Child Day Off From School. Am I Wrong?
Discussion
Andy888 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Andy888 said:
You have to wonder sometimes really. Clearly schools are their own little empires run by people who get off on power trips over parents and kids.
Care to comment now others have got in before me to tell you the school have no leeway in this and it's completely out of their hands.. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overv...
Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
Sheepshanks said:
That's right - but they have to decide within a set of rules that say they can only authorise in "exceptional circumstances".
Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
In the cold light of day thats pretty much the conclusion I have come to. Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
My schools got around 300 kids with differing interests and hobbies, I only have 2 to worry about.
Just have to play the game a little smarter.
Respond, requesting they revisit the decision around the term exceptional. Space launches are going to be pretty exceptional, and if you can demonstrate the STEM side of things, as opposed to the (incorrect) view it's a jolly. Perhaps you can offer your child as presentation fodder in assembly, or to appease the teaching side of things, have the science teacher set a bit of homework around the visit to ensure learning? Maybe a bit of give and take will get a better outcome?
Sheepshanks said:
Andy888 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Andy888 said:
You have to wonder sometimes really. Clearly schools are their own little empires run by people who get off on power trips over parents and kids.
Care to comment now others have got in before me to tell you the school have no leeway in this and it's completely out of their hands.. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overv...
Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
mcelliott said:
Nope, we're not in a jurisdiction that imposes fines on absence however, we did get a standard letter quoting statistics about children missing school, and how it can harm their education, etc. Blah, blah, blah.
Missed opportunity there - should have sent your child in with a study revealing the statistics used have been misrepresented and do not in fact show the conclusions drawn. A subsequent study revealing the positive effects of parental involvement of a child's education including taking on educational trips and experiences (with improved exam results that increase the schools standing) - should hopefully get them to start assessing each case on its merits (as they should be doing) and not being mere jobsworths.Bushi said:
OK, strange to be posting this on PH but really donot want to join mumsnet and people here seem to be fairly normal.
So I have a 6 year old daughter at school. 100% attendance doing really well.
She loves space, all the sciences etc.. met Chris Hadfield last week and shes really enthused about space travel, has been for a long while. 90% sure this is lead by her rather than dragged by me, ether way happy days. Loves maths, sciences, engineering...
Any way... we have the space launch on the 15th for Tim Peake, and I have tkts for us both to go to the National Space Centre and watch the launch live with an absolute bucket load of Childrens educational activities on the day to enthuse children in the stem subjects.
Applied to school for the day of and they have refused.
WTF? seems insane to me but I may be well off base.
Any views before I simply take her and feel the wrath of local councils and schools?
Go and see the headteacher and explain how your daughter will benefit educationally above and beyond what the school can offer, and also how this can be used to benefit the rest of her class, e.g. if she does a talk about it or something. I had a written request turned down for my tennis mad daughter to visit Wimbledon, so I met with the head and after a discussion along those lines the absence was agreed. Good luck with whatever you decide.So I have a 6 year old daughter at school. 100% attendance doing really well.
She loves space, all the sciences etc.. met Chris Hadfield last week and shes really enthused about space travel, has been for a long while. 90% sure this is lead by her rather than dragged by me, ether way happy days. Loves maths, sciences, engineering...
Any way... we have the space launch on the 15th for Tim Peake, and I have tkts for us both to go to the National Space Centre and watch the launch live with an absolute bucket load of Childrens educational activities on the day to enthuse children in the stem subjects.
Applied to school for the day of and they have refused.
WTF? seems insane to me but I may be well off base.
Any views before I simply take her and feel the wrath of local councils and schools?
pork911 said:
retrorider said:
The world has gone mad.Take her and also tell her to follow her dreams.Life is too short to worry about one lost day at school...
clearly did you no harm needing to edit that only four times Edited by retrorider on Tuesday 1st December 17:49
Edited by retrorider on Tuesday 1st December 17:49
Edited by retrorider on Tuesday 1st December 17:51
Edited by retrorider on Tuesday 1st December 17:55
steelbreeze said:
Go and see the headteacher and explain how your daughter will benefit educationally above and beyond what the school can offer, and also how this can be used to benefit the rest of her class, e.g. if she does a talk about it or something. I had a written request turned down for my tennis mad daughter to visit Wimbledon, so I met with the head and after a discussion along those lines the absence was agreed. Good luck with whatever you decide.
This is a good idea!TwigtheWonderkid said:
Sheepshanks said:
Andy888 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Andy888 said:
You have to wonder sometimes really. Clearly schools are their own little empires run by people who get off on power trips over parents and kids.
Care to comment now others have got in before me to tell you the school have no leeway in this and it's completely out of their hands.. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overv...
Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
Sheepshanks said:
Andy888 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Andy888 said:
You have to wonder sometimes really. Clearly schools are their own little empires run by people who get off on power trips over parents and kids.
Care to comment now others have got in before me to tell you the school have no leeway in this and it's completely out of their hands.. https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overv...
Heads have complained that there's no official guidance on what constitutes "exceptional circumstances" but they're unlikely to include taking a kid out for a day to go to a science fair.
she also said that at either 6 or 16 she would learn far more on that day going to witness it first hand. if it was her school they would try and turn a blind eye. problem is they get checked constantly for attendance etc and woe betide if they don't have the right paperwork.
Googling ready for my chat with the head...
Found this from Cardiff council. I think the keyword is 'holiday'...you are not going on a holiday...
4. Circumstances for Issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice
It will be the responsibility of schools/PRUs and/or police to request that the EWS [educational welfare services] issue an FPN and those requests will only be considered where there is proven evidence of unauthorised absence due to the following circumstances: -
• Where there is a minimum of 10 unauthorised sessions (5 school days) in the current term (these do not need to be consecutive);
• Pupils persistently arriving after the close of the registration period i.e. more than 10 sessions in the current term; (Recommended that registers be kept open for thirty minutes);
• Where parent/carers have failed to engage with the school and/or the EWS in attempts to improve attendance but where court sanctions have not been instigated;
• A period of absence from school due to a holiday that was not authorised by school;
• A pupil has regularly come to the attention of the police during school hours and is absent from school without an acceptable reason.
Found this from Cardiff council. I think the keyword is 'holiday'...you are not going on a holiday...
4. Circumstances for Issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice
It will be the responsibility of schools/PRUs and/or police to request that the EWS [educational welfare services] issue an FPN and those requests will only be considered where there is proven evidence of unauthorised absence due to the following circumstances: -
• Where there is a minimum of 10 unauthorised sessions (5 school days) in the current term (these do not need to be consecutive);
• Pupils persistently arriving after the close of the registration period i.e. more than 10 sessions in the current term; (Recommended that registers be kept open for thirty minutes);
• Where parent/carers have failed to engage with the school and/or the EWS in attempts to improve attendance but where court sanctions have not been instigated;
• A period of absence from school due to a holiday that was not authorised by school;
• A pupil has regularly come to the attention of the police during school hours and is absent from school without an acceptable reason.
jesta1865 said:
double checked with my wife who is a deputy head, despite what it says there, the schools are not making the decision, it's handed down from the dfe via the lea's. barely anything is allowed.
Disagree mate. The LEA ties his/her hands and gets the headmaster to do the 'telling tales' work for them: "Head teachers are obliged to make judgements on the authorising of absence and subsequent coding". If the coding suggests certain unauthorised absences the invoices get issued by LEA... The headmaster has some choice and potential discretion in this. Rather a difficult position really and they turn them from teachers into fine instigators for a 1 day 'holiday'...Edit: later found this in same doc: "It will be the responsibility of schools/PRUs and/or police to request that the EWS issue an FPN"
So its IS the schools effectively fining parents. (A PRU is a Pupil referral Unit - special school)
Edited by Ken Figenus on Wednesday 2nd December 16:05
Edited by Ken Figenus on Wednesday 2nd December 16:05
jesta1865 said:
double checked with my wife who is a deputy head, despite what it says there, the schools are not making the decision, it's handed down from the dfe via the lea's. barely anything is allowed.
she also said that at either 6 or 16 she would learn far more on that day going to witness it first hand. if it was her school they would try and turn a blind eye. problem is they get checked constantly for attendance etc and woe betide if they don't have the right paperwork.
Absolutely spot on.she also said that at either 6 or 16 she would learn far more on that day going to witness it first hand. if it was her school they would try and turn a blind eye. problem is they get checked constantly for attendance etc and woe betide if they don't have the right paperwork.
As a governor of a primary I've just had this to deal with recently and the school has no leeway but gets all the s
t from parents.All absences are reported back to LA and unless it's illness or exceptional circumstance such as close family bereavement, the school are obliged to refuse.
We're terribly oversubscribed and same thing happens on admissions, anything over the planned access number has to be rejected, then often people go to appeal and the LA let them in.
Absolutely not spot on according to this guys: https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resident/Schools-an...
Ken Figenus said:
Absolutely not spot on according to this guys: https://www.cardiff.gov.uk/ENG/resident/Schools-an...
That's Wales not England, I believe they're different rules.It's what we were told by the LEA advice line.
Guys
Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Right...
The child is attending regularly. One day off a year won't change its attendance to irregular. That deals with (1)
You have reasonable justification, the trip is clearly educational and unique in terms of the event itself and the time it occurs at. So that deals with (1A)
The school have just sent a form letter without any thought to the above. However the above is actually the important bit.
Now for this
4. Circumstances for Issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice
It will be the responsibility of schools/PRUs and/or police to request that the EWS [educational welfare services] issue an FPN and those requests will only be considered where there is proven evidence of unauthorised absence due to the following circumstances: -
• Where there is a minimum of 10 unauthorised sessions (5 school days) in the current term (these do not need to be consecutive);
• Pupils persistently arriving after the close of the registration period i.e. more than 10 sessions in the current term; (Recommended that registers be kept open for thirty minutes);
• Where parent/carers have failed to engage with the school and/or the EWS in attempts to improve attendance but where court sanctions have not been instigated;
• A period of absence from school due to a holiday that was not authorised by school;
• A pupil has regularly come to the attention of the police during school hours and is absent from school without an acceptable reason.
First bullet - does not apply, you just want one day off
Second bullet - does not apply
Third bullet - does not apply
Fourth bullet - does apply but you are complying with the law as I pointed out under the act in the top half of this post
Fifth bullet - does not apply
just go. It sounds a great day out.
Section 444 of the Education Act 1996 that states that:
(1) If a child of compulsory school age who is a registered pupil at a school fails to attend
regularly at the school, his parent is guilty of an offence
(1A) If in the circumstances mentioned in subsection (1) the parent knows that his child is
failing to attend regularly at the school and fails without reasonable justification to cause
him to do so, he is guilty of an offence.
Right...
The child is attending regularly. One day off a year won't change its attendance to irregular. That deals with (1)
You have reasonable justification, the trip is clearly educational and unique in terms of the event itself and the time it occurs at. So that deals with (1A)
The school have just sent a form letter without any thought to the above. However the above is actually the important bit.
Now for this
4. Circumstances for Issuing a Fixed Penalty Notice
It will be the responsibility of schools/PRUs and/or police to request that the EWS [educational welfare services] issue an FPN and those requests will only be considered where there is proven evidence of unauthorised absence due to the following circumstances: -
• Where there is a minimum of 10 unauthorised sessions (5 school days) in the current term (these do not need to be consecutive);
• Pupils persistently arriving after the close of the registration period i.e. more than 10 sessions in the current term; (Recommended that registers be kept open for thirty minutes);
• Where parent/carers have failed to engage with the school and/or the EWS in attempts to improve attendance but where court sanctions have not been instigated;
• A period of absence from school due to a holiday that was not authorised by school;
• A pupil has regularly come to the attention of the police during school hours and is absent from school without an acceptable reason.
First bullet - does not apply, you just want one day off
Second bullet - does not apply
Third bullet - does not apply
Fourth bullet - does apply but you are complying with the law as I pointed out under the act in the top half of this post
Fifth bullet - does not apply
just go. It sounds a great day out.
Edited by cymtriks on Thursday 3rd December 23:52
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