Living as an ex-pat, the downsides
Discussion
I've dipped my toe in the expat world. I've found a few things against it. 9 hours from home, time zones are a b
h, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart.
h, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart. OpulentBob said:
I've dipped my toe in the expat world. I've found a few things against it. 9 hours from home, time zones are a bh, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart.
You are in Mumbai though!! Been there done that...it was horrid. I did Delhi too for 3 yrs far far better!h, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart. I've been lucky and spent most of my life abroad. I like living in different countries and cultures.
As said, when family fall ill or pass away, it can be a little bit of a pain but you can be anywhere on the globe in a day. One Grandma died at the villa in Malta. Aunt and Stepdad passed away recently in Antigua. Other Grandparents died when I was in France or Venezuela.
The thing is my elderly mother is now living on her own in Antigua. There is no family there but she has a fantastic social group to keep an eye on her. Not perfect, but that's how she wants to live. Fair enough.
As said, when family fall ill or pass away, it can be a little bit of a pain but you can be anywhere on the globe in a day. One Grandma died at the villa in Malta. Aunt and Stepdad passed away recently in Antigua. Other Grandparents died when I was in France or Venezuela.
The thing is my elderly mother is now living on her own in Antigua. There is no family there but she has a fantastic social group to keep an eye on her. Not perfect, but that's how she wants to live. Fair enough.
Fishtigua said:
I've been lucky and spent most of my life abroad. I like living in different countries and cultures.
As said, when family fall ill or pass away, it can be a little bit of a pain but you can be anywhere on the globe in a day. One Grandma died at the villa in Malta. Aunt and Stepdad passed away recently in Antigua. Other Grandparents died when I was in France or Venezuela.
The thing is my elderly mother is now living on her own in Antigua. There is no family there but she has a fantastic social group to keep an eye on her. Not perfect, but that's how she wants to live. Fair enough.
I actually work with my father in the business and speak to him throughout the day, almost on a daily basis - the issue is the last remaining grandparents. I am in the UK quite often, and to be honest when I lived in the UK I probably saw them marginally more than I do now. I moved abroad to make the business viable due to costs - and my immediate family are all employed in the business - it provides a life style for us all, just at the expense of distance. Although it's only 1000 miles ( 2 hour plane )! As said, when family fall ill or pass away, it can be a little bit of a pain but you can be anywhere on the globe in a day. One Grandma died at the villa in Malta. Aunt and Stepdad passed away recently in Antigua. Other Grandparents died when I was in France or Venezuela.
The thing is my elderly mother is now living on her own in Antigua. There is no family there but she has a fantastic social group to keep an eye on her. Not perfect, but that's how she wants to live. Fair enough.
Only thing you can't do is quickly pop down to the hospital at a moments notice.
I won't go into all the positives of not living in the UK - that is for another thread ;-)
GT03ROB said:
OpulentBob said:
I've dipped my toe in the expat world. I've found a few things against it. 9 hours from home, time zones are a bh, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart.
You are in Mumbai though!! Been there done that...it was horrid. I did Delhi too for 3 yrs far far better!h, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart. OpulentBob said:
I've dipped my toe in the expat world. I've found a few things against it. 9 hours from home, time zones are a bh, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart.
I'm not sure that Mumbai can be classed as a top ex-pat destination ... I think it would be different if you were on the Adriatic, or Cayman islands/BVI .. etc !h, everyone stares at the "creamy face", get stung for white man tax (aka back handers, because I'm supposedly rich) everywhere, too much noise and chaos everywhere compared to the green green grass of home, miss loved ones, and all the clothes are too small. I've only done it to chase the work, and it's relatively short term, but I'm not a huge fan. I couldn't imagine retiring anywhere that English wasn't spoken, and that was more than a couple of hours on a plane. I think I'll always be a little Englander at heart. I had a great aunt who emigrated to the USA I think in the fifties.
I only met her once - she came to the UK for an operation. It was cheaper to do this (privately of course), than to pay for it in the U.S. I'm. Brit sure if she did not have medical cover or if it did not cover it. Oh - she was a nurse... Real slap,in the face.
As for lifestyle, she lived in Miami, in a trailer park (a nice one as they go)....
I think it's a lot easier now with Internet and the tools that this brings.
I only met her once - she came to the UK for an operation. It was cheaper to do this (privately of course), than to pay for it in the U.S. I'm. Brit sure if she did not have medical cover or if it did not cover it. Oh - she was a nurse... Real slap,in the face.
As for lifestyle, she lived in Miami, in a trailer park (a nice one as they go)....
I think it's a lot easier now with Internet and the tools that this brings.
I have family living in Scotland and Spain, (I live in London). It's often quicker for me to get to my family in Spain than it is to the family in Scotland, and if any of them fell ill the ones in Spain have access to better medical care than the ones here do. All of my family apart from my brother are living away from where they grew up so I suppose it's second nature to us. I'm certainly much happier that my elderly relatives live in Spain rather than here.
GT03ROB said:
It's not easy, but you have to balance many things. Sometimes it's not the frequency of contact but the quality. This ultimately (along with lack of tax) made my decision.
In the UK it was leave home by 6:30am, home by 7:30/8 so midweeks not much real quality time. I would also frequently travel to the US, Mid-East, Singapore or Phillipines often travelling on weekends. Even if you got back on a Friday with jet-lag etc., weekends could be wiped out. You then get 5 weeks leave a year. So really not a great deal of quality time.
Now I earn around 60% more, pay no tax on that, have a car, apartment, fuel provided. I get home every 6-8 weeks or so for around 10 days when I have no distractions. We could take a further 3 weeks at Christmas to visit relatives in Oz & will take another 3 weeks in September when we'll go to the Caribbean. In between this my wife comes out for a 7-10 days & I'm home from work by 4:30. Despite being apart we get far more quality time.
You also need to bear in mind that if anything happened I could be home pretty quickly. It's not all sweetness & light and things can be very difficult for relationships.
Where are you based now sounds like you're happy !In the UK it was leave home by 6:30am, home by 7:30/8 so midweeks not much real quality time. I would also frequently travel to the US, Mid-East, Singapore or Phillipines often travelling on weekends. Even if you got back on a Friday with jet-lag etc., weekends could be wiped out. You then get 5 weeks leave a year. So really not a great deal of quality time.
Now I earn around 60% more, pay no tax on that, have a car, apartment, fuel provided. I get home every 6-8 weeks or so for around 10 days when I have no distractions. We could take a further 3 weeks at Christmas to visit relatives in Oz & will take another 3 weeks in September when we'll go to the Caribbean. In between this my wife comes out for a 7-10 days & I'm home from work by 4:30. Despite being apart we get far more quality time.
You also need to bear in mind that if anything happened I could be home pretty quickly. It's not all sweetness & light and things can be very difficult for relationships.
I have been an expat for 17 years (7 years in India (Jaipur, Kolkata, Delhi and Jamshedpur) and 10 years in the UAE (Dubai)), all with the same company. Originally I was only supposed to spend 6 months finishing a project in Jaipur.......
Dubai is convenient for us as the wifes family are 4 hours away (India) and the son is at university in the UK.
It is not the bed of roses people think it is. I cover the gulf region and thus I can spend 3 weeks out of 4 away. The weather is 40C+ for 8 months of the year so you live in an air conditioned environment and there is very little to do in reality (hence the Friday brunches). Luckily I am involved in the local car and bike racing scene and cycle during the summer.
Our son received a very good education which prepared him well for university life.
At the end of the day, it is my choice to continue to live in Dubai and put up with the advantages (higher salaries, no tax) and disadvantages (no free schooling, no free medical, expensive but rubbish tv / internet services etc).
Dubai is convenient for us as the wifes family are 4 hours away (India) and the son is at university in the UK.
It is not the bed of roses people think it is. I cover the gulf region and thus I can spend 3 weeks out of 4 away. The weather is 40C+ for 8 months of the year so you live in an air conditioned environment and there is very little to do in reality (hence the Friday brunches). Luckily I am involved in the local car and bike racing scene and cycle during the summer.
Our son received a very good education which prepared him well for university life.
At the end of the day, it is my choice to continue to live in Dubai and put up with the advantages (higher salaries, no tax) and disadvantages (no free schooling, no free medical, expensive but rubbish tv / internet services etc).
I've been ex-pat in South Eastern USA since 2001 - there aren't any downsides.
That said, my circumstances may be quite different to many - my family are globally scattered, my daughter had finished her education before we moved (she's now a USC) and I have a reasonably secure employment that pays well and means I am not tied to any specific place of residence - just need to be close to an International airport.
That said, my circumstances may be quite different to many - my family are globally scattered, my daughter had finished her education before we moved (she's now a USC) and I have a reasonably secure employment that pays well and means I am not tied to any specific place of residence - just need to be close to an International airport.
Been here in Canada since 2005, now a citizen married and not coming home any time soon, I miss my family but I find the quality of life here is better than I could have got in the UK, I work hard, but also have plenty of downtime either with friends in the city or at the cottage in the country.
wibble cb said:
Been here in Canada since 2005, now a citizen married and not coming home any time soon, I miss my family but I find the quality of life here is better than I could have got in the UK, I work hard, but also have plenty of downtime either with friends in the city or at the cottage in the country.
Yeap been here the same length of time and it's fantastic . Still keep in touch with friends regularly via skype/phone/fb but have no wish even to visit the UK . Standard of living is beyond expectations along with opportunities . Only downside being MIL is 90 now and one day over the next few years we'll get the phone call but we discussed all these scenarios before moving over .Most Canadians in the West have European roots and I've never been made to feel unwelcome here , well only once and that was from a Queerbecker who got firmly put in his place , surrender monkey
Matt Harper said:
I've been ex-pat in South Eastern USA since 2001 - there aren't any downsides.
That said, my circumstances may be quite different to many - my family are globally scattered, my daughter had finished her education before we moved (she's now a USC) and I have a reasonably secure employment that pays well and means I am not tied to any specific place of residence - just need to be close to an International airport.
Tried to pm you by pH is throwing up errors.That said, my circumstances may be quite different to many - my family are globally scattered, my daughter had finished her education before we moved (she's now a USC) and I have a reasonably secure employment that pays well and means I am not tied to any specific place of residence - just need to be close to an International airport.
Just wanted tips on getting into your industry?
fttm said:
wibble cb said:
Been here in Canada since 2005, now a citizen married and not coming home any time soon, I miss my family but I find the quality of life here is better than I could have got in the UK, I work hard, but also have plenty of downtime either with friends in the city or at the cottage in the country.
Yeap been here the same length of time and it's fantastic . Still keep in touch with friends regularly via skype/phone/fb but have no wish even to visit the UK . Standard of living is beyond expectations along with opportunities . Only downside being MIL is 90 now and one day over the next few years we'll get the phone call but we discussed all these scenarios before moving over .Most Canadians in the West have European roots and I've never been made to feel unwelcome here , well only once and that was from a Queerbecker who got firmly put in his place , surrender monkey
king hot and too fking boring. I've got a colleague who spent 5 years there and neither he nor his Singaporese wife have anything good to say about the place. And he's a scouser, so would have set his bar fairly low anyway. wibble cb said:
Been here in Canada since 2005, now a citizen married and not coming home any time soon, I miss my family but I find the quality of life here is better than I could have got in the UK, I work hard, but also have plenty of downtime either with friends in the city or at the cottage in the country.
Interesting choice of label. I've been expat for 18 months now so not a long time into it compared to some, and it's been a rollercoaster so far but seems to be settling into things now.
Being in the UAE (Abu Dhabi) I can understand why most get drawn into the brunch and drinking circles, it's very easy to do. On the face of it this place doesn't have a lot to offer outside hotels, malls and beach resorts. However I do think it's what you make of it and there is a lot more to offer than that if you look for it.
I try to pass myself off as a triathlete, and the clubs run throughout the summer with the exception of sea swimming as that does get pretty warm. But over the past week I've managed to be out on the bike 5 days (longest being 100km) and ran 12km (any longer and the heat does get to me). It would certainly be more fun in the UK doing similar than 40-45C heat but you adapt, plan and enjoy things. For instance setting off past the nightclubs kicking out for a long cycle before the sun comes up!
You've then got the Yas F1 circuit on your doorstep, mountain ranges a 90 minute drive away and short flights to explore Asia.
Of course being away from family is always the hardest part, but we're lucky in that my mum is a teacher and so plenty of holidays to visit, my wifes mother is retired so plenty (too much) time to visit, and my head office is in Aberdeen so I can be back to Scotland once a year with them. You do end up spending some holiday allowance going home to visit people but that's no hardship to me.
One of the advantages of being in this part of the world is that English is truly the easiest language to get by with, and it's the same for my industry, so I haven't found not speaking Arabic a problem, although I do try to pick parts of it up.
Being in the UAE (Abu Dhabi) I can understand why most get drawn into the brunch and drinking circles, it's very easy to do. On the face of it this place doesn't have a lot to offer outside hotels, malls and beach resorts. However I do think it's what you make of it and there is a lot more to offer than that if you look for it.
I try to pass myself off as a triathlete, and the clubs run throughout the summer with the exception of sea swimming as that does get pretty warm. But over the past week I've managed to be out on the bike 5 days (longest being 100km) and ran 12km (any longer and the heat does get to me). It would certainly be more fun in the UK doing similar than 40-45C heat but you adapt, plan and enjoy things. For instance setting off past the nightclubs kicking out for a long cycle before the sun comes up!
You've then got the Yas F1 circuit on your doorstep, mountain ranges a 90 minute drive away and short flights to explore Asia.
Of course being away from family is always the hardest part, but we're lucky in that my mum is a teacher and so plenty of holidays to visit, my wifes mother is retired so plenty (too much) time to visit, and my head office is in Aberdeen so I can be back to Scotland once a year with them. You do end up spending some holiday allowance going home to visit people but that's no hardship to me.
One of the advantages of being in this part of the world is that English is truly the easiest language to get by with, and it's the same for my industry, so I haven't found not speaking Arabic a problem, although I do try to pick parts of it up.
agree with that. being in a new country where everyone has a comfortable existence and its easy to get lost in the social scene as a newcomer. my first year in dubai was like being a fresher again.
its horses for courses. sure there are many expat stereotypes but they're easily avoided.
personally i love the uk and miss it - especially the countryside, the culture, pubs and the music scene. its st not being able to see my mates or family as often as i'd like, my parents in particular seem to be aging quicker these days and i received an email from them about their will recently which makes certain things play on your mind.
but i don't miss the people or the politics. much prefer the cultural mix of expat life, the attitude towards things [don't moan, make your own life etc.], the lack of jealousy, the lack of tabloid sensationalism and endless focus on house prices and the weather
being ph i can also afford to run 3 cars over here and even the odd spot of racing
its horses for courses. sure there are many expat stereotypes but they're easily avoided.
personally i love the uk and miss it - especially the countryside, the culture, pubs and the music scene. its s
t not being able to see my mates or family as often as i'd like, my parents in particular seem to be aging quicker these days and i received an email from them about their will recently which makes certain things play on your mind.but i don't miss the people or the politics. much prefer the cultural mix of expat life, the attitude towards things [don't moan, make your own life etc.], the lack of jealousy, the lack of tabloid sensationalism and endless focus on house prices and the weather
being ph i can also afford to run 3 cars over here and even the odd spot of racing
Edited by shirt on Thursday 6th August 06:02
jonamv8 said:
GT03ROB said:
It's not easy, but you have to balance many things. Sometimes it's not the frequency of contact but the quality. This ultimately (along with lack of tax) made my decision.
In the UK it was leave home by 6:30am, home by 7:30/8 so midweeks not much real quality time. I would also frequently travel to the US, Mid-East, Singapore or Phillipines often travelling on weekends. Even if you got back on a Friday with jet-lag etc., weekends could be wiped out. You then get 5 weeks leave a year. So really not a great deal of quality time.
Now I earn around 60% more, pay no tax on that, have a car, apartment, fuel provided. I get home every 6-8 weeks or so for around 10 days when I have no distractions. We could take a further 3 weeks at Christmas to visit relatives in Oz & will take another 3 weeks in September when we'll go to the Caribbean. In between this my wife comes out for a 7-10 days & I'm home from work by 4:30. Despite being apart we get far more quality time.
You also need to bear in mind that if anything happened I could be home pretty quickly. It's not all sweetness & light and things can be very difficult for relationships.
Where are you based now sounds like you're happy !In the UK it was leave home by 6:30am, home by 7:30/8 so midweeks not much real quality time. I would also frequently travel to the US, Mid-East, Singapore or Phillipines often travelling on weekends. Even if you got back on a Friday with jet-lag etc., weekends could be wiped out. You then get 5 weeks leave a year. So really not a great deal of quality time.
Now I earn around 60% more, pay no tax on that, have a car, apartment, fuel provided. I get home every 6-8 weeks or so for around 10 days when I have no distractions. We could take a further 3 weeks at Christmas to visit relatives in Oz & will take another 3 weeks in September when we'll go to the Caribbean. In between this my wife comes out for a 7-10 days & I'm home from work by 4:30. Despite being apart we get far more quality time.
You also need to bear in mind that if anything happened I could be home pretty quickly. It's not all sweetness & light and things can be very difficult for relationships.
In the past I've lived in Saudi, Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Oman, India (Mumbai, Delhi, Jamnagar), Equatorial Guinea & Houston.
It becomes a way of life, but home is & always will be England.
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