Child Day Off From School. Am I Wrong?
Discussion
Ok, cheers for the responses.
Clearly I made the mistake of going by the book.
Not something I normally do but trying to teach her proper moral values, may have to show her how rules can become a little grey.
Looking at the guidelines linked earlier schools do seem have leeway to grant leave for educational trips but I can see how it is difficult for them.
Now have to decide whether to simply up and go or not.
Clearly I made the mistake of going by the book.
Not something I normally do but trying to teach her proper moral values, may have to show her how rules can become a little grey.
Looking at the guidelines linked earlier schools do seem have leeway to grant leave for educational trips but I can see how it is difficult for them.
Now have to decide whether to simply up and go or not.
Axionknight said:
Frankly for a one off occasion with such merits I wouldn't even have asked - I'd have just claimed she had a fever or some such.
I wouldn't suggest lying - especially as a 6yr old is likely to blab. 
I suppose how you handle these things depends on your relationship with the teacher - for a 6yr old child, even fairly early in the school year, you should have met the teacher a few times by now so should be able to judge how to check she isn't going to be missing anything specific and let the teacher know she won't be in that day.
My parents would take me out of school for educational trips.
My Dad would just do it and had there been an argument I feel sure he would have asked them to match the stimulation/education/ life long memory on that day.
Off the top of my head from my childhood I had days of school to:
Meet Jimmy Carter.
Travel on the first Inter City 125 train on the East Coast Main Line
Climb all over Concorde in a maintenance hangar.
Climb all over a Spitfire.
Watch the historic departure of a warship for the Falklands.
Meet Chris Bonnington.
You'll be broadening your daughter's mind. Stimulating her interest in space, science and giving her a day she'll remember for ever.
On that given day, can her school match that?
Sadly for an easy life I'd play the "sick" card but don't tell her to keep quiet about it at school. Why should she stay shtum about having caring intelligent parents who think about their kids and spend time with them on things like this.?
She's lucky to have you as a dad.
My Dad would just do it and had there been an argument I feel sure he would have asked them to match the stimulation/education/ life long memory on that day.
Off the top of my head from my childhood I had days of school to:
Meet Jimmy Carter.
Travel on the first Inter City 125 train on the East Coast Main Line
Climb all over Concorde in a maintenance hangar.
Climb all over a Spitfire.
Watch the historic departure of a warship for the Falklands.
Meet Chris Bonnington.
You'll be broadening your daughter's mind. Stimulating her interest in space, science and giving her a day she'll remember for ever.
On that given day, can her school match that?
Sadly for an easy life I'd play the "sick" card but don't tell her to keep quiet about it at school. Why should she stay shtum about having caring intelligent parents who think about their kids and spend time with them on things like this.?
She's lucky to have you as a dad.
k is the school going to do about it?I'd just take her anyway and if challenged, ask the school to provide an itinerary of what was covered in class that day (bearing in mind it will be a few days before they break up for Christmas, so probably not very much!), then counter that with your own itinerary of what she got out of the day and ask the headmaster/mistress whether they see any benefit in taking in further......
pc.iow said:
Search for Jon platt Isle of Wight, he has won a legal battle over here as he took his kids on holiday. They have since gone on to appeal the decision at a cost to the island tax payers of around £10,000.
I'm on a phone so cannot post links until tonight(cos I don't know how too).
He will probably win again.
But it's worth noting this was in Magistrates Court and has not set a precedent. Also schools under the same authority control as the IOW school have issued the following reminder to parents:I'm on a phone so cannot post links until tonight(cos I don't know how too).
He will probably win again.
Letter said:
Attendance Information for parents/carers
There is much research that shows a strong correlation between high attendance and high attainment
for all children. A recent publication from the Department for Education (DfE) publication
indicated that even missing a short amount of time from school can reduce every pupil’s
chance of securing the grades they are capable of achieving (DfE (February 2015) The link between absence and attainment at KS2 and KS4 2012/13).
Following the recent decision by Isle of Wight magistrates to not hear a case against a father
who removed his child from school for a holiday during term time, we wish to clarify for all our
parents and carers both the current implications of this case; and the current position on absence
from school particularly regarding holidays during term time.
The first is that:
the Isle of Wight decision did not set a legal precedent, because magistrates’ decisions
are not binding on other courts
headteachers must continue to comply with the 2013 amendment to the Education (Pupil
Registration) (England) (2006) Regulations 2013 which means that they cannot authorise
a leave of absence from school unless it is exceptional
parents/carers must comply with Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Despite the recent decision of the magistrates on the Isle of Wight (which may be subject to
appeal), parents and carers can be failing to comply with section 444 of the Education Act if
their child has unauthorised absences even if those unauthorised absences are for a family holiday.
As such all local authorities and their Headteachers must continue to follow the law on attendance
and implement the government’s guidance around attendance. This remains the legal expectation
for all education authorities, and supports children in attending their statutory entitlement
of 190 days per year. As a result the Isle of Wight and Hampshire County Council has
reviewed the legal position in relation to the code of conduct for issuing penalty notices for
unauthorised absence from school, and our code of conduct currently remains unchanged.
It is of vital importance that all of us – the local authority, families, schools and children – do
all we can to ensure children achieve the highest levels of attendance.
I have recently received a penalty notice, does the case on the Isle of Wight affect whether I should pay?
If you have received a penalty notice regarding school attendance, you are expected to pay
this within the statutory period as detailed within the paperwork issued, or you may be subject
to legal action.
There is much research that shows a strong correlation between high attendance and high attainment
for all children. A recent publication from the Department for Education (DfE) publication
indicated that even missing a short amount of time from school can reduce every pupil’s
chance of securing the grades they are capable of achieving (DfE (February 2015) The link between absence and attainment at KS2 and KS4 2012/13).
Following the recent decision by Isle of Wight magistrates to not hear a case against a father
who removed his child from school for a holiday during term time, we wish to clarify for all our
parents and carers both the current implications of this case; and the current position on absence
from school particularly regarding holidays during term time.
The first is that:
the Isle of Wight decision did not set a legal precedent, because magistrates’ decisions
are not binding on other courts
headteachers must continue to comply with the 2013 amendment to the Education (Pupil
Registration) (England) (2006) Regulations 2013 which means that they cannot authorise
a leave of absence from school unless it is exceptional
parents/carers must comply with Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Despite the recent decision of the magistrates on the Isle of Wight (which may be subject to
appeal), parents and carers can be failing to comply with section 444 of the Education Act if
their child has unauthorised absences even if those unauthorised absences are for a family holiday.
As such all local authorities and their Headteachers must continue to follow the law on attendance
and implement the government’s guidance around attendance. This remains the legal expectation
for all education authorities, and supports children in attending their statutory entitlement
of 190 days per year. As a result the Isle of Wight and Hampshire County Council has
reviewed the legal position in relation to the code of conduct for issuing penalty notices for
unauthorised absence from school, and our code of conduct currently remains unchanged.
It is of vital importance that all of us – the local authority, families, schools and children – do
all we can to ensure children achieve the highest levels of attendance.
I have recently received a penalty notice, does the case on the Isle of Wight affect whether I should pay?
If you have received a penalty notice regarding school attendance, you are expected to pay
this within the statutory period as detailed within the paperwork issued, or you may be subject
to legal action.
That's madness, no OP you are certainly not wrong!!
Another great example of a brilliant parent giving their child an excellent opportunity to develop their interests whilst attempting to follow the school rules only for some muppet who cannot appreciate that some holidays/trips can indeed be education & potentially life changing to spoil things.
I'd suggest that the OP make an appointment to see the Head Teacher or relevant authority/PTA in the school in order to explain that this trip is not to be missed. Perhaps a compromise would be to ask the teachers to provide the homework/learning objectives for the day the child will miss school so they can ensure they are not behind in any way.
Another great example of a brilliant parent giving their child an excellent opportunity to develop their interests whilst attempting to follow the school rules only for some muppet who cannot appreciate that some holidays/trips can indeed be education & potentially life changing to spoil things.
I'd suggest that the OP make an appointment to see the Head Teacher or relevant authority/PTA in the school in order to explain that this trip is not to be missed. Perhaps a compromise would be to ask the teachers to provide the homework/learning objectives for the day the child will miss school so they can ensure they are not behind in any way.
I think with these sorts of things you should trust your own instinct and judgment rather than allow petty rules to dictate what you do.
There is no doubt in my mind that your daughter will benefit far more educationally from going to the Space Centre than she will a day in class towards the end of the term. I appreciate that schools have their hands tied on these sorts of matters and that you've tried to do the right thing by getting it pre-approved, but the outcome is completely unsatisfactory.
I'd go back to the school, thank them for their response, explain why I disagreed with it and then confirm that she won't be attending that day. As others have suggested, I'd outline clearly the benefits that she'll gain by going and I'd also ask them for details of the planned lessons on the understanding that I'd take my own time to cover that material with her over the weekend/Christmas holidays.
There is no doubt in my mind that your daughter will benefit far more educationally from going to the Space Centre than she will a day in class towards the end of the term. I appreciate that schools have their hands tied on these sorts of matters and that you've tried to do the right thing by getting it pre-approved, but the outcome is completely unsatisfactory.
I'd go back to the school, thank them for their response, explain why I disagreed with it and then confirm that she won't be attending that day. As others have suggested, I'd outline clearly the benefits that she'll gain by going and I'd also ask them for details of the planned lessons on the understanding that I'd take my own time to cover that material with her over the weekend/Christmas holidays.
Impasse said:
pc.iow said:
Search for Jon platt Isle of Wight, he has won a legal battle over here as he took his kids on holiday. They have since gone on to appeal the decision at a cost to the island tax payers of around £10,000.
I'm on a phone so cannot post links until tonight(cos I don't know how too).
He will probably win again.
But it's worth noting this was in Magistrates Court and has not set a precedent. Also schools under the same authority control as the IOW school have issued the following reminder to parents:I'm on a phone so cannot post links until tonight(cos I don't know how too).
He will probably win again.
Letter said:
Attendance Information for parents/carers
There is much research that shows a strong correlation between high attendance and high attainment
for all children. A recent publication from the Department for Education (DfE) publication
indicated that even missing a short amount of time from school can reduce every pupil’s
chance of securing the grades they are capable of achieving (DfE (February 2015) The link between absence and attainment at KS2 and KS4 2012/13).
Following the recent decision by Isle of Wight magistrates to not hear a case against a father
who removed his child from school for a holiday during term time, we wish to clarify for all our
parents and carers both the current implications of this case; and the current position on absence
from school particularly regarding holidays during term time.
The first is that:
the Isle of Wight decision did not set a legal precedent, because magistrates’ decisions
are not binding on other courts
headteachers must continue to comply with the 2013 amendment to the Education (Pupil
Registration) (England) (2006) Regulations 2013 which means that they cannot authorise
a leave of absence from school unless it is exceptional
parents/carers must comply with Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Despite the recent decision of the magistrates on the Isle of Wight (which may be subject to
appeal), parents and carers can be failing to comply with section 444 of the Education Act if
their child has unauthorised absences even if those unauthorised absences are for a family holiday.
As such all local authorities and their Headteachers must continue to follow the law on attendance
and implement the government’s guidance around attendance. This remains the legal expectation
for all education authorities, and supports children in attending their statutory entitlement
of 190 days per year. As a result the Isle of Wight and Hampshire County Council has
reviewed the legal position in relation to the code of conduct for issuing penalty notices for
unauthorised absence from school, and our code of conduct currently remains unchanged.
It is of vital importance that all of us – the local authority, families, schools and children – do
all we can to ensure children achieve the highest levels of attendance.
I have recently received a penalty notice, does the case on the Isle of Wight affect whether I should pay?
If you have received a penalty notice regarding school attendance, you are expected to pay
this within the statutory period as detailed within the paperwork issued, or you may be subject
to legal action.
There is much research that shows a strong correlation between high attendance and high attainment
for all children. A recent publication from the Department for Education (DfE) publication
indicated that even missing a short amount of time from school can reduce every pupil’s
chance of securing the grades they are capable of achieving (DfE (February 2015) The link between absence and attainment at KS2 and KS4 2012/13).
Following the recent decision by Isle of Wight magistrates to not hear a case against a father
who removed his child from school for a holiday during term time, we wish to clarify for all our
parents and carers both the current implications of this case; and the current position on absence
from school particularly regarding holidays during term time.
The first is that:
the Isle of Wight decision did not set a legal precedent, because magistrates’ decisions
are not binding on other courts
headteachers must continue to comply with the 2013 amendment to the Education (Pupil
Registration) (England) (2006) Regulations 2013 which means that they cannot authorise
a leave of absence from school unless it is exceptional
parents/carers must comply with Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Despite the recent decision of the magistrates on the Isle of Wight (which may be subject to
appeal), parents and carers can be failing to comply with section 444 of the Education Act if
their child has unauthorised absences even if those unauthorised absences are for a family holiday.
As such all local authorities and their Headteachers must continue to follow the law on attendance
and implement the government’s guidance around attendance. This remains the legal expectation
for all education authorities, and supports children in attending their statutory entitlement
of 190 days per year. As a result the Isle of Wight and Hampshire County Council has
reviewed the legal position in relation to the code of conduct for issuing penalty notices for
unauthorised absence from school, and our code of conduct currently remains unchanged.
It is of vital importance that all of us – the local authority, families, schools and children – do
all we can to ensure children achieve the highest levels of attendance.
I have recently received a penalty notice, does the case on the Isle of Wight affect whether I should pay?
If you have received a penalty notice regarding school attendance, you are expected to pay
this within the statutory period as detailed within the paperwork issued, or you may be subject
to legal action.
If this was my daughter she'd be going.
I think a few have attempted to explain, there is no leeway now, and local authorities expect the schools to say 'no' to every request.
The actions of the feckless few are hindering those that care about their children's welfare and education. There is no doubt, probably even for the school, that this is a worthwhile trip.
The actions of the feckless few are hindering those that care about their children's welfare and education. There is no doubt, probably even for the school, that this is a worthwhile trip.
Bushi said:
Ok, cheers for the responses.
Clearly I made the mistake of going by the book.
Not something I normally do but trying to teach her proper moral values, may have to show her how rules can become a little grey.
Looking at the guidelines linked earlier schools do seem have leeway to grant leave for educational trips but I can see how it is difficult for them.
Now have to decide whether to simply up and go or not.
The moral of the story is that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.Clearly I made the mistake of going by the book.
Not something I normally do but trying to teach her proper moral values, may have to show her how rules can become a little grey.
Looking at the guidelines linked earlier schools do seem have leeway to grant leave for educational trips but I can see how it is difficult for them.
Now have to decide whether to simply up and go or not.
lauda said:
I think with these sorts of things you should trust your own instinct and judgment rather than allow petty rules to dictate what you do.
There is no doubt in my mind that your daughter will benefit far more educationally from going to the Space Centre than she will a day in class towards the end of the term. I appreciate that schools have their hands tied on these sorts of matters and that you've tried to do the right thing by getting it pre-approved, but the outcome is completely unsatisfactory.
I'd go back to the school, thank them for their response, explain why I disagreed with it and then confirm that she won't be attending that day. As others have suggested, I'd outline clearly the benefits that she'll gain by going and I'd also ask them for details of the planned lessons on the understanding that I'd take my own time to cover that material with her over the weekend/Christmas holidays.
it isn't the schools decision, the local LEA administer this system and they make the decision and send it out on 'behalf' of the schools. the schools hate it, as it has caused arguments between them and parents that need never have happened.There is no doubt in my mind that your daughter will benefit far more educationally from going to the Space Centre than she will a day in class towards the end of the term. I appreciate that schools have their hands tied on these sorts of matters and that you've tried to do the right thing by getting it pre-approved, but the outcome is completely unsatisfactory.
I'd go back to the school, thank them for their response, explain why I disagreed with it and then confirm that she won't be attending that day. As others have suggested, I'd outline clearly the benefits that she'll gain by going and I'd also ask them for details of the planned lessons on the understanding that I'd take my own time to cover that material with her over the weekend/Christmas holidays.
my wife is a primary school teacher, i spoke to her about this and she confirmed that a) the schools don't get to make the decision b) it would be a far more educational day for the OP's daughter than being in school singing xmas carols 3 days before the end of term, c) if it's on telly her year 6 class are going to watch it, if they aren't wasting time singing xmas carols to each other.
The last two years I've filled out the permission form at the school and had it rejected. They have to reject it but both the school and I know I'll be taking my daughter out of school on the dates stated.
Both years nothing has come of it, no fine, no reprimand, nothing.
She has had 98%+ attendance outside of the dates I've taken her out and it seems that someone has taken the sensible option and not taken things further. I'm not sure where this discretion is coming from, the school or the local authority.
She's 8 next year so schooling is becoming a little more serious and we won't take her out during term time again ... this years holiday is costing 3 times what it did last year because we're taking it 3 weeks later !
Both years nothing has come of it, no fine, no reprimand, nothing.
She has had 98%+ attendance outside of the dates I've taken her out and it seems that someone has taken the sensible option and not taken things further. I'm not sure where this discretion is coming from, the school or the local authority.
She's 8 next year so schooling is becoming a little more serious and we won't take her out during term time again ... this years holiday is costing 3 times what it did last year because we're taking it 3 weeks later !
In some ways I'm glad I'm not a parent as I'd struggle biting my tongue at some of what seems like total hypocrisy by schools and teachers.
- Take your kids out of school for a day to go somewhere beneficial to their education = bad
- School takes them to the same place on for the same purpose = good
- Take your kids out of school on a regular school day for whatever reason = bad
- Make you have a day off work because you're on a teacher training day = good
Andy888 said:
You have to wonder sometimes really. Clearly schools are their own little empires run by people who get off on power trips over parents and kids.
Care to comment now others have got in before me to tell you the school have no leeway in this and it's completely out of their hands.. Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff