or want to share something funny or when I've done something stupid that others might laugh at. Nobody wants to read posts where someone is just trying to make out they are fantastic. We all have worries and problems, most people share similar pre disposed levels of happiness.
I'm fortunate. I know what I need, so it's just a case of ensuring I prioritise it enough.
MonkeyMatt said:
If one finds themselves on this downward spiral of depresion who do they actually speak too? many men (and women) find it dificult to discuss this type of thing and wouldnt dream of going to the doctors and end up suffering in silence!
Samaritans or one of the other mental health charities are an option.Or if you have the means, try http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/ to find a private counsellor in your area and go from there.
RizzoTheRat said:
Over 6000 suicides in the UK every year, compared with 1700 deaths on British roads. How much money is spent on mental health and support compared to the money spent on road safety campaigns I wonder?
That is a bloody good question. Saving lives on the road is sexy, attracts lots of pressure groups and deemed to be politically popular.Preventing suicide has none of the attraction of the above, so is largely ignored, and the victim and their families quietly marginalised.
Shameful.
It's a quick and effective fix to problems that are otherwise considered either too hard or pointless trying to remedy. I don't know an awful lot about it but I think men are more likely to bail out of life than women, women having more willpower, experience and motivation to battle the pain and anguish life can bring.
el stovey said:
GT03ROB said:
Society & the media play their part. The man in his 40s should almost be the PH sterotype...
.... successful in their career, with a 6 figure salary, beautiful wife, perfect family, nice big house, new cars, skiing in the winter, Mediterranean in the summer, works 9-5, well built, handsome, fit, spend time with the family, always smiling, etc., etc..
The reality for most is the complete opposite. Struggling financially (huge debts trying to live the sterotype), wife whose gone to seed (or if she hasn't is having an affair), grotty little kids, can barely afford a cheap holiday in Spain, balding, fat, working 12hrs a day in a dead end job paying 35k...all that & nothing to look forward to except 20 further years of the same until he can retire on peanuts.
In the 40s the gap between the dream & reality hits home.
Is the point that people have a narrow and skewed view of what to be successful in life actually is? If being successful means you have money and can afford to buy more stuff to keep up with the Jones then no wonder people are killing themselves. The dream is the problem. It's like eating junk food and constantly being hungry. Your soul lacks nourishment. .... successful in their career, with a 6 figure salary, beautiful wife, perfect family, nice big house, new cars, skiing in the winter, Mediterranean in the summer, works 9-5, well built, handsome, fit, spend time with the family, always smiling, etc., etc..
The reality for most is the complete opposite. Struggling financially (huge debts trying to live the sterotype), wife whose gone to seed (or if she hasn't is having an affair), grotty little kids, can barely afford a cheap holiday in Spain, balding, fat, working 12hrs a day in a dead end job paying 35k...all that & nothing to look forward to except 20 further years of the same until he can retire on peanuts.
In the 40s the gap between the dream & reality hits home.
The important thing is to find balance and do things that you enjoy and make you feel satisfied as a human. Love, exercise, make stuff, relationships, whatever, but don't go around being a slave to advertising and other peoples idea of what you ought to be.
ewenm said:
MonkeyMatt said:
If one finds themselves on this downward spiral of depresion who do they actually speak too? many men (and women) find it dificult to discuss this type of thing and wouldnt dream of going to the doctors and end up suffering in silence!
Samaritans or one of the other mental health charities are an option.In my 20s I made a determined attempt to top myself, which resulted in months laying in a specialist unit while they fixed me. As far as I was concerned it was a rational decision, spoiled by poor planning.
My point is, you don't necessarily see it as a mental health issue.
Kiltie said:
Here's the article to go with tonight's programme: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32231774I'm not sure if this stat from the text is meaningful or not: "We think that most people who die by suicide have a mental illness but less than 5% of people with a mental illness take their own lives."
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