Living as an ex-pat, the downsides
Discussion
NordicCrankShaft said:
The only other thing I miss is the diversity of food we get in the UK, in terms of fresh produce here in Norway the quality is abysmal compared to back home.
Yes, have to agree. That said, even compared to when I moved here 4 years ago there is a lot more choice in food here now.FredClogs said:
Think about how immigrants to the UK are treated and regarded amongst the "indigenous" population and then wonder why it would be different anywhere else.
Think it depends - if you try and integrate it's not a big problem in some places.I guess you avoid a lot of the normal expat problems where I am, as with a pint being £8 or so there isn't a big drinking problem,
Also tax is higher than the UK so it's not like people are going crazy with loads of spare cash. Generally people are a lot more contented with their life, which I love. Loads to do too as well, not just compound life - skiing (cross country, rando and alpine), kayaking, cycling, hill walking, fishing etc. Main disadvantages are missing family, car prices (would be around £70 000 to get a TVR T350 or so over here) and takes time to travel from here.
Eric Mc said:
Not much different to how many immigrants are viewed in the UK.
---
Why isn't the thread title "Living as an Immigrant"?
Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
Eric, without being rude, why are you on this thread? This isn't a debate about what we call ourselves, we're discussing the downsides of not being in our country of birth.---
Why isn't the thread title "Living as an Immigrant"?
Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
I don't really want to debate how UK people treat immigrants or start a leftist argument.
Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 6th August 12:19
GT03ROB said:
...and going back to my post about quality time... I actually believe I see more of my parents & son now than I did when I was in the UK. I hadn't seen my sister in 6 years before I was able to travel to Oz last Christmas......
This! Although I'm frustrated I can't drive 30 minutes to the hospital, when I come over to the UK I made a road trip around, see people I haven't seen for a while and catch up with everyone. When I was in the UK I probably saw most of those people the same amount - the difference is we both have a lot more to talk about !JMGS4 said:
Been an ex-pat for over 40 years now. Methinks the "ex-Pat Problem" as mentioned applies only to those who refuse to integrate, or speak the language etc., who want to live in a "little Britain" somewhere "foreign". I still have some family in the UK, can get there relatively fast if I need to (7 hours car, 2-3 hours plane travel) and certainly miss some friends, but with the internet we can still keep contact when necessary. (After 40-odd years they really are friends and not just acquintances!)
What I miss (but most probably no longer exist) the quiet pub in the countryside with a cool pint of bitter and a ploughmans (were new when I left!). I can get virtually everything else. Return? Very doubtful.....
I genuinely love Germany! Every year I am there at least 2-3 times, Munich & Frankfurt. All the people I have met are very polite, the service has been great and I have some super friends. The country just "works", the Munchen uban is like a Swiss watch - it makes it an easy place to be. Matched with their passion for cars, great food, culture and driving roads!What I miss (but most probably no longer exist) the quiet pub in the countryside with a cool pint of bitter and a ploughmans (were new when I left!). I can get virtually everything else. Return? Very doubtful.....
stuart-b said:
I genuinely love Germany! Every year I am there at least 2-3 times, Munich & Frankfurt. All the people I have met are very polite, the service has been great and I have some super friends. The country just "works", the Munchen uban is like a Swiss watch - it makes it an easy place to be. Matched with their passion for cars, great food, culture and driving roads!
I enjoyed it last time I was there - more than I expected. There was a thread a few months ago about living elsewhere and I seem to recall barely anyone had bad things to say about the place.OpulentBob said:
No, it is TOTALLY different.
If I were a taxi driver, and I charge Ahmed from Baghdad 10 times the amount I charge Fred from down the road for a taxi ride, I get (at best) vilified by the left, and (at worse) arrested and lose my business. Look at what happens to hotels who try and charge
s a fatter security deposit for their weddings.
Here, it is accepted and practically promoted that having a white face means you're here to have your wallet emptied.
I'm no racist - or I wouldn't be here - but I can see it for what it is.
You are looked on as an outsider.If I were a taxi driver, and I charge Ahmed from Baghdad 10 times the amount I charge Fred from down the road for a taxi ride, I get (at best) vilified by the left, and (at worse) arrested and lose my business. Look at what happens to hotels who try and charge
s a fatter security deposit for their weddings. Here, it is accepted and practically promoted that having a white face means you're here to have your wallet emptied.
I'm no racist - or I wouldn't be here - but I can see it for what it is.
You are looked on as being different.
It might manifest itself in different ways in different countries - but the fact that you are not assimilated or perhaps don't WANT to be assimilated makes it all the same to me.
227bhp said:
stuart-b said:
I genuinely love Germany! Every year I am there at least 2-3 times, Munich & Frankfurt. All the people I have met are very polite, the service has been great and I have some super friends. The country just "works", the Munchen uban is like a Swiss watch - it makes it an easy place to be. Matched with their passion for cars, great food, culture and driving roads!
I enjoyed it last time I was there - more than I expected. There was a thread a few months ago about living elsewhere and I seem to recall barely anyone had bad things to say about the place.I don't intend on going back to the UK after my contract finishes here as I just find it depressing. So the options are either find another job here or move to the US (Mrs Wooster is a US citizen so it will be fairly easy to get over there).
stuart-b said:
Eric, without being rude, why are you on this thread? This isn't a debate about what we call ourselves, we're discussing the downsides of not being in our country of birth.
I don't really want to debate how UK people treat immigrants or start a leftist argument.
I am an immigrant living in the UK. I am, in effect, an "ex-pat" of sorts - although I don't feel like one. I am always interested in how those from abroad try or don't try to fit in - and how the natives allow or don't allow them to fit in.I don't really want to debate how UK people treat immigrants or start a leftist argument.
Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 6th August 12:19
Eric Mc said:
Why isn't the thread title "Living as an Immigrant"?
Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
because most expats aren't permanent residents, residency permit usually tied to the job. Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
Eric Mc said:
I am an immigrant living in the UK. I am, in effect, an "ex-pat" of sorts - although I don't feel like one. I am always interested in how those from abroad try or don't try to fit in - and how the natives allow or don't allow them to fit in.
Bloody immigrants ... stealing our jobs ... ruining our country ! 
I technically share the same religion as 97% of the local population here, we're all "white" and they "all" (meaning, greater than not, even if not, some dodgy German gets you by) speak English - so for me, integration is very easy compared to the stories above living in India. I guess it really depends where you are. We employ local people and are 100% export, so I am treated well by the local gov. and any agency I speak to as unemployment is high. Those that know me are also very respectful and I'm never reminded I'm an outsider. I would say the country is much more tolerant than we (English) are. Perhaps this is something to do with the UK being an island, and in Europe many people travel around for work and pleasure. You will see almost all the European nations here at some point. Cars with all sorts of reg plates from California to Russia and Ukraine.
Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 6th August 13:00
Impasse said:
wibble cb said:
Been here in Canada since 2005, now a citizen married and not coming home any time soon, I miss my family but I find the quality of life here is better than I could have got in the UK, I work hard, but also have plenty of downtime either with friends in the city or at the cottage in the country.
Interesting choice of label. stuart-b said:
Bloody immigrants ... stealing our jobs ... ruining our country !
I technically share the same religion as 97% of the local population here, we're all "white" and they "all" (meaning, greater than not, even if not, some dodgy German gets you by) speak English - so for me, integration is very easy compared to the stories above living in India. I guess it really depends where you are. We employ local people and are 100% export, so I am treated well by the local gov. and any agency I speak to as unemployment is high. Those that know me are also very respectful and I'm never reminded I'm an outsider. I would say the country is much more tolerant than we (English) are. Perhaps this is something to do with the UK being an island, and in Europe many people travel around for work and pleasure. You will see almost all the European nations here at some point. Cars with all sorts of reg plates from California to Russia and Ukraine.
I'm Irish - so integrating with the mainstream UK culture was fairly easy. After all, the two countries have a shared, if not always harmonious, relationship.I technically share the same religion as 97% of the local population here, we're all "white" and they "all" (meaning, greater than not, even if not, some dodgy German gets you by) speak English - so for me, integration is very easy compared to the stories above living in India. I guess it really depends where you are. We employ local people and are 100% export, so I am treated well by the local gov. and any agency I speak to as unemployment is high. Those that know me are also very respectful and I'm never reminded I'm an outsider. I would say the country is much more tolerant than we (English) are. Perhaps this is something to do with the UK being an island, and in Europe many people travel around for work and pleasure. You will see almost all the European nations here at some point. Cars with all sorts of reg plates from California to Russia and Ukraine.
Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 6th August 13:00
Eric Mc said:
Why isn't the thread title "Living as an Immigrant"?
Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
I think this is a quite reasonable observation and certainly applies to me. 'Immigrant' arguably implies permanence and that is my status.Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
I've been an ex-pat for 10 years now and I've never looked back. I've had absolutely no desire to return to the UK, however I do enjoy going home from time to time visiting my family and friends.
I think many of the downsides come about through distance however and that's really never been a problem for me. I spent 6 years in Vienna where it was easy to get home when I wanted to, and I've not been 4 years in the South of Spain, working in Gibraltar but living in Spain. (I spent 1.5 years in Gib and putting it nicely, it wasn't my cup of tea).
The point is, all my locations have allowed me to get home for as little as 100€ and flights are plentiful.
There have been times where I've missed my family intensely but these are far and few between. My biggest regret is not seeing my nephews growing up and becoming little men and I miss out on family events quite often.
However, the upsides outweigh all the downsides. I feel I have a much higher quality of life, I get paid more, I go out more, my living costs are cheaper, fuel is just 70p per litre and the weather is supremely better. We've had 2 months of a constant 30C+ and there's no sight of it ending, and winters never get below 5C.
Weekends are spent on the beach, riding my bike, eating out in some of the best fish restaurants and simply enjoying life outdoors. The only part I could improve would be to move closer to my place of work to reduce my daily commute. (1 hour and 15 minutes each way), but that will come in March next year.
If I want anything from "home", I just order it on-line, otherwise I'm very lucky to have UK supermarkets in my vicinity along with Gibraltar where I work on a daily basis.
I think many of the downsides come about through distance however and that's really never been a problem for me. I spent 6 years in Vienna where it was easy to get home when I wanted to, and I've not been 4 years in the South of Spain, working in Gibraltar but living in Spain. (I spent 1.5 years in Gib and putting it nicely, it wasn't my cup of tea).
The point is, all my locations have allowed me to get home for as little as 100€ and flights are plentiful.
There have been times where I've missed my family intensely but these are far and few between. My biggest regret is not seeing my nephews growing up and becoming little men and I miss out on family events quite often.
However, the upsides outweigh all the downsides. I feel I have a much higher quality of life, I get paid more, I go out more, my living costs are cheaper, fuel is just 70p per litre and the weather is supremely better. We've had 2 months of a constant 30C+ and there's no sight of it ending, and winters never get below 5C.
Weekends are spent on the beach, riding my bike, eating out in some of the best fish restaurants and simply enjoying life outdoors. The only part I could improve would be to move closer to my place of work to reduce my daily commute. (1 hour and 15 minutes each way), but that will come in March next year.
If I want anything from "home", I just order it on-line, otherwise I'm very lucky to have UK supermarkets in my vicinity along with Gibraltar where I work on a daily basis.
Eric Mc said:
Why isn't the thread title "Living as an Immigrant"?
Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
I'd call myself an expat rather than an immigrant I suppose. I do see it is different in that 'expats' add something to the country they're in... most of the people here that I know and would call expats are all spending a fortune in money they brought here with them, or earned elsewhere. All we're doing is pumping cash into the local economy with little to no downside. I'd probably call my girlfriend an immigrant. If you look at it with all personal feeling aside its hard to see her as adding anything at all - all she's doing is stealing a minimum wage job that a local could have done.Why do the Brits abroad hardly ever use the expression "immigrant" when they refer to themselves? Do they look on themselves as something different?
stuart-b said:
There was a very interesting article published recently, which went through social media, explaining one persons journey as an ex-pat, the high's and lows. It was a great read (can't see to locate it at the moment! - and summed up my life, except for the family part).
Well I can say that hearing a loved family member had a stroke and is in hospital this morning certainly added to my list of downsides! Not able to visit due to lack of plane ticket availability and regulatory deadlines which show no mercy... this is the part which isn't fun
Try reading the book written by Laura Stephens (psychologist and wife of the person moving abroad for work). Her book is called 'An Inconvenient Posting'. Very readable and not psychobabble at all. I recommend it. Well I can say that hearing a loved family member had a stroke and is in hospital this morning certainly added to my list of downsides! Not able to visit due to lack of plane ticket availability and regulatory deadlines which show no mercy... this is the part which isn't fun
Eric Mc said:
And immigrants don't add something to the country they are in?
Obviously, some do and some don't. Exactly the same as "ex-pats".
low level immigrants on a whole don't seem to be adding much to their host country, no.Obviously, some do and some don't. Exactly the same as "ex-pats".
We're at 15% unemployment rate here in Portugal. I don't see how anyone can realistically justify my Brazilian girlfriend being here and cleaning pools and toilets for 5 euros an hour, can you? There must have been a local person who could have done it. Or maybe they don't want to work for that sort of money because all the Brazilians doing it forced the market rate that low? I certainly wouldn't call that a win either, for anyone other than the toilet owner anyway.
For the people I'm referring to as expats, we're all spending money earned elsewhere... we're a net win for the host country.
Edited by KFC on Thursday 6th August 16:37
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