Life in Another Country - Long Version
Discussion
Some random photos. I'm no David Bailey so please forgive them being, well, s
te.
Another decorated truck. I love the eye on the front air vent flap.
Ad-hoc rickshaw repairs.
Parked in the way? No problem, we'll dig around you...
The local shopping area. Don't know if you can make it out, but the ceiling fan is the size of a helicopter rotor...
The City beach:
The posh bit (where I live)
And the not so posh - although you can buy or obtain any goods or service you want. Literally, anything. Everyone has a skill or a trade and they're bloody good at it too.
And finally for now, an example of the attitudes and knowledge about sex here - from the Mumbai "Ask the Sexpert" pages of the Daily Mirror...
Hope that gives a bit of a flavour. I will update more as I have it, or as more comes to mind
te. Another decorated truck. I love the eye on the front air vent flap.
Ad-hoc rickshaw repairs.
Parked in the way? No problem, we'll dig around you...
The local shopping area. Don't know if you can make it out, but the ceiling fan is the size of a helicopter rotor...
The City beach:
The posh bit (where I live)
And the not so posh - although you can buy or obtain any goods or service you want. Literally, anything. Everyone has a skill or a trade and they're bloody good at it too.
And finally for now, an example of the attitudes and knowledge about sex here - from the Mumbai "Ask the Sexpert" pages of the Daily Mirror...
Hope that gives a bit of a flavour. I will update more as I have it, or as more comes to mind
OpulentBob said:
hora said:
Erm can we have any pictures of these ladies? I'm struggling as I find them to be quite beautiful. 
Believe it or not, I don't have any photos of the ladies - mainly out of respect to the culture here - I would feel a little uncomfortable taking photos of them in the streets. If I get the opportunity to take a subtle photo or two, I will. Roo said:
Great read Bob.
I remember your thread asking for advice about taking the role and everyone telling you you'd love it.
It appears they were right.
Absolutely. I was worrying over nothing, it turns out. I'd recommend it to anyone - I know it's a cliche'd old thing to say, but if I can do it, then anyone can. I remember your thread asking for advice about taking the role and everyone telling you you'd love it.
It appears they were right.
OpulentBob said:
hora said:
Erm can we have any pictures of these ladies? I'm struggling as I find them to be quite beautiful.
Believe it or not, I don't have any photos of the ladies - mainly out of respect to the culture here - I would feel a little uncomfortable taking photos of them in the streets. If I get the opportunity to take a subtle photo or two, I will. 
On the caste thing, abhorrent as it is, how does anyone know what caste someone comes from?If someone comes from the country into Mumbai, surely he has all the opportunities available,or do job application forms ask about caste? Of course,opportunities BEFORE he leaves may be limited by being lower caste I imagine
kowalski655 said:
On the caste thing, abhorrent as it is, how does anyone know what caste someone comes from?If someone comes from the country into Mumbai, surely he has all the opportunities available,or do job application forms ask about caste? Of course,opportunities BEFORE he leaves may be limited by being lower caste I imagine
I don't know about private companies, but for government employment there are actually caste-based reservations biased in favour of lower castes to account for any previous opportunities that may have been unavailable for them. A huge percentage of government employees are now from lower caste backgrounds and are earning a good wage. Some have even suggested that these reservations are now unfair, as it means that a low caste person has a massively increased chance of getting a government role compared to a high caste person. I believe that similar reservations are in place for school/university places, etc.kowalski655 said:
OpulentBob said:
hora said:
Erm can we have any pictures of these ladies? I'm struggling as I find them to be quite beautiful.
Believe it or not, I don't have any photos of the ladies - mainly out of respect to the culture here - I would feel a little uncomfortable taking photos of them in the streets. If I get the opportunity to take a subtle photo or two, I will. On the caste thing, abhorrent as it is, how does anyone know what caste someone comes from?If someone comes from the country into Mumbai, surely he has all the opportunities available,or do job application forms ask about caste? Of course,opportunities BEFORE he leaves may be limited by being lower caste I imagine
Job applications, visa etc all ask for caste. It's supposed to be a dead thing, I guess like asking for marital status in the UK, but it's still "a thing". I think it's also reflected in surnames too, but I don't really understand all that. I learned today from the Beeb that "Patel" is a surname (obviously), AND a caste. And the older generation all still live by it. When today's generation is the one calling the shots, I think it will be less of a thing. It's a stigma, like our parents and grandparents have with the whole "gay" thing. To us under 40's, we couldn't give a toss, and I think the same will happen here in time. In 30 years, I think India will be a very different, tolerant and liberal place. The younger generation are all tattoo's, pierced, listen to "our" music, even if they don't fully understand the connotations. One colleague likes Eminem and Dre etc, and he asked me quite openly if we have "n****rs" in the UK, because he's heard the word so often in the music. He couldn't understand it when I told him to never say that word again, that it was simply unacceptable, and if he said it in public in the UK he would be lucky not to get a beating. I asked him how he would like being called a "p**i", and that it had a similarly negative meaning, and he simply said "But I am not Pakistani?". I gave up. Apparantly, even within Indians, the darker you are, the lower you are. Things like that are a little surprising and show the naivety of the place, and that there is still a fair way to go.
I've had a conversation about castes with the expats, in a "what shocks you the most out here" type chat, and all the Europeans felt the same way. The African guys didn't really seem that surprised, but I guess they have probably been on the receiving end of similar or worse in their time. The Germans are the most vocally anti-racism here. They will intervene in any situation where someone is seemingly being put down because they are darker or lower than others. It has definitely made me think about my own prejudices - I didn't think I had any/many before I came here, but I'll be more aware in future. Even things as simple as staring at ethnic clothing - having been stared at and having kids stare and point at you for being different, really brings it home that I could do more/be more accepting/less judgmental.
Here's the story about the Patel caste: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-3406533...
OpulentBob said:
Here's the story about the Patel caste: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-3406533...
This story is a good example of the problems that have arisen as a result of the caste-based quota system - castes that are perceived as being 'poorer' get certain benefits, to the extent that they are now often better off than castes such as the Patels who are typically seen as 'rich', even if that is not the case in reality. There have been accusations of lower caste people 'playing the system' to their advantage, I suppose much like some ethic minorities in the UK who are from privileged backgrounds might be accused of playing the race card to their advantage at times.OpulentBob said:
Apparently, even within Indians, the darker you are, the lower you are
Yes, unfortunately this is very much the case and I'm unsure if it will ever change, because the notion that Indians with lighter skin are superior is so deeply ingrained into culture and society. Most popular Bollywood actors have lighter skin tones, for example, and the market for skin whitening surgery and 'treatments' is worth hundreds of millions of dollars and heavily advertised in the Indian media.Edited by Car Fan on Thursday 27th August 18:14
Edited by Car Fan on Thursday 27th August 18:15
The dogs would have eaten the goat guts in no time... They're always licking up the blood when the butchers are slaughtering them.
And yeah, the cows are everywhere, even here. They don't care about traffic, just wander around, lay anywhere, as chilled out as can be, seen them in the car park at the hotel, or laying literally in front of the doorway at the supermarket, or eating the grass on the roundabout islands, they will go wherever they like at a steady 0.5mph. I don't think people drive around them and leave them alone because they're sacred - I think it's just that they would do substantial damage to a car if it hit them, and are too big to move manually!
And yeah, the cows are everywhere, even here. They don't care about traffic, just wander around, lay anywhere, as chilled out as can be, seen them in the car park at the hotel, or laying literally in front of the doorway at the supermarket, or eating the grass on the roundabout islands, they will go wherever they like at a steady 0.5mph. I don't think people drive around them and leave them alone because they're sacred - I think it's just that they would do substantial damage to a car if it hit them, and are too big to move manually!
Really interesting read - Thanks Bob
How's the actual road building or other projects actually going ? Got anything BIG planned, in regards to infrastructure ? How many people are in your team and how many people do they have under them ? Must be loads !
What's your favorite TV program ? Do you they have any stupid crazy TV programs that you just don't understand ? Can you still get the BBC World service out there ? Do the locals like playing/watching cricket or is that more of a myth ?
How's the actual road building or other projects actually going ? Got anything BIG planned, in regards to infrastructure ? How many people are in your team and how many people do they have under them ? Must be loads !
What's your favorite TV program ? Do you they have any stupid crazy TV programs that you just don't understand ? Can you still get the BBC World service out there ? Do the locals like playing/watching cricket or is that more of a myth ?
John_S4x4 said:
Really interesting read - Thanks Bob
How's the actual road building or other projects actually going ? Got anything BIG planned, in regards to infrastructure ? How many people are in your team and how many people do they have under them ? Must be loads !
What's your favorite TV program ? Do you they have any stupid crazy TV programs that you just don't understand ? Can you still get the BBC World service out there ? Do the locals like playing/watching cricket or is that more of a myth ?
I'm not doing any Indian projects as such - it's mainly getting very cheap designs of projects for the UK. I've dipped my fingers in some Indian designs, but there is so much land here that it's very very easy to design roads and bridges. The idea is to teach the guys here UK standards and practices and thinking. Here, if they need to move a village to build a road, they'll just move the village. Although saying that, about half a mile from the hotel there is a sacred tree, and a major arterial in to the City splits around this tree, and there is a temple to the tree in the middle of the road. My team is about 40-strong here, plus another 20 in Delhi, and the same again in Kolkata, and 5 or 6 in Pune. I've got delegates from here in each of the places, sending me back finished work, and there is sufficient tech here that we have regular web conferences and online working. I've not got out to Kolkata yet but I think I'll be going next month. I don't get a chance to see those places really, just fly in, have the design review/resourcing meetings, and fly back. I've seen Delhi a bit, but compared to Mumbai is it mental, ultra aggressive and even more chaotic than here. Fantastic new metro system though. World class. How's the actual road building or other projects actually going ? Got anything BIG planned, in regards to infrastructure ? How many people are in your team and how many people do they have under them ? Must be loads !
What's your favorite TV program ? Do you they have any stupid crazy TV programs that you just don't understand ? Can you still get the BBC World service out there ? Do the locals like playing/watching cricket or is that more of a myth ?
TV programmes are hard to find - everything is in Hindi/Marathi. I generally watch films if I watch TV at all - we get Star Sports which is I think a syndicate of Sky, so I get regular live footy and the Ashes etc, but the time difference is a bit of a b
h. The films are bizarre - everything is subtitled in English and the censorship is CRAZY. Anything that "might" cause offence is bleeped out, although it's unreliable. I've seen "beefburger" bleeped out and starred out of the subtitles, yet in Kill Bill they keep the c**t references AND the subtitles. "Hell" (as in "F'ing Hell") gets translated as "Inferno", it's quite funny. Not allowed Son of a bh, or Ass, or bd. Oh, and no sex or rude bits are shown. No bums, DEFINITELY no breasts, ever. Most sex scenes in films are removed altogether. Drugs are cut out, as is a lot of gore/blood. Yet they will show Kill Bill at 10am on a Saturday morning. I watched Doom the other day, and the film was about 20 minutes shorter than IMDB said it should be. Same with Dredd. Lots of TV programmes that I don't get - it's all about the culture I think, so there are things you would have to be Indian to understand. They do have The Voice/India's Got Talent etc, but I hate those in the UK so I'm not going to watch them here...
The cricket thing is certainly true. They all play it, anywhere and everywhere. On the pavement, in any clear space, the hotel lobbies, anywhere. At half past 7 on my drive to the office, I pass a playing field and 4 days out of 5 there is a full on cricket game going on, all ages play, they play it properly too, 2 batsmen, full fielders, but with 2 breeze blocks as stumps - very "jumpers for goalposts". I went to see the IPL too, saw the Mumbai Indians play the Kolkata Knight Riders at the w
khede (pronounced "wk-a-day" fnar), and the crowd was akin to a huge rock festival. I've never heard such noise at a sporting event, especially not something as "calm" as cricket. It was insane, but bloody brilliant. But insane. Very very loud, deafeningly so. As loud as being at the front of the crowd at Glastonbury, easily. Ears rang for days afterwards.A couple of poor pics - the place was shaking, it was hard to hold the camera steady... All the blue isn't empty seats, it's the big flags they gave to the entirely partisan crowd. I'm taking mine home and framing it for the memories. Saw Malinga do his thing, he is the man. Also Sachin Tendulkar and Amitabh Bhachin (sp?), probably the most viewed movie star on the planet - the crowd went so wild, I thought the place was going to collapse.
Yeah, cricket is huge here. Bigger than football in the UK, up there with maybe a royal wedding, maybe even bigger than that. Never seen anything like it. As stereotypical as head wobbling and bollywood dancing!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It really is! I use that phrase all the time with my Indian colleagues. They laugh and agree... "But you are paid in Pounds, and we in Rupees - It's the blessing of a creamy face Sir!"
Tax reminds me, I have a PAN card, which is an income tax card normally reserved for Indian nationals - I pay tax here so qualify for one. I use it as photo ID, much easier than taking a passport everywhere. The number of times I've shown it, got an inquisitive look, and been told, "But sir, you are not Indian!" - I have to bite my tongue if it's an armed policeman at an airport. I have a couple of times been exasperated with it though, when hot and tired and when I just want to get a train or plane, and demanded to see the Sargeant. Then he comes over, says the same thing, and you have to go through the spiel - "Look, I live here, work here, and pay tax here - why are you discriminating against me just because I am white?!" which seems a bit weird, and I have to try really hard not to smile or laugh when I say it. But they accept it in the end, with much muttering and discussion (in Hindi) between themselves, co-workers, and even the other passengers... But it means you've got a point of conversation with your fellow travellers who you're sitting next to for the next few hours so it's not all bad. My surname is "White" too, which also amuses them no end.
It's a funny old place!
OpulentBob said:
I don't have any pics of the food yet - I'll remember to take some.
Whilst not a curry, vada pav is a fantastic food. "Indian burger", they call it - like a spiced potato samosa, with a sweet and sour sauce, in a roll. Bloody lovely. It's like a street food snack - I get smiles when I order them, and the guys in the office love it when I order a box full for a mid afternoon snack.
Not my pic, but...
Have you had Pav Bhaji yet?Whilst not a curry, vada pav is a fantastic food. "Indian burger", they call it - like a spiced potato samosa, with a sweet and sour sauce, in a roll. Bloody lovely. It's like a street food snack - I get smiles when I order them, and the guys in the office love it when I order a box full for a mid afternoon snack.
Not my pic, but...
That's my fave street food.
Asterix said:
What about idli and stuff for breaky? I'm not a fan of the rice stuff like dosa mainly for the texture but I do love the food my mum in law cooks - you can't get better.
I'm in a hotel so I lux it up and have 2 eggs benedict every morning... My little creature comfort every day! And John, no problem at all, I'm a bit touched that people are so interested!
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