People claiming to be ex Royal Marine/Para
Discussion
I think that part of the reason why people lie about their service (or not,as the case may be) is that there's relatively little understanding about life inside the military amongst the wider population. Which makes it quite easy for someone who's prepared to do a little research on the subject to fabricate a glorious service record for themselves.
Also, much like the Christopher Lee story, it's easy to embellish a genuine record, to allow others to embellish it by reading too much into things, or to simply make up what you see as an obvious exaggeration about your service, which then 'sprouts wings' and takes off with a life of it's own.
From personal experience, it's entirely understandable when civilians start to read too much into a statement. I spent 24 years in the Royal Engineers, my last unit was 33/101 Engineer Regiment at Wimbish. It's the EOD (Bomb Disposal) unit, for those who don't know. The issue comes when you tell someone who's asked about your service, and their next statement/question is along the lines of "Wow! You're a braver man than I could ever be! What is it like, dealing with unexploded bombs?" At which point you have two options...
1) The truth - I didn't deal with unexploded bombs at all. Most of my time there was spent as the Unit Ammunition Accountant/Storekeeper. All units have their 'shiny' roles, but all require chefs, clerks, medics, and stores personnel too. My role was important. Possibly vital to UK Ops and training. But it never once involved "defusing an IED" or anything remotely similar.
2) Embellish as much or as little as you wish - after all, if the person you are talking to knew much about the subject, you'd be able to tell pretty quickly. So lie as much as you like. You know the theory, you've seen the kit. You know a fair bit about procedures and probably wore the 'Queen Mary Battle Honour' bomb on a red background on the left sleeve of your best kit. After all, how would a strawb know that a qualified Bomb Disposal Engineer would wear a 'trade' bomb badge with a green background?
...but if you choose option 2), beware! Once you tell the lie once, you're pretty much committed to it, unless you 'fess up pretty swiftly. Then it's only a matter of time (what with Sappers being everywhere and all
) before you're introduced to a genuine former EOD operator and your story starts to resemble a colander.
I've stuck to my sphere of experience, rather then the Special Forces area, as it's what I know, but I'd imagine it's similar with those SASWalts. I've know a couple of SAS chaps who I can be sure were genuinely badge-qualified members of "The Regiment". Two people out of thousands I served with through those 24 years. I won't name them, for obvious reasons. But only TWO! From thousands of colleagues over the years. A relatively small percentage of the population has served in the military. A tiny percentage of those with Special Forces. The chances of meeting one of them are small, the chances of knowing that you've met one smaller still. I did know about a dozen colleagues who were training for, or had been through 'Selection'. Most failed to make it through, and were RTU'd for injuries, or simply weren't deemed suitable for SAS service for whatever reason. A couple of those chaps may well have gone on to full SAS service. I don't know for sure. But I do know that I never, ever considered myself as a suitable candidate for that sort of service, as I was never going to be physically up to achieving the standard of fitness required to even go into the application process.
Also, much like the Christopher Lee story, it's easy to embellish a genuine record, to allow others to embellish it by reading too much into things, or to simply make up what you see as an obvious exaggeration about your service, which then 'sprouts wings' and takes off with a life of it's own.
From personal experience, it's entirely understandable when civilians start to read too much into a statement. I spent 24 years in the Royal Engineers, my last unit was 33/101 Engineer Regiment at Wimbish. It's the EOD (Bomb Disposal) unit, for those who don't know. The issue comes when you tell someone who's asked about your service, and their next statement/question is along the lines of "Wow! You're a braver man than I could ever be! What is it like, dealing with unexploded bombs?" At which point you have two options...
1) The truth - I didn't deal with unexploded bombs at all. Most of my time there was spent as the Unit Ammunition Accountant/Storekeeper. All units have their 'shiny' roles, but all require chefs, clerks, medics, and stores personnel too. My role was important. Possibly vital to UK Ops and training. But it never once involved "defusing an IED" or anything remotely similar.
2) Embellish as much or as little as you wish - after all, if the person you are talking to knew much about the subject, you'd be able to tell pretty quickly. So lie as much as you like. You know the theory, you've seen the kit. You know a fair bit about procedures and probably wore the 'Queen Mary Battle Honour' bomb on a red background on the left sleeve of your best kit. After all, how would a strawb know that a qualified Bomb Disposal Engineer would wear a 'trade' bomb badge with a green background?
...but if you choose option 2), beware! Once you tell the lie once, you're pretty much committed to it, unless you 'fess up pretty swiftly. Then it's only a matter of time (what with Sappers being everywhere and all
) before you're introduced to a genuine former EOD operator and your story starts to resemble a colander. I've stuck to my sphere of experience, rather then the Special Forces area, as it's what I know, but I'd imagine it's similar with those SASWalts. I've know a couple of SAS chaps who I can be sure were genuinely badge-qualified members of "The Regiment". Two people out of thousands I served with through those 24 years. I won't name them, for obvious reasons. But only TWO! From thousands of colleagues over the years. A relatively small percentage of the population has served in the military. A tiny percentage of those with Special Forces. The chances of meeting one of them are small, the chances of knowing that you've met one smaller still. I did know about a dozen colleagues who were training for, or had been through 'Selection'. Most failed to make it through, and were RTU'd for injuries, or simply weren't deemed suitable for SAS service for whatever reason. A couple of those chaps may well have gone on to full SAS service. I don't know for sure. But I do know that I never, ever considered myself as a suitable candidate for that sort of service, as I was never going to be physically up to achieving the standard of fitness required to even go into the application process.
I was in the SAS and so was my wife. I was third man on the balcony storming the Iranian embassy, and I once spent 30 days lying in a faeces-filled ditch in the 'Stan before taking out a Taliban warlord at 5000 metres with my Gieves & Hawkes 9mm rifle with Vivitar 10x50 scope. Got away by the skin of my teeth, 50 miles over the Hindu Kush with a 300lb pack in ten hours. Still do a bit of hush-hush work training Johnny Foreigner in special techniques, can't really talk about it. Boathouse is creosote not paint, BTW, trick question!.
Kaelic said:
At airsoft, especially Milsim's we get all sorts of Walts wandering around pretending to have served etc...
Never done airsoft but there were a couple of paras at a paintballing session I went to years ago. They were crap at it 
I think their main reasoning was the paint guns were only accurate to about 10 yards. Did another paintballing day with a serving infantry major who after initially saying he wasn't going to try and command gave us plenty of suggestions that led us to completely wipe out the other team for minimal casualties
I did Para Prac at Lichfield in 93 and I remember standing on the train platform looking at the scrap land that the IRA hid in before shooting the soldiers. It was quite sobering at 16 being told to check cars, make sure you don't wear any uniform etc, ended up joining the infantry.
You get loads of bloaters saying they did this and that, buying replacement medals to pretend they went to theatre etc.
We even had one guy come to 2 reunions before we worked out he never passed training :-)
You get loads of bloaters saying they did this and that, buying replacement medals to pretend they went to theatre etc.
We even had one guy come to 2 reunions before we worked out he never passed training :-)
Edited by phil-sti on Wednesday 26th August 11:59
Kaelic said:
At airsoft, especially Milsim's we get all sorts of Walts wandering around pretending to have served etc...
We have links to former serving and current serving guys as our team and company was actually set-up by John Mac back in the day (before my time). So we have always had links with SF sorts.
Lots of memorable occasions when people turning up have been asked to remove para wings, SAS badges, Marine globes etc... Some remove them without a word, a couple have argued they have "earned" them, couple of questions (boathouse colour!) soon sort the chaff from the wheat.
Usually the guys who have earned the right to wear the Para/Marine badges are the ones who don't wear them when running around with toy guys!
I was once supposed to make a film for the BBC about a kind of paintball / survivalist holiday weekend camp thing that John Mac was running in Wales. I went and did a recce and met them all and it was all set to go - Angela Rippon was going to present. Then suddenly someone higher up at the Beeb got wind we were working with him and it was all pulled quickly and mysteriously and never spoken of again, although I was told him and his colleagues were mixed up in some extremely murky business with weapons and under investigation by the spooksWe have links to former serving and current serving guys as our team and company was actually set-up by John Mac back in the day (before my time). So we have always had links with SF sorts.
Lots of memorable occasions when people turning up have been asked to remove para wings, SAS badges, Marine globes etc... Some remove them without a word, a couple have argued they have "earned" them, couple of questions (boathouse colour!) soon sort the chaff from the wheat.
Usually the guys who have earned the right to wear the Para/Marine badges are the ones who don't wear them when running around with toy guys!
soad said:
thainy77 said:
Never you mind said:
I was in the special forces, SAS to be precise. My code name was Soap. I shot lots of Russians and a chap called Markov, worked along side some guy called Price at the time, had a moustache. Good times.
el stovey said:
iambeowulf said:
No, that's Bear(ly) Believable Grylls.
Or Chris I was a cook Ryan.
I met one of these best selling ex SAS authors a while ago, he was going out with a work colleague. A Geordie bloke I think, (I know it's a bit vague) is he a fantasist then? Or Chris I was a cook Ryan.
I saw an interview with him and he seemed a bit of an arse.
I have met a few RM, serving at the time, through a family member who was also a RM. all of them were simmering lunatics but strangely controlled and moody. Scared the hell out of me.
They were on leave once in my home town and all dressed up as dorks (way before it was fashionable) and proceeded to fight their way though the high st! I just watched.
They all had big smiles on their faces in the wake of carnage left behind.
krunchkin said:
I was once supposed to make a film for the BBC about a kind of paintball / survivalist holiday weekend camp thing that John Mac was running in Wales. I went and did a recce and met them all and it was all set to go - Angela Rippon was going to present. Then suddenly someone higher up at the Beeb got wind we were working with him and it was all pulled quickly and mysteriously and never spoken of again, although I was told him and his colleagues were mixed up in some extremely murky business with weapons and under investigation by the spooks
Well, there were those accusations of child porn before his death. I guess the BBC would know all about that!iambeowulf said:
Re Ryan. There was a bit of controversy about his book and the details from serving and ex SP. I'm not saying he wasn't in it but may have made stuff up to sell books (which I liked. Bravo Two Zero).
I saw an interview with him and he seemed a bit of an arse.
I have met a few RM, serving at the time, through a family member who was also a RM. all of them were simmering lunatics but strangely controlled and moody. Scared the hell out of me.
They were on leave once in my home town and all dressed up as dorks (way before it was fashionable) and proceeded to fight their way though the high st! I just watched.
They all had big smiles on their faces in the wake of carnage left behind.
If I recall correctly, wasn't it Ryan that criticised McNab for making stuff up in his version of events? Specifically, the number of firefights they seemingly got themselves into, etc?I saw an interview with him and he seemed a bit of an arse.
I have met a few RM, serving at the time, through a family member who was also a RM. all of them were simmering lunatics but strangely controlled and moody. Scared the hell out of me.
They were on leave once in my home town and all dressed up as dorks (way before it was fashionable) and proceeded to fight their way though the high st! I just watched.
They all had big smiles on their faces in the wake of carnage left behind.
To be fair, at least Ryan made it out!
You do have to be careful, even with jokingly telling lies
My dad used to joke at his place of work about being the youngest ever Spitfire pilot in WWII (he'd have been about 9 at the end!) and word got back to his boss. Boss did the calculations, worked out my dad was coming up to retirement (ten years early) and started a whip round!
My dad used to joke at his place of work about being the youngest ever Spitfire pilot in WWII (he'd have been about 9 at the end!) and word got back to his boss. Boss did the calculations, worked out my dad was coming up to retirement (ten years early) and started a whip round!
king boathouse question supposed to be about when apparent ex SAS are banging on about it? Is there actually a sodding boathouse or is some weird alternative question to something else, I'm sure its been asked before so go easy......Richyboy said:
Before the internet it must have been so easy to pull mindless females with stories of stolen valour.
My only friend who was in the paras is an really ugly fecker, he's a bit of a nutter also, I'm not sure the paras spent much time training him in impressing women. My school friends who went into the Royal Marines seem to have a bit more panache about them, I can imagine them having had some kind of course on charming the ladies.
I was quite disappointed seeing the TV programme about the RM last year, particularly how low calibre some of the recruits were. The guys I know who went there were the sort who do well anywhere. Perhaps they don't make good TV.
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