Marriage, How much is she worth?
Discussion
C.A.R. said:
My stance is that I won't consider getting married until the other obligations / plans are fulfilled, which effectively means insisting she returns to work full-time. I suggested this once - at my cost - and the response was that she should be a stay at home mum until our children are in full time education "didn't have children just to have someone else look after them" I think was the line.
Good luck. Thanks to all of those who have posted, good or bad.
Hopefully I won't miss any of the points raised,
To answer a few questions, I'm nearly 27 years old. Yes, we ended up having our first child early in the relationship, but it was a joint decision and not a mistake, and I'm totally devoted to my children and their proper upbringing. So that bit is perhaps arse-about-face, but we both wanted children whilst we were still young and I fully appreciate that it was our choice and responsibility to do things in this order.
The topic has come about recently because I'm potentially getting a new job with a decent pay increase at the same time. I see this as money which we can now use to effectively clear our debt in perhaps as little as 12 months whilst still being able to afford a cheap holiday next year - whereas she sees it as good reason to set a date to get married.
As for marriage costs we are naturally comparing ballpark figures our friends and relatives have indicated to us from recent weddings and I think that the whole event should cost not more than 6-7k whilst still keeping her very happy. It's just the timing.
As others have alluded to I don't think I will ever have the upper hand here and will more than likely end up setting a date in the next 18 months.
As for my partners work situation, she is currently on maternity leave having just about qualified to receive maternity pay, and is set to return to work in March. This only really brings in around 7k per annum however, which is generally enough to cover her car insurance, clothing for our children and the weekly groceries.
Unlike much of PH would have you believe in the first time buyers thread we don't have swathes of direct debit payments going out on frivolities every month and don't have the latest swanky iPhone etc, we just put our children before all else and as I'm sure many of you are aware, they can be very expensive! Having said that our daughters main birthday present is 2nd hand this year so we can be pretty frugal with spending when it comes to it.
I suppose my main concern and reason for posting is that I can see a worst-case scenario here (for me) and that is -
I get the better paid job
I get into more debt borrowing money to pay for a 'premature' wedding
She doesn't go back to full time work for longer than anticipated
I end up being the only source of income but now have more debt to repay because of poor planning.
I'd love to sit her down and draw out a plan for our future both financially and in terms of getting wed, but I don't think it will be that easy; she will bring emotion into it and make me feel guilty for not being able to afford to pay for our wedding...
Hopefully I won't miss any of the points raised,
To answer a few questions, I'm nearly 27 years old. Yes, we ended up having our first child early in the relationship, but it was a joint decision and not a mistake, and I'm totally devoted to my children and their proper upbringing. So that bit is perhaps arse-about-face, but we both wanted children whilst we were still young and I fully appreciate that it was our choice and responsibility to do things in this order.
The topic has come about recently because I'm potentially getting a new job with a decent pay increase at the same time. I see this as money which we can now use to effectively clear our debt in perhaps as little as 12 months whilst still being able to afford a cheap holiday next year - whereas she sees it as good reason to set a date to get married.
As for marriage costs we are naturally comparing ballpark figures our friends and relatives have indicated to us from recent weddings and I think that the whole event should cost not more than 6-7k whilst still keeping her very happy. It's just the timing.
As others have alluded to I don't think I will ever have the upper hand here and will more than likely end up setting a date in the next 18 months.
As for my partners work situation, she is currently on maternity leave having just about qualified to receive maternity pay, and is set to return to work in March. This only really brings in around 7k per annum however, which is generally enough to cover her car insurance, clothing for our children and the weekly groceries.
Unlike much of PH would have you believe in the first time buyers thread we don't have swathes of direct debit payments going out on frivolities every month and don't have the latest swanky iPhone etc, we just put our children before all else and as I'm sure many of you are aware, they can be very expensive! Having said that our daughters main birthday present is 2nd hand this year so we can be pretty frugal with spending when it comes to it.
I suppose my main concern and reason for posting is that I can see a worst-case scenario here (for me) and that is -
I get the better paid job
I get into more debt borrowing money to pay for a 'premature' wedding
She doesn't go back to full time work for longer than anticipated
I end up being the only source of income but now have more debt to repay because of poor planning.
I'd love to sit her down and draw out a plan for our future both financially and in terms of getting wed, but I don't think it will be that easy; she will bring emotion into it and make me feel guilty for not being able to afford to pay for our wedding...
I'm sorry, but that's just staggering.
You have no money at all, you're in debt, you have no home of your own, you have young children, and you're thinking of borrowing £6-7K for (effectively) a great big one day party just to keep your partner temporarily happy? (Bearing in mind you could actually get married for a couple of hundred quid - the rest is a big party).
The very best of luck with your relationship...
You have no money at all, you're in debt, you have no home of your own, you have young children, and you're thinking of borrowing £6-7K for (effectively) a great big one day party just to keep your partner temporarily happy? (Bearing in mind you could actually get married for a couple of hundred quid - the rest is a big party).
The very best of luck with your relationship...
C.A.R. said:
Rather than start my own self-pitying thread I thought this topic was relevant enough for my predicament...
I'll paint the picture -
Been together almost 5 years
2 daughters, one 3yrs and one 3 months
Privately rent
~4.5k credit card debt
I work full time, partner is on maternity leave with pay, won't be intending to return to part-time work until next March...
I'm feeling pressured to commit to a date to get hitched. We have been engaged for around 2 years now and she feels it's 'time'
However, my head says there are more important life goals we must achieve first. For one, clearing that joint debt (which is in my name). From there, I'd like the security or at least be on our way to saving for our own place, as privately renting is ideally only a 2-3 year plan. I can't put the level of saving required for this into effect until she is back to working full time again, something which she doesn't want to do until our youngest is going to school / nursery - so 3 years away.
At the same time our friends and relatives of similar age are getting wed. Mainly with huge cash injection from bank of mum and dad - something I don't agree with at all, I watched my own sister sink her claws into my dad and take him for thousands over the last few years and it disgusts me. If they want to help then fine, but I'm not going to them cap-in-hand.
Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? My stance is that I won't consider getting married until the other obligations / plans are fulfilled, which effectively means insisting she returns to work full-time. I suggested this once - at my cost - and the response was that she should be a stay at home mum until our children are in full time education "didn't have children just to have someone else look after them" I think was the line. This seems a bit rich, to me, whilst I'm fully aware that being a full time mum is hard work (as I'm constantly reminded) it's not tantamount to actually bringing in a 15-20k salary, it's a lifestyle choice.
So over to PH - should I bow to pressure and commit to a date and effectively put all my other plans on hold for 24 months or so, or should I stand my ground and try to encourage my partner that these plans will be better for all of us in the long term?
I understand it's important for a woman to get married whilst she is still young and it's 'fashionable' to do it in your twenties, but surely common sense has to apply here, over and above 'love'?
Sorry, but I see this as a problem area that can only grow bigger. Essentially, the two of you are already pursuing significantly different ways forward and she seems ready to dig her heels in and refuse to go along with your ideas. I have a feeling that this is not heading for a happy ending.I'll paint the picture -
Been together almost 5 years
2 daughters, one 3yrs and one 3 months
Privately rent
~4.5k credit card debt
I work full time, partner is on maternity leave with pay, won't be intending to return to part-time work until next March...
I'm feeling pressured to commit to a date to get hitched. We have been engaged for around 2 years now and she feels it's 'time'
However, my head says there are more important life goals we must achieve first. For one, clearing that joint debt (which is in my name). From there, I'd like the security or at least be on our way to saving for our own place, as privately renting is ideally only a 2-3 year plan. I can't put the level of saving required for this into effect until she is back to working full time again, something which she doesn't want to do until our youngest is going to school / nursery - so 3 years away.
At the same time our friends and relatives of similar age are getting wed. Mainly with huge cash injection from bank of mum and dad - something I don't agree with at all, I watched my own sister sink her claws into my dad and take him for thousands over the last few years and it disgusts me. If they want to help then fine, but I'm not going to them cap-in-hand.
Am I being unreasonable in my expectations? My stance is that I won't consider getting married until the other obligations / plans are fulfilled, which effectively means insisting she returns to work full-time. I suggested this once - at my cost - and the response was that she should be a stay at home mum until our children are in full time education "didn't have children just to have someone else look after them" I think was the line. This seems a bit rich, to me, whilst I'm fully aware that being a full time mum is hard work (as I'm constantly reminded) it's not tantamount to actually bringing in a 15-20k salary, it's a lifestyle choice.
So over to PH - should I bow to pressure and commit to a date and effectively put all my other plans on hold for 24 months or so, or should I stand my ground and try to encourage my partner that these plans will be better for all of us in the long term?
I understand it's important for a woman to get married whilst she is still young and it's 'fashionable' to do it in your twenties, but surely common sense has to apply here, over and above 'love'?
Ok so for an open question just as its topical... What if both partners were fairly equal before marriage and one of them had a large inheritance come through after the loss of their parents. How would that get viewed upon if they did ever get divorced?
Should they both just walk away with 50% of the now much larger estate? Or would the origins of the money be looked into differently should it ever come to the worst and they couldn't agree on a settlement?
I suspect the only winners would be the lawyers/solicitors!
Should they both just walk away with 50% of the now much larger estate? Or would the origins of the money be looked into differently should it ever come to the worst and they couldn't agree on a settlement?
I suspect the only winners would be the lawyers/solicitors!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
CAR. Your OH wants it all and you are going to pay for it. Either through your pay rise or debt. That money could form a chunk of a deposit on a house.
£6/7k for a wedding for her, as that is what it is, is bonkers.
You two do not sound compatible. She has you where she wants you.
How would she react if you proposed spending £6k on a nice car or bike? Just for you.
Or if you proposed that you both worked part time and shared child care?
She wants to be a perma Mum with you footing the bills. Very 1960s.
Be careful what you commit to. I fear you will be unhappy for a long long time if you capitulate.
To 'some', not all of the guys who think their partners are happy not getting married. When I was single I used to love meeting those women as a choice few words meant free, non-committal, dirty, experimental sex. Followed by packing them off back home to you.
Again, not all of you, but some who think they are secure. There's more to life than cash - believe it or not!
Again, not all of you, but some who think they are secure. There's more to life than cash - believe it or not!
jshell said:
To 'some', not all of the guys who think their partners are happy not getting married. When I was single I used to love meeting those women as a choice few words meant free, non-committal, dirty, experimental sex. Followed by packing them off back home to you.
Again, not all of you, but some who think they are secure. There's more to life than cash - believe it or not!
It sounds like the 'some' would be better off without their partners in that case, and makes more sense not to marry the cheating bint?Again, not all of you, but some who think they are secure. There's more to life than cash - believe it or not!
csd19 said:
It sounds like the 'some' would be better off without their partners in that case, and makes more sense not to marry the cheating bint?
Point being that a lot of women are trying not to push the whole marriage thing too hard in case it scares the guy off or damages relations. At the same time them not being happy about the situation introduces 'opportunities' for the single guy. A little drunk, feeling a little low, needs some comfort, hears the right words and takes a chance for some short-term intimacy.In some cases, of course not all.
I'm just saying that guys often get too complacent and the world is full of sharks/chancers/shaggers/lotharios and emotional women.
MrChips said:
Ok so for an open question just as its topical... What if both partners were fairly equal before marriage and one of them had a large inheritance come through after the loss of their parents. How would that get viewed upon if they did ever get divorced?
Should they both just walk away with 50% of the now much larger estate? Or would the origins of the money be looked into differently should it ever come to the worst and they couldn't agree on a settlement?
I suspect the only winners would be the lawyers/solicitors!
Depends on a lot of factors. Inheritance is not necessarily treated as distinct from other forms of marital income, but as always in ancillary relief, the precise circumstances are very important. In practice, the relative size of the inheritance to income and the way it is treated by the couple during the marriage are usually the most important. Should they both just walk away with 50% of the now much larger estate? Or would the origins of the money be looked into differently should it ever come to the worst and they couldn't agree on a settlement?
I suspect the only winners would be the lawyers/solicitors!
jshell said:
Point being that a lot of women are trying not to push the whole marriage thing too hard in case it scares the guy off or damages relations. At the same time them not being happy about the situation introduces 'opportunities' for the single guy. A little drunk, feeling a little low, needs some comfort, hears the right words and takes a chance for some short-term intimacy.
In some cases, of course not all.
I'm just saying that guys often get too complacent and the world is full of sharks/chancers/shaggers/lotharios and emotional women.
And you think that the kind of woman happy to cheat with a long term partner because she's not getting exactly what she wants will magically change into this chaste, faithful perfect spouse once the ring is on her finger? In some cases, of course not all.
I'm just saying that guys often get too complacent and the world is full of sharks/chancers/shaggers/lotharios and emotional women.
Sorry mate but I've got news for you. Women (and men for that matter) who cheat are just people who cheat. They don't go through a character transformation as part of the ceremony.
Ari said:
And you think that the kind of woman happy to cheat with a long term partner because she's not getting exactly what she wants will magically change into this chaste, faithful perfect spouse once the ring is on her finger?
Sorry mate but I've got news for you. Women (and men for that matter) who cheat are just people who cheat. They don't go through a character transformation as part of the ceremony.
I think the bold bit of my post covered he fact that it's not a catch-all situation.Sorry mate but I've got news for you. Women (and men for that matter) who cheat are just people who cheat. They don't go through a character transformation as part of the ceremony.
However, I do believe that personal circumstances and emotional state can lead people to do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do.
I don't believe the absolute polarity exists that means there are cheaters/non-cheaters. People are affected by their own situation or position at any time of their life.
One of my sons has just got married and it cost around 10k. But they could afford it, they saved up (hard) for two years.
One of my other sons would like to get married but can't afford to, but his girlfriend (a lovely quiet girl) would be quite happy with a low key wedding for a few friends, rent a cricket club for £100 and about £500 for the grub.
What staggers me is these people that go to Barbados, blow £30,000 and then get divorced a year later....idiots.
You should do what is right for you, not try to "outdo" your friends.
And don't get me started on the price of wedding photographers...
One of my other sons would like to get married but can't afford to, but his girlfriend (a lovely quiet girl) would be quite happy with a low key wedding for a few friends, rent a cricket club for £100 and about £500 for the grub.
What staggers me is these people that go to Barbados, blow £30,000 and then get divorced a year later....idiots.
You should do what is right for you, not try to "outdo" your friends.
And don't get me started on the price of wedding photographers...
Wacky Racer said:
One of my other sons would like to get married but can't afford to, but his girlfriend (a lovely quiet girl) would be quite happy with a low key wedding for a few friends, rent a cricket club for £100 and about £500 for the grub.
£600 for a wedding!!! Do people seriously spend that much? More money than sense. @ C.A.R. - It seems there are two threads here all being mixed up under the Marriage banner.
Your thread financials - Your thinking is spot on. Try to get your debt down, use your new found salary to improve your families financial position. That really has nothing to do with marriage at all.
Your partners thread. Wants to be a full time mum, kids more important than a career, wants to be married and have a "special" wedding day. Nothing wrong with any of that either I'd say.
Marriage is about commitment first and fore most. Its a promise to love and cherish each other for life. Its not about the wedding day at all (regardless of what the media crams down young girls throats). Since you have kids with the lady, lets face it you already made a big commitment to her now anyway. So if you love her, why not marry her. If she wants to be a full time mum whilst the kids are young, I would not push her to go back to work full time. Her children are the most important thing in her life, you are now secondary. If she's smart she soon realize the best way to care for them is with the support of a good/happy husband so you'll be a very very close second!
Back on financials though, she can have the special day but not by taking on £7K debt. The people make it special really, not the fancy venue, honey moon etc... I'd pitch it to her along the lines of how you want to be with her, want to make the commitment ya de da, but having massive debt which will take (insert x amount of years/months) will only stop you giving your kids nice xmases etc.. Talking money facts with women never works, focus on the emotions and use a bit reverse psychology here! The one bit I would cave a bit on is the dress though, that IS a big deal. I'd set a wedding budget (£1K?), plan to save up the money needed and plan the date based on that target date.
Good luck!
Your thread financials - Your thinking is spot on. Try to get your debt down, use your new found salary to improve your families financial position. That really has nothing to do with marriage at all.
Your partners thread. Wants to be a full time mum, kids more important than a career, wants to be married and have a "special" wedding day. Nothing wrong with any of that either I'd say.
Marriage is about commitment first and fore most. Its a promise to love and cherish each other for life. Its not about the wedding day at all (regardless of what the media crams down young girls throats). Since you have kids with the lady, lets face it you already made a big commitment to her now anyway. So if you love her, why not marry her. If she wants to be a full time mum whilst the kids are young, I would not push her to go back to work full time. Her children are the most important thing in her life, you are now secondary. If she's smart she soon realize the best way to care for them is with the support of a good/happy husband so you'll be a very very close second!
Back on financials though, she can have the special day but not by taking on £7K debt. The people make it special really, not the fancy venue, honey moon etc... I'd pitch it to her along the lines of how you want to be with her, want to make the commitment ya de da, but having massive debt which will take (insert x amount of years/months) will only stop you giving your kids nice xmases etc.. Talking money facts with women never works, focus on the emotions and use a bit reverse psychology here! The one bit I would cave a bit on is the dress though, that IS a big deal. I'd set a wedding budget (£1K?), plan to save up the money needed and plan the date based on that target date.
Good luck!
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