Life in Another Country - Long Version
Discussion
thainy77 said:
I see you've touched on it a few times with regard to rich/poor and dark/pale but how do you find the class system in general? that was my biggest gripe about India.
It absolutely sucks, as far as I can tell. The whole caste/class thing makes my skin crawl. I have a young lady working for me, she is 25ish. She has had her boyfriend since school, they are great together, they speak all the time, they have got a lifetime of plans ahead of them. But they are not allowed to marry because his mother is aware that she is from a lower caste, and therefore is not eligible for marriage. She's got 2 degrees, works hard, is an attractive, slim, well-off girl, but because her great grandfather was a farmer or something, it's forbidden. She regularly is upset on a Monday morning, coming back to the city having spent a weekend with her family and hearing how her BF's parents have arranged meetings with other potential wives. I've met him, he's a decent lad, but he can't/won't say anything to them out of respect.
I think, before I go home, I'm going to have words with them over the phone. Nothing angry or nasty, just a chat with someone who sees things in a different way. I'm fully aware that it's not my society, and it's not my culture, but I really don't know if they realise how upsetting it is for her, and for absolutely no tangible reason at all.
That's about all I've heard about the system to be honest, I don't think I'd be able to stomach hearing or knowing too much more about it. For all our PH snobbery on here, I think we'd all be quite similar.
thainy77 said:
I see you've touched on it a few times with regard to rich/poor and dark/pale but how do you find the class system in general? that was my biggest gripe about India.
It's very similar in South America. The paler skinned rich tend to only socialise with their own kind. The non-European/Arab people with indigenous Indian blood tend to be poorer, thus shunned.Some of those girls are utterly beautiful but the local rich boys will only have them as a girlfriend/mistress but never marry one.
How have you found the blatant bulls
tting in business? I deal with Indian colleagues every day (offshore software support and development) and have been over there a couple of times (Hyderabad). My biggest frustration is that Indians, in general, are incapable of saying no, or admitting they don't know something, because of the 'loss of face' issue.
I've had major systems go down, the conversation always goes like this:
Me: "System XYZ has gone down, the log shows return code 1234 from program ABC. Do you know what that is?"
Indian colleague: "Yes"
Me: "OK, what is it?"
Indian colleague: "I don't know"
It is infuriating. I don't expect them to know everything, but the level of bullstting is incredible. We would get on a lot better if they were able to say "I don't know, but I can find out".
I find the heirachical system pretty hard work too. Nobody will question their boss, even if their boss is talking bks. In my field every one wants to be a techie for as short a time as possible, before becoming a manager, because being a manager has status. The problem I find is that it's the best bullstters that get promoted, who were most likely awful techies. They then take terrible decisions that they expect their bright, junior techies to follow, which are batst mental, but the junior techie will never question their boss's "wisdom", even though their boss is a complete fkwit.
tting in business? I deal with Indian colleagues every day (offshore software support and development) and have been over there a couple of times (Hyderabad). My biggest frustration is that Indians, in general, are incapable of saying no, or admitting they don't know something, because of the 'loss of face' issue.I've had major systems go down, the conversation always goes like this:
Me: "System XYZ has gone down, the log shows return code 1234 from program ABC. Do you know what that is?"
Indian colleague: "Yes"
Me: "OK, what is it?"
Indian colleague: "I don't know"
It is infuriating. I don't expect them to know everything, but the level of bulls
tting is incredible. We would get on a lot better if they were able to say "I don't know, but I can find out". I find the heirachical system pretty hard work too. Nobody will question their boss, even if their boss is talking b
ks. In my field every one wants to be a techie for as short a time as possible, before becoming a manager, because being a manager has status. The problem I find is that it's the best bullstters that get promoted, who were most likely awful techies. They then take terrible decisions that they expect their bright, junior techies to follow, which are batst mental, but the junior techie will never question their boss's "wisdom", even though their boss is a complete fkwit. PurpleTurtle said:
How have you found the blatant bullstting in business? I deal with Indian colleagues every day (offshore software support and development) and have been over there a couple of times (Hyderabad). My biggest frustration is that Indians, in general, are incapable of saying no, or admitting they don't know something, because of the 'loss of face' issue.
I've had major systems go down, the conversation always goes like this:
Me: "System XYZ has gone down, the log shows return code 1234 from program ABC. Do you know what that is?"
Indian colleague: "Yes"
Me: "OK, what is it?"
Indian colleague: "I don't know"
It is infuriating. I don't expect them to know everything, but the level of bullstting is incredible. We would get on a lot better if they were able to say "I don't know, but I can find out".
I find the heirachical system pretty hard work too. Nobody will question their boss, even if their boss is talking bks. In my field every one wants to be a techie for as short a time as possible, before becoming a manager, because being a manager has status. The problem I find is that it's the best bullstters that get promoted, who were most likely awful techies. They then take terrible decisions that they expect their bright, junior techies to follow, which are batst mental, but the junior techie will never question their boss's "wisdom", even though their boss is a complete fkwit.
tting in business? I deal with Indian colleagues every day (offshore software support and development) and have been over there a couple of times (Hyderabad). My biggest frustration is that Indians, in general, are incapable of saying no, or admitting they don't know something, because of the 'loss of face' issue.I've had major systems go down, the conversation always goes like this:
Me: "System XYZ has gone down, the log shows return code 1234 from program ABC. Do you know what that is?"
Indian colleague: "Yes"
Me: "OK, what is it?"
Indian colleague: "I don't know"
It is infuriating. I don't expect them to know everything, but the level of bulls
tting is incredible. We would get on a lot better if they were able to say "I don't know, but I can find out". I find the heirachical system pretty hard work too. Nobody will question their boss, even if their boss is talking b
ks. In my field every one wants to be a techie for as short a time as possible, before becoming a manager, because being a manager has status. The problem I find is that it's the best bullstters that get promoted, who were most likely awful techies. They then take terrible decisions that they expect their bright, junior techies to follow, which are batst mental, but the junior techie will never question their boss's "wisdom", even though their boss is a complete fkwit. 
All the time.
And yes, they all look up to me for various things because I'm from "head office" (as far as I'm concerned, that means nothing special) and can't/won't make ANY decisions for themselves! How they will cope when I go home, I have no idea...
Thanks for the excellent write up, as somebody of Indian origin who visits the country regularly it is nice to see things from another perspective.
My parents made the decision to move to the UK long before I was born, but I've always thought that I would like to settle permanently in India one day. There is no doubt that quality of life in the UK is comparatively better, but I think it's sad that so many educated Indians are desperate to emigrate to the west when they are really the only people who could help India to become a fully developed nation; hence, I think I would like to set an example by being a western-born Indian moving back to my country of origin and using my skills to try and make the country a better place.
Not sure if I could live in Mumbai though; I've never been, but from what I've heard it sounds even more crowded than most other Indian cities. I have experience of both Delhi and Bangalore, so would probably choose to live there (or Jaipur, my 'home' city, where my relatives live).
My parents made the decision to move to the UK long before I was born, but I've always thought that I would like to settle permanently in India one day. There is no doubt that quality of life in the UK is comparatively better, but I think it's sad that so many educated Indians are desperate to emigrate to the west when they are really the only people who could help India to become a fully developed nation; hence, I think I would like to set an example by being a western-born Indian moving back to my country of origin and using my skills to try and make the country a better place.
Not sure if I could live in Mumbai though; I've never been, but from what I've heard it sounds even more crowded than most other Indian cities. I have experience of both Delhi and Bangalore, so would probably choose to live there (or Jaipur, my 'home' city, where my relatives live).
I had India added to my area of responsibility about 3 years ago.
We have a facility in Hyderabad where I visit regularly but also visit customers and suppliers north, south, east and west.
Everything said on here is so true. All the good, all the bad, rabid dogs, stink of st, beautiful women in Sari, rip off merchants, mad driving, poorest of the poor, filthy kids.
I'm hear the next eight weeks with a trip home in the middle to see my Wife.
The hotel are changing the restaurant menu for me to make me feel more at home.
I have never been made to feel so welcome anywhere.
I love siting in the back of the car watching live chaos theory in action and when the occasional close call happens, a wobbles of the head from both parties and they are on their way again.
I love the sign on the traffic light post saying 'keep Hyderabad beautiful' while 10 feet behind is a man peeing up the wall next a tipped up rubbish bin or the wall outside my hotel that reads "No urinating, Cemetery wall"
We have a facility in Hyderabad where I visit regularly but also visit customers and suppliers north, south, east and west.
Everything said on here is so true. All the good, all the bad, rabid dogs, stink of s
t, beautiful women in Sari, rip off merchants, mad driving, poorest of the poor, filthy kids.I'm hear the next eight weeks with a trip home in the middle to see my Wife.
The hotel are changing the restaurant menu for me to make me feel more at home.
I have never been made to feel so welcome anywhere.
I love siting in the back of the car watching live chaos theory in action and when the occasional close call happens, a wobbles of the head from both parties and they are on their way again.
I love the sign on the traffic light post saying 'keep Hyderabad beautiful' while 10 feet behind is a man peeing up the wall next a tipped up rubbish bin or the wall outside my hotel that reads "No urinating, Cemetery wall"
Car Fan said:
Thanks for the excellent write up, as somebody of Indian origin who visits the country regularly it is nice to see things from another perspective.
My parents made the decision to move to the UK long before I was born, but I've always thought that I would like to settle permanently in India one day. There is no doubt that quality of life in the UK is comparatively better, but I think it's sad that so many educated Indians are desperate to emigrate to the west when they are really the only people who could help India to become a fully developed nation; hence, I think I would like to set an example by being a western-born Indian moving back to my country of origin and using my skills to try and make the country a better place.
Not sure if I could live in Mumbai though; I've never been, but from what I've heard it sounds even more crowded than most other Indian cities. I have experience of both Delhi and Bangalore, so would probably choose to live there (or Jaipur, my 'home' city, where my relatives live).
My wife simply had to get out of there - she just had enough of the constant barrage of noise/smell/sights/crush/people etc... My parents made the decision to move to the UK long before I was born, but I've always thought that I would like to settle permanently in India one day. There is no doubt that quality of life in the UK is comparatively better, but I think it's sad that so many educated Indians are desperate to emigrate to the west when they are really the only people who could help India to become a fully developed nation; hence, I think I would like to set an example by being a western-born Indian moving back to my country of origin and using my skills to try and make the country a better place.
Not sure if I could live in Mumbai though; I've never been, but from what I've heard it sounds even more crowded than most other Indian cities. I have experience of both Delhi and Bangalore, so would probably choose to live there (or Jaipur, my 'home' city, where my relatives live).
Really interesting write up Bob.
I've never been to India but have always wanted to visit. I've been lucky enough to live in a few different countries now and it is always interesting to experience the differences and similarities with home.
Please keep us updated with more pictures and anecdotes, it is really fascinating stuff.
I've never been to India but have always wanted to visit. I've been lucky enough to live in a few different countries now and it is always interesting to experience the differences and similarities with home.
Please keep us updated with more pictures and anecdotes, it is really fascinating stuff.
hora said:
Erm can we have any pictures of these ladies? I'm struggling as I find them to be quite beautiful. 
Believe it or not, I don't have any photos of the ladies - mainly out of respect to the culture here - I would feel a little uncomfortable taking photos of them in the streets. If I get the opportunity to take a subtle photo or two, I will. I don't have any pics of the food yet - I'll remember to take some.
Whilst not a curry, vada pav is a fantastic food. "Indian burger", they call it - like a spiced potato samosa, with a sweet and sour sauce, in a roll. Bloody lovely. It's like a street food snack - I get smiles when I order them, and the guys in the office love it when I order a box full for a mid afternoon snack.
Not my pic, but...
Whilst not a curry, vada pav is a fantastic food. "Indian burger", they call it - like a spiced potato samosa, with a sweet and sour sauce, in a roll. Bloody lovely. It's like a street food snack - I get smiles when I order them, and the guys in the office love it when I order a box full for a mid afternoon snack.
Not my pic, but...
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