a discussion about ageing parents and death.
Discussion
dmn - I know I have read your story before but can you remind me how long ago your wife passed away, if you don't mind?
Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
Edited by pincher on Friday 3rd July 12:35
pincher said:
dmn - I know I have read your story before but can you remind me how long ago your wife passed away, if you don't mind?
Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
4 and a half years ago - I know.. time goes in the blink of an eye.Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
Edited by pincher on Friday 3rd July 12:35
Granville said:
briangriffin said:
What if you don't really get along with your parents though?
Fell out with my mother a couple of years ago, father used to sneak around ringing my and my brother but she caught him out a few times and think she gave him an ultimatum 'them or me',
she more than likely did as when i tried to reason with her over the falling out issues she basically said 'I'll take him for everything i can get' when i let slip that we had given him fathers day cards which he'd lied to her about.
I sort of expect a phone call in the coming years informing that one of them is ill, and perhaps along the lines of try speak to her before she goes but in all honestly i think she'd take her stubbornness, jealousy and grudge to the grave rather than apologise to us.
Worries me that my dad may go though and i'd have to attend his funeral with her there..... not sure how i'd cope with that.
sorry a bit of a different tilt to the discussions with parents and the end game that everyone else has had....
I know what slant you're coming from. Can't remember last time I saw my father, some 20 odd years ago briefly and that was the first time in 18 years. I had nothing to say to him, he's just a stranger to me whose face I know.Fell out with my mother a couple of years ago, father used to sneak around ringing my and my brother but she caught him out a few times and think she gave him an ultimatum 'them or me',
she more than likely did as when i tried to reason with her over the falling out issues she basically said 'I'll take him for everything i can get' when i let slip that we had given him fathers day cards which he'd lied to her about.
I sort of expect a phone call in the coming years informing that one of them is ill, and perhaps along the lines of try speak to her before she goes but in all honestly i think she'd take her stubbornness, jealousy and grudge to the grave rather than apologise to us.
Worries me that my dad may go though and i'd have to attend his funeral with her there..... not sure how i'd cope with that.
sorry a bit of a different tilt to the discussions with parents and the end game that everyone else has had....
I've never been close to my mother, my nan (her mother) practically brought me up before I was old enough to do it myself, and nan died years ago. I had (yet another) falling out with my mother maybe 10 years ago, she yet again disowned me / wish she'd never had me and we left it at that.
As of today, she still doesn't want to know me, nor meet her grandson. I'm really not sure how I'll feel when that inevitable phone call comes saying she had gone. In one sense I've already lost my mum, or perhaps I never had one to loose?
I'm in my forties, both parents dead,and I know I'll always feel that I never added anything to their lives - was never good enough, never worth having.
There's that saying, that it's easier to build strong children than fix broken adults - well I'm the proof of that and I've been to all the menders and had all the treatments.
And at the end of it I write this feeling guilty for being whiny and self-pitying - but I know - inside - that's the job they did on me.
I wish they weren't dead. Not because I miss them as people. Because now, the fantasy I held onto throughout my life, the fantasy of one day being normal and having a 'good' 'happy' family is finally gone and can never be. Hope really is the last thing to die.
With their deaths I mourn the loss of the possibility of the family life I yearned for - as long as they were alive, there was always a chance of redemption - this is what broken kids hang onto - now I know my parents will never be the parents I dreamed of.
My folks had me a bit later than many, being 31 when mum had me.
I am 33 now and dads 67, mum 64, and we are at the "When do i get the house" jokes stage, and we could still have 20+ years left.
Fiancee's grandparents are 92 and still pretty with it, but one is weelchair bound mostly and the other is going blind.
we have our wedding nect year and i do worry if her grandparents may die before the day, its a little thought in my head, but it would have her in bits
However my old man surprised me last year with a trip out to the graveyard to show me the 2 plots he had bought, mum didnt want to know about it so dad showed me, being an only child, when they do go, im not sure how ill take it, but by then i will hopefully have my own kids who will be almost grown up, so i wont be 'on my own'
Its a scary thing to dwell on, but also, you have to prepare for it. Thankfully they both seem in great health, as my dads parents died when they were both 70, so i was always terrified of my folks dying at 70, but thats only 3 years away for dad and he could pass for 55, so im less paranoid than i was when i was younger.
I am 33 now and dads 67, mum 64, and we are at the "When do i get the house" jokes stage, and we could still have 20+ years left.
Fiancee's grandparents are 92 and still pretty with it, but one is weelchair bound mostly and the other is going blind.
we have our wedding nect year and i do worry if her grandparents may die before the day, its a little thought in my head, but it would have her in bits
However my old man surprised me last year with a trip out to the graveyard to show me the 2 plots he had bought, mum didnt want to know about it so dad showed me, being an only child, when they do go, im not sure how ill take it, but by then i will hopefully have my own kids who will be almost grown up, so i wont be 'on my own'
Its a scary thing to dwell on, but also, you have to prepare for it. Thankfully they both seem in great health, as my dads parents died when they were both 70, so i was always terrified of my folks dying at 70, but thats only 3 years away for dad and he could pass for 55, so im less paranoid than i was when i was younger.
My parents are 86 and mum is 80 this week. To be honest there quality of life is not good as they have given up. No matter what we do they look forward to nothing at all.
We are going out this weekend for a meal with the rest of the family and we might as well not bother for the response you get.
My dad has Parkinsons and my mum does get the brunt, but will not accept help. They think they have had a good innings and what will be will be now. Their affairs are in order in the main.
We have had discussion as the what they want funeral etc so we know what the end will mean.
If dad goes first mum may change, but I doubt it if mum goes first he will have to go into care sadly as he cannot cope.
It almost seems unfair that medically we can keep him going, but if he had been asked before he would not want this to be his ending memories for us all. someone else said they found having to help his dad out of the bath hard, I found it worse when I had to shower mine after he had an accident due to not being able to find his way out of our spare room. Heart breaking but I love him too much to object to anything for him or mum.
what is vital for people to live a long time is to be interested, to feel wanted, and be part of something worth being part of.
I am 57 and my affairs are in order and wishes known as are my wifes, it is unfair to leave things to our daughter as no one knows when the grime reaper will swing his scythe our way.
We are going out this weekend for a meal with the rest of the family and we might as well not bother for the response you get.
My dad has Parkinsons and my mum does get the brunt, but will not accept help. They think they have had a good innings and what will be will be now. Their affairs are in order in the main.
We have had discussion as the what they want funeral etc so we know what the end will mean.
If dad goes first mum may change, but I doubt it if mum goes first he will have to go into care sadly as he cannot cope.
It almost seems unfair that medically we can keep him going, but if he had been asked before he would not want this to be his ending memories for us all. someone else said they found having to help his dad out of the bath hard, I found it worse when I had to shower mine after he had an accident due to not being able to find his way out of our spare room. Heart breaking but I love him too much to object to anything for him or mum.
what is vital for people to live a long time is to be interested, to feel wanted, and be part of something worth being part of.
I am 57 and my affairs are in order and wishes known as are my wifes, it is unfair to leave things to our daughter as no one knows when the grime reaper will swing his scythe our way.
spaximus said:
My parents are 86 and mum is 80 this week. To be honest there quality of life is not good as they have given up. No matter what we do they look forward to nothing at all.
We are going out this weekend for a meal with the rest of the family and we might as well not bother for the response you get.
My dad has Parkinsons and my mum does get the brunt, but will not accept help. They think they have had a good innings and what will be will be now. Their affairs are in order in the main.
We have had discussion as the what they want funeral etc so we know what the end will mean.
If dad goes first mum may change, but I doubt it if mum goes first he will have to go into care sadly as he cannot cope.
It almost seems unfair that medically we can keep him going, but if he had been asked before he would not want this to be his ending memories for us all. someone else said they found having to help his dad out of the bath hard, I found it worse when I had to shower mine after he had an accident due to not being able to find his way out of our spare room. Heart breaking but I love him too much to object to anything for him or mum.
what is vital for people to live a long time is to be interested, to feel wanted, and be part of something worth being part of.
I am 57 and my affairs are in order and wishes known as are my wifes, it is unfair to leave things to our daughter as no one knows when the grime reaper will swing his scythe our way.
My sympathies. Their situation sounds very much like my parents, Dad diagnosed with Parkinsons aged 74 and Mum full time carer for six years. After he died we thought (hoped) she would start to rebuild her own life but she just faded away and was dead herself within two years.We are going out this weekend for a meal with the rest of the family and we might as well not bother for the response you get.
My dad has Parkinsons and my mum does get the brunt, but will not accept help. They think they have had a good innings and what will be will be now. Their affairs are in order in the main.
We have had discussion as the what they want funeral etc so we know what the end will mean.
If dad goes first mum may change, but I doubt it if mum goes first he will have to go into care sadly as he cannot cope.
It almost seems unfair that medically we can keep him going, but if he had been asked before he would not want this to be his ending memories for us all. someone else said they found having to help his dad out of the bath hard, I found it worse when I had to shower mine after he had an accident due to not being able to find his way out of our spare room. Heart breaking but I love him too much to object to anything for him or mum.
what is vital for people to live a long time is to be interested, to feel wanted, and be part of something worth being part of.
I am 57 and my affairs are in order and wishes known as are my wifes, it is unfair to leave things to our daughter as no one knows when the grime reaper will swing his scythe our way.
footnote said:
Granville said:
briangriffin said:
What if you don't really get along with your parents though?
Fell out with my mother a couple of years ago, father used to sneak around ringing my and my brother but she caught him out a few times and think she gave him an ultimatum 'them or me',
she more than likely did as when i tried to reason with her over the falling out issues she basically said 'I'll take him for everything i can get' when i let slip that we had given him fathers day cards which he'd lied to her about.
I sort of expect a phone call in the coming years informing that one of them is ill, and perhaps along the lines of try speak to her before she goes but in all honestly i think she'd take her stubbornness, jealousy and grudge to the grave rather than apologise to us.
Worries me that my dad may go though and i'd have to attend his funeral with her there..... not sure how i'd cope with that.
sorry a bit of a different tilt to the discussions with parents and the end game that everyone else has had....
I know what slant you're coming from. Can't remember last time I saw my father, some 20 odd years ago briefly and that was the first time in 18 years. I had nothing to say to him, he's just a stranger to me whose face I know.Fell out with my mother a couple of years ago, father used to sneak around ringing my and my brother but she caught him out a few times and think she gave him an ultimatum 'them or me',
she more than likely did as when i tried to reason with her over the falling out issues she basically said 'I'll take him for everything i can get' when i let slip that we had given him fathers day cards which he'd lied to her about.
I sort of expect a phone call in the coming years informing that one of them is ill, and perhaps along the lines of try speak to her before she goes but in all honestly i think she'd take her stubbornness, jealousy and grudge to the grave rather than apologise to us.
Worries me that my dad may go though and i'd have to attend his funeral with her there..... not sure how i'd cope with that.
sorry a bit of a different tilt to the discussions with parents and the end game that everyone else has had....
I've never been close to my mother, my nan (her mother) practically brought me up before I was old enough to do it myself, and nan died years ago. I had (yet another) falling out with my mother maybe 10 years ago, she yet again disowned me / wish she'd never had me and we left it at that.
As of today, she still doesn't want to know me, nor meet her grandson. I'm really not sure how I'll feel when that inevitable phone call comes saying she had gone. In one sense I've already lost my mum, or perhaps I never had one to loose?
I'm in my forties, both parents dead,and I know I'll always feel that I never added anything to their lives - was never good enough, never worth having.
There's that saying, that it's easier to build strong children than fix broken adults - well I'm the proof of that and I've been to all the menders and had all the treatments.
And at the end of it I write this feeling guilty for being whiny and self-pitying - but I know - inside - that's the job they did on me.
I wish they weren't dead. Not because I miss them as people. Because now, the fantasy I held onto throughout my life, the fantasy of one day being normal and having a 'good' 'happy' family is finally gone and can never be. Hope really is the last thing to die.
With their deaths I mourn the loss of the possibility of the family life I yearned for - as long as they were alive, there was always a chance of redemption - this is what broken kids hang onto - now I know my parents will never be the parents I dreamed of.
The family life I yearned for, I promised I'd give my son. He's three in a few weeks time. That isn't going to happen, we're a one parent family now. One thing I will ensure he gets is a Mummy that loves him and will always be there for him.
drivin_me_nuts said:
pincher said:
dmn - I know I have read your story before but can you remind me how long ago your wife passed away, if you don't mind?
Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
4 and a half years ago - I know.. time goes in the blink of an eye.Morningside - I know that everything is still terribly raw for you right now but trust me, it does get 'better' - 2 years for me at the end of this month and then what would have been her 45th birthday shortly after, swiftly followed by mine. I still miss her every single day but the pain of being parted does start to ease - dmn can probably put it into words far more eloquently than I could ever hope to.
As for parents? Mine are fortunately still with me but my MiL just wants to be with her youngest daughter
Edited by pincher on Friday 3rd July 12:35
And as I said it's hard as I cannot 'run' to my parents. 16 years for dad and just over 10 years for mum and it still seems like yesterday.
Morningside said:
Thank you. I am going through hell at the moment and everything that could go wrong is. I miss her everyday but I missing her more due to the problems as we always talked about everything and somehow muddled through.
And as I said it's hard as I cannot 'run' to my parents. 16 years for dad and just over 10 years for mum and it still seems like yesterday.
In some ways having parents in such a situation as yours is both a blessing and a curse, In one way it's lovely to have the connection with someone who knows you like no other. The flip side is you come to realise half the time you're 'managing' them in their interactions with your grief and theirs. It adds something else to the mix and yet more people you end up looking after yourself.And as I said it's hard as I cannot 'run' to my parents. 16 years for dad and just over 10 years for mum and it still seems like yesterday.
I'll give you an example. WIthin a handful of weeks of my wife dying, three different people I knew phoned me up to tell them how crap their lives were with their family and their relationships and their own losses. I remember at the time putting the phone down and just yelling at the world to f
k off and leave me alone. One in particular i've never spoken to again - it's almost as if when the person closest to you dies, you become the de facto 'expert' on death and managing loss. Never mind what you're going through, you can handle it.I can only begin to imagine your hell. There was a time when I could use all my senses to describe my loss. It was red and black and angry looking, the shape of a kidney bean, with an arrythmic heart beat and it smelt of cold metal and brine. If I closed my eyes I could see it staring back at life itself, more dysfunctional and out of context, than angry. At times it became a void, at other times it ached to be held and to hold again in ways that only it - I knew. It took a long time for that loss to change shape and become something that was not filled with grief. It took many months before introspection was replaced with just neutral reaction - with for want of a word 'nothing'. The day I said to myself 'I feel nothing', was actually a day forwards for me. It was very hard to get to just that point and harder still to move to a point where I could even begin to entertain the thought of reconnecting or restarting with life. For me it took the realisation that life was standing still and I was going to become one of those sad and lonely men who never got beyond bereavement - and there are lots of them.
We all have to get to a point where we say today can't be worse than yesterday. it just can't. Some days are, but then some days aren't and for a while we seem to bump along on the bottom of the ocean of bereavement. We hold on to everything, we let go of nothing, for fear of letting go of every thing. Everything becomes sacred, important, to be treasured, never to be thrown away. But in time that to changes and clothes and artefacts get sent to jumble and what remains with us is what is truly sacred to us. But even in those previous material things, nothing is held more dearly than the memories most intimate and sacred. The private ones, the ones not shared or privy to another living soul. They become our nurture and drill down in to the depths of our core, or our being.
I lost the love of my life, my soulmate, my guiding light and my best friend, my everything. But I didn't lose her, she wasn't discarded, forgotten or replaced with someone new. No, she will always be there as will yours always be with you. If it's getting hard to read this, I am really sorry, but nothing in life can prepare you for the real heartbreak of this loss, and it for now, can be but endured. But every day longer, every day further into your future, your life becomes a step away from her death and what is in her, in you, in both of you, is drawn deeper into the centre of your being.
I carry mine deep within. Even as I write this, I can feel the place in my heart where she lies, bathed in a teal coloured background that is true and unconditional love. She was bright, vibrant, clever and so strong - qualities that have made her for me, an immortal. As is yours; Immortal within you.
drivin_me_nuts said:
<snip>
Thank you. Thank you so much. You see I hate it when people say "I know how you feel". No, no you do not!You have no idea unless you have lost your loved one and nothing prepares you for it.
I suppose what is making it worse is that Sunday would have been Gills birthday. I have ordered 12 red roses and I have NEVER done that before so that would make her laugh.
And on the 20th would have been our 20th wedding anniversary and I think that is what is really getting me down.
Anyhow, better not thread hijack this anymore as it's about parents.
I really don't think anyone would mind.
It's harder to deal with than anyone can imagine or comprehend, unless they have been through it. I met Vicky when we were both 20, got married the day after her 27th birthday (I planned that well - never forgot an Anniversary
), had 2 amazing kids who are an absolute credit to her and she passed away the day after our daughter's 13th birthday 
It's been tough being a hands-on single parent. Bloody tough. Especially when you been used to leaving for work when everyone is asleep and often not getting home until the kids are either in bed or getting ready for bed. Our lives changed immeasurably that day but as dmn says, there IS hope and you WILL (start to) feel better eventually. I still hate the fact that my bed is empty every night but I know she is up there somewhere bossing everyone around, as she did down here and looking down on me knowing that I'll always love her and am incredibly grateful for the time we had.
Cancer - fk off. And when you get there, fk off from there too. Then fk off some more. Keep fking off until you get back here. Then fk off again.
It's harder to deal with than anyone can imagine or comprehend, unless they have been through it. I met Vicky when we were both 20, got married the day after her 27th birthday (I planned that well - never forgot an Anniversary
), had 2 amazing kids who are an absolute credit to her and she passed away the day after our daughter's 13th birthday It's been tough being a hands-on single parent. Bloody tough. Especially when you been used to leaving for work when everyone is asleep and often not getting home until the kids are either in bed or getting ready for bed. Our lives changed immeasurably that day but as dmn says, there IS hope and you WILL (start to) feel better eventually. I still hate the fact that my bed is empty every night but I know she is up there somewhere bossing everyone around, as she did down here
and looking down on me knowing that I'll always love her and am incredibly grateful for the time we had.Cancer - f
k off. And when you get there, fk off from there too. Then fk off some more. Keep fking off until you get back here. Then fk off again.No one will mind the thread going off kilter.
In a sense it's about grieving in all different ways. Grieving for the parents we're going to lose, the parents we've lost and loved ones in all guises that we will or have lost.
We all need someone to talk to about these things, and so often the opportunity to do so face to face with someone isn't possible for a variety of reasons, and being able to discuss on here is a good thing
In a sense it's about grieving in all different ways. Grieving for the parents we're going to lose, the parents we've lost and loved ones in all guises that we will or have lost.
We all need someone to talk to about these things, and so often the opportunity to do so face to face with someone isn't possible for a variety of reasons, and being able to discuss on here is a good thing
Interesting thread - lots to take in from others. I'm only going to comment on the parents side of things here.
Like Granville, I'm early 40s and I've not seen or spoken to my dad for many years, perhaps 15 or so. But I don't regret it at all - even though we shared many of the same interests - cars, football, rugby, beer - we never bonded, so he's just someone I knew, and thats fine with me. He's 67 now, and his dad, grandfather, and great-grandfather all made it to their mid-70s despite being alcoholic smokers - and he's no different.
I've just been through the paperwork with my Mum, who's late-60s re Power of Attorney for mental health and capability. Its a bit confronting, but I'm glad we've got it sorted. Really pushed by watching her parents die - their last years were a bit of a mess. Both succumbed to mental degeneration, but were allowed to stay in their own home. My mum's dad was bad for about 5 years, gradually regressing to being a child - then one evening went to bed early as he was tired - dead 30 mins later. Mum's mum went 6 months later - fell, broke her hip, never left hospital. Again, she was regressing rapidly. Both were 84.
We see it everyday - Mrs PB has been in the aged care industry for about 7 years now - and have a clear understanding of what it can mean to grow old and infirm, and the help that might be needed. Also of the research thats out there - for those interested, Bradford University is one of the top places in aged care research. We're also in the process of putting our own things in order - we've got three young children, but live on the other side of the planet from any family, so can't rely on anything.
Sorry if that's bit of a ramble, but this topic really strikes a chord at the mo - lots to think on.
Like Granville, I'm early 40s and I've not seen or spoken to my dad for many years, perhaps 15 or so. But I don't regret it at all - even though we shared many of the same interests - cars, football, rugby, beer - we never bonded, so he's just someone I knew, and thats fine with me. He's 67 now, and his dad, grandfather, and great-grandfather all made it to their mid-70s despite being alcoholic smokers - and he's no different.
I've just been through the paperwork with my Mum, who's late-60s re Power of Attorney for mental health and capability. Its a bit confronting, but I'm glad we've got it sorted. Really pushed by watching her parents die - their last years were a bit of a mess. Both succumbed to mental degeneration, but were allowed to stay in their own home. My mum's dad was bad for about 5 years, gradually regressing to being a child - then one evening went to bed early as he was tired - dead 30 mins later. Mum's mum went 6 months later - fell, broke her hip, never left hospital. Again, she was regressing rapidly. Both were 84.
We see it everyday - Mrs PB has been in the aged care industry for about 7 years now - and have a clear understanding of what it can mean to grow old and infirm, and the help that might be needed. Also of the research thats out there - for those interested, Bradford University is one of the top places in aged care research. We're also in the process of putting our own things in order - we've got three young children, but live on the other side of the planet from any family, so can't rely on anything.
Sorry if that's bit of a ramble, but this topic really strikes a chord at the mo - lots to think on.
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