Simple and basic ECU advice / help
Discussion
Hi All,
I've been reading all the threads I can on aftermarket ECUs as best I can and was hoping for a pointer or two
My requirements are a) needs to be a self install as can't afford to send to a garage b) be as simple a possible to install c) available in a full kit format that comes with absolutely everything (all mounts , brackets as well etc)
I don't think I could justify having it installed at a garage on costs grounds and there does not seem to be anybody local to Oxford.
I've come across megasquirt, emerald and canems
Megasquirt appears half the price of an emerald but does this come at a cost ?
I'm not trying to instigate a what is best aftermarket ecu debate, but more based on my very limited electrical knowledge and no knowledge of mapping and limited budget what would be the best value route for me to take if I wanted to apply an ECU to ensure I lose all gremlins in the current lucas ecu, eek out a bit more power and then at my leisure learn a bit about mapping and getting the best from my car.
Car is a 4.3 pre serp.
Also if anybody is close to Witney in Oxfordshire who has self installed an ECU I would love to hear from you and pick your brains.
Many Thanks
Jeremy
I've been reading all the threads I can on aftermarket ECUs as best I can and was hoping for a pointer or two
My requirements are a) needs to be a self install as can't afford to send to a garage b) be as simple a possible to install c) available in a full kit format that comes with absolutely everything (all mounts , brackets as well etc)
I don't think I could justify having it installed at a garage on costs grounds and there does not seem to be anybody local to Oxford.
I've come across megasquirt, emerald and canems
Megasquirt appears half the price of an emerald but does this come at a cost ?
I'm not trying to instigate a what is best aftermarket ecu debate, but more based on my very limited electrical knowledge and no knowledge of mapping and limited budget what would be the best value route for me to take if I wanted to apply an ECU to ensure I lose all gremlins in the current lucas ecu, eek out a bit more power and then at my leisure learn a bit about mapping and getting the best from my car.
Car is a 4.3 pre serp.
Also if anybody is close to Witney in Oxfordshire who has self installed an ECU I would love to hear from you and pick your brains.
Many Thanks
Jeremy
Hi Jeremy,as my thread need help,I have self installed a complete canems kit from lloyds,this came with everything but,mods were required as there were bits and bobs that were not quite right and I also did some mods to improve certain aspects,on this front you will require a certain amount of mechanical and engineering knowledge.
Your problem will lie with the electrical system. If you have limited abilities here then you will struggle,you need to identify the circuits within the engine loom,I believe some looms on earlier cars had a separate loom for signals ie water temp oil etc but on mine these were all integrated into the one loom so had to be stripped out to retain,you will also ditch certain parts as well,that's just the engine bay.
Under the passenger footwell will be the further rats nest of cables where the Lucas integrates with tvr ,dependant on previous mods this will be scruffy at best or a nightmare if it's been played with,with the engine loon and the footwell I removed half a black bin bag of old cabling,it was good to do as the condition of the wiring was dire and that's in a car that has been looked after in the past,my personal advice here is if you not versed in vehicle electrics and add into the mix the tvr aspect,LEAVE WELL ALONE.
From a base cost megasquirt will be the cheapest and you could get things like the loom made up for you,this will add to the cost but you should get all you want for poss 1000 to 1200 ,can't remember the canems kit but I think it was around the 1600 mark,lloyds do a drive in fitting for a very reasonable cost and if I had not been doing a load of other mods this would have been the way to go
If you are on limited funds and knowledge my feeling would be to postpone this mod,you could end up in a mess
The Lucas system works well if all its components are up to scratch and it may pay to spend a little money on a full health check by someone who knows the system well,the general masses of chims and griefs are still running on it
The beauty of the new ecus is the ability to tweek them,I've not seen much of megasquirt or the others but canems is very intuitive and allows all sorts of permutations to be done whilst running the engine hooked to the laptop,you can also see issues while connected
On a final cost,you will probably need to have the car on a rolling road for correct final mapping
I believe this to be a great step forward in the evolution of these cars but not one to try on the cheap
Just my thoughts and hope it helps
Rich
Your problem will lie with the electrical system. If you have limited abilities here then you will struggle,you need to identify the circuits within the engine loom,I believe some looms on earlier cars had a separate loom for signals ie water temp oil etc but on mine these were all integrated into the one loom so had to be stripped out to retain,you will also ditch certain parts as well,that's just the engine bay.
Under the passenger footwell will be the further rats nest of cables where the Lucas integrates with tvr ,dependant on previous mods this will be scruffy at best or a nightmare if it's been played with,with the engine loon and the footwell I removed half a black bin bag of old cabling,it was good to do as the condition of the wiring was dire and that's in a car that has been looked after in the past,my personal advice here is if you not versed in vehicle electrics and add into the mix the tvr aspect,LEAVE WELL ALONE.
From a base cost megasquirt will be the cheapest and you could get things like the loom made up for you,this will add to the cost but you should get all you want for poss 1000 to 1200 ,can't remember the canems kit but I think it was around the 1600 mark,lloyds do a drive in fitting for a very reasonable cost and if I had not been doing a load of other mods this would have been the way to go
If you are on limited funds and knowledge my feeling would be to postpone this mod,you could end up in a mess
The Lucas system works well if all its components are up to scratch and it may pay to spend a little money on a full health check by someone who knows the system well,the general masses of chims and griefs are still running on it
The beauty of the new ecus is the ability to tweek them,I've not seen much of megasquirt or the others but canems is very intuitive and allows all sorts of permutations to be done whilst running the engine hooked to the laptop,you can also see issues while connected
On a final cost,you will probably need to have the car on a rolling road for correct final mapping
I believe this to be a great step forward in the evolution of these cars but not one to try on the cheap
Just my thoughts and hope it helps
Rich
Rich,
Thanks for the honest and balanced view. Really helpful and the kind of sanity check I needed. It has confirmed my hunch that I am not up to the task based on current skills and knowledge. So best left alone.
Blitz, nothing wrong with the current Lucas system just was heading down the line of future proofing to avoid the day when it fails.
I think the suggestion of a rolling road session is sound and then maybe an after market chip dependant on outcomes.
Many Thanks to you both for replying
Cheers
Thanks for the honest and balanced view. Really helpful and the kind of sanity check I needed. It has confirmed my hunch that I am not up to the task based on current skills and knowledge. So best left alone.
Blitz, nothing wrong with the current Lucas system just was heading down the line of future proofing to avoid the day when it fails.
I think the suggestion of a rolling road session is sound and then maybe an after market chip dependant on outcomes.
Many Thanks to you both for replying
Cheers
Unless there is something in particular you are after that cannot be achieved using the 14CUX I would seriously consider saving your money and keeping the ECU standard. Replacing the ECU is not an easy task and can introduce its own issues.
If I had to go aftermarket I would go for the MBE offering by TVR Power, drive in, drive out service and MBE are used as OEM for likes of Caterham, Nobel etc so they are fully type approved and will easy pass emissions tests etc
If I had to go aftermarket I would go for the MBE offering by TVR Power, drive in, drive out service and MBE are used as OEM for likes of Caterham, Nobel etc so they are fully type approved and will easy pass emissions tests etc
I've got the Mbe installation done by Powers,,I can confirm what Matt says,,it's well worth it if the cars a keeper and you are having continued problems with the CUX, you can end up paying a small fortune chasing issues,, I've done over 4000 miles with mine since October 2015 so only about 3 months,, cars living outside in all this wet and cold weather,,,
It just starts, holds a steady idle, is exactly the same to drive from freezing temps as if it was warm, really high fuel economy figures etc and really fast,
But unless you have serious auto electrical experience it's best left to the experts,, the time it takes to do the install alone I don't believe it's cost effective.
Because the Mbe system has a bespoke wiring harness as part of the kit it's also probably the easiest to plug in and play,,
I just love the regular clock readings, the car just runs totally perfectly in all climbs,,, I'd take it anywhere with full confidence,,, but Jay at powers had it on the rolling road twice and at least twice on the open road,,, it still takes a big effort to map the fuelling curve precisely so all in all the Powers MBE system came in at a reasonable price,, cheaper than if I'd installed it, chased it's faults, rolling road sessions etc,, could have easily came to the same price range,, it's garranteed too,, what's not to like.
It just starts, holds a steady idle, is exactly the same to drive from freezing temps as if it was warm, really high fuel economy figures etc and really fast,
But unless you have serious auto electrical experience it's best left to the experts,, the time it takes to do the install alone I don't believe it's cost effective.
Because the Mbe system has a bespoke wiring harness as part of the kit it's also probably the easiest to plug in and play,,
I just love the regular clock readings, the car just runs totally perfectly in all climbs,,, I'd take it anywhere with full confidence,,, but Jay at powers had it on the rolling road twice and at least twice on the open road,,, it still takes a big effort to map the fuelling curve precisely so all in all the Powers MBE system came in at a reasonable price,, cheaper than if I'd installed it, chased it's faults, rolling road sessions etc,, could have easily came to the same price range,, it's garranteed too,, what's not to like.
The world of after market chips is a murky one, you can pay a lot of money for little return for anything thats "best guess" so Id avoid that. You firstly have to make sure everything on the car is perfect (ie ignition is good, fuel injectors are clean, and sensors are reading correctly), then put the car on the rollers to measure the mixture to see if its actually out. If it is you can get the TVR map altered quite easily to do what you want- you dont need to folk out £400 on a chip that then needs correcting again at great expense.
V8 Developments sell a couple of variants of a plug and play Megasquirt
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
They also have fitting instructions so you can see what's involved in the fitting.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/injection...
They also have fitting instructions so you can see what's involved in the fitting.
ClassiChimi said:
Jay at powers had it on the rolling road twice and at least twice on the open road,,, it still takes a big effort to map the fuelling curve precisely
I know I always mention it on aftermarket ECU threads but this is what most people forget/don't mention it can be a nightmare getting everything set up for all sorts of running scenarios.As has been suggested if your system is running okay just leave it alone.
ray von said:
I know I always mention it on aftermarket ECU threads but this is what most people forget/don't mention it can be a nightmare getting everything set up for all sorts of running scenarios.As has been suggested if your system is running okay just leave it alone.
and the ECU itself is of fine quality 20 years + on these cars its only daft people letting them get wet etc that f
ks them up you do the same to Emerald Megasquirt MBE etc and you will do the same thing brick it 
like said so many times before it only lacks a mappable ignition 
and unless you have a crispy knackered old wiring loom and other component issues I would save me money ..... cos it aint cheap when you factor in ECU/loom sundries/materials and mapping blitzracing said:
The world of after market chips is a murky one, you can pay a lot of money for little return for anything thats "best guess" so Id avoid that. You firstly have to make sure everything on the car is perfect (ie ignition is good, fuel injectors are clean, and sensors are reading correctly), then put the car on the rollers to measure the mixture to see if its actually out. If it is you can get the TVR map altered quite easily to do what you want- you dont need to folk out £400 on a chip that then needs correcting again at great expense.
When you say you can get the chip altered quite easily without forking out £400,how do you mean? Is there something that can be done with the roverguage? jazzdude said:
blitzracing said:
The world of after market chips is a murky one, you can pay a lot of money for little return for anything thats "best guess" so Id avoid that. You firstly have to make sure everything on the car is perfect (ie ignition is good, fuel injectors are clean, and sensors are reading correctly), then put the car on the rollers to measure the mixture to see if its actually out. If it is you can get the TVR map altered quite easily to do what you want- you dont need to folk out £400 on a chip that then needs correcting again at great expense.
When you say you can get the chip altered quite easily without forking out £400,how do you mean? Is there something that can be done with the roverguage? I have stayed with the Lucas ECU and had it remapped back in 2013 to suit the changes I made to the car, and it runs fine for me - track days, fast road, sprints, idling around town. I had it checked late last year by Jools and it was still pretty spot on. I would leave well alone - a nice 430 running the Lucas ECU is a thing of rare beauty.
Edited by QBee on Saturday 28th May 06:44
jazzdude said:
When you say you can get the chip altered quite easily without forking out £400,how do you mean? Is there something that can be done with the roverguage?
It's all clearly explained in this thread:http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If your considering an Ecu upgrade its got to be a keeper,,
Say you spend 2.5 k installing an Ecu and wiring etc,
Spread over 5 years that's about £41 a month,,, I save that in petrol and no servicing costs other than plugs,,
You have to be driving the car regularly to get the best return and I think I save a good tenner a week on fuel alone.
It's the cold start and then stop /start that on short journeys I found the CUX lacking,
My engines a good 10 degrees cooler 90% of the time too,
It sounds different, clean burn,
It's very simple really, the fuel gauge takes longer to go down,,, and that is the single greatest cost, fuel!
So saving your money by leaving it on the CUX is not technically correct when viewed over a longer period of time!
I never bought my car with an eye on the market, I wanted a Tvr before they were old and out of sight,
I was determined to prove myself right and have a reliable Tvr for years to come,,
Well with the help of many peoples advice I'm close to having a very reliable Tvr,, I serviced my car about 8-9 weeks ago,
It needs servicing again as I've already done close to 4000 miles in that time,,
I'm sure the CUX would have coped well enough but I have this sense of occasion and peace of mind that far out ways a poxy £41 a month which is what it's costing. You have to experience an after makes Ecu over a period of time to appreciate its abilities and if it's done as well as Powers Mbe then it's a bit like the brakes, originals work just fine but upgraded brakes work better,, there ain't no question about that!
I've kept all my old CUX SYSTEM, if I ever sell the car it will come with a big box of relays and st wiring, a dizzy and
Ecu, fuel regulator AFM etc, all in working order other than a dodgy stepper motor,, of which I have 3 of!!
If for some increadable reason years down the line the CUX cars are more valuable by many thousands then you can always return the car back to standard but just like wonderful E Types and the like running on modern management systems they are simply way better cars than original and worth just as much! Engines are not cheap to rebuild so ensuring yours is being controlled to a finite degree is going to extend its life span, over fuelling to help cool the engine just waters down your oil, turns it black over night and in turn wears your engine unduly, unless you are getting someone to adjust the CUX map to your engines characteristics it's a best guess map, very good indeed but still,,,,
I think the returns are greater than just better economy and reliability of spark and fuelling,, drive train slack is easier to manage,, I'm not just making it up,,
Finally, driving the car is where you'll gain the most,, just pleasure,, relaxed, easy and removing everything from the old coil to the injector wiring gives this sense of classic motoring with a modern reliability vibe,,, priceless.
It's like Daves LPG conversion, makes very good sense if your going to drive the car as often as you can and put proper mileage on the car, if it's a Sunday morning toy then it's not worth doing if your looking from a financial point of view,,
Now what true petrolhead cares about how much it costs to make his pride and joy a better car.
Say you spend 2.5 k installing an Ecu and wiring etc,
Spread over 5 years that's about £41 a month,,, I save that in petrol and no servicing costs other than plugs,,
You have to be driving the car regularly to get the best return and I think I save a good tenner a week on fuel alone.
It's the cold start and then stop /start that on short journeys I found the CUX lacking,
My engines a good 10 degrees cooler 90% of the time too,
It sounds different, clean burn,
It's very simple really, the fuel gauge takes longer to go down,,, and that is the single greatest cost, fuel!
So saving your money by leaving it on the CUX is not technically correct when viewed over a longer period of time!
I never bought my car with an eye on the market, I wanted a Tvr before they were old and out of sight,
I was determined to prove myself right and have a reliable Tvr for years to come,,
Well with the help of many peoples advice I'm close to having a very reliable Tvr,, I serviced my car about 8-9 weeks ago,
It needs servicing again as I've already done close to 4000 miles in that time,,
I'm sure the CUX would have coped well enough but I have this sense of occasion and peace of mind that far out ways a poxy £41 a month which is what it's costing. You have to experience an after makes Ecu over a period of time to appreciate its abilities and if it's done as well as Powers Mbe then it's a bit like the brakes, originals work just fine but upgraded brakes work better,, there ain't no question about that!
I've kept all my old CUX SYSTEM, if I ever sell the car it will come with a big box of relays and s
t wiring, a dizzy and Ecu, fuel regulator AFM etc, all in working order other than a dodgy stepper motor,, of which I have 3 of!!
If for some increadable reason years down the line the CUX cars are more valuable by many thousands then you can always return the car back to standard but just like wonderful E Types and the like running on modern management systems they are simply way better cars than original and worth just as much! Engines are not cheap to rebuild so ensuring yours is being controlled to a finite degree is going to extend its life span, over fuelling to help cool the engine just waters down your oil, turns it black over night and in turn wears your engine unduly, unless you are getting someone to adjust the CUX map to your engines characteristics it's a best guess map, very good indeed but still,,,,
I think the returns are greater than just better economy and reliability of spark and fuelling,, drive train slack is easier to manage,, I'm not just making it up,,
Finally, driving the car is where you'll gain the most,, just pleasure,, relaxed, easy and removing everything from the old coil to the injector wiring gives this sense of classic motoring with a modern reliability vibe,,, priceless.
It's like Daves LPG conversion, makes very good sense if your going to drive the car as often as you can and put proper mileage on the car, if it's a Sunday morning toy then it's not worth doing if your looking from a financial point of view,,
Now what true petrolhead cares about how much it costs to make his pride and joy a better car.
Hoofa said:
Stick with the Lucas and do aftermarket ignition , save your money
The main thing that I want to get rid of on mine is the dizzy. Can I just get the coilpacks and associated stuff off of a range and chuck it on mine or is it more involved?Edit: http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/p90...
All in for £400ish. Not bad, probably get it a bit cheaper if you shopped around and got the bits separately.
Edited by s p a c e m a n on Saturday 28th May 10:49
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