Do you think trust can ever be earned back?
Discussion
thainy77 said:
I've been in a relationship like this before, no kids and not married, there is no reason or point in staying together. You're both worried about being single but there is no reason to be, move on before she does.
I would say ive also been in a relationship like this before too. I wouldn't say I was worried about being single, more worried about the other person no longer being a part of my life. In the grand scheme of things a few years isn't a long time, but you become like family during that time even with no marriage or kids, it's a hard thing to break off. I wish I had some helpful advice OP but I think only you will know what to do, no one can tell you.
So you've both cheated on each other your even get on with life or go your separate ways. Or become swingers.
Far easier for you two with no kids to think about. When kids are in the equation it's a lot more difficult. You need to sort this out before you move onto the next phase with your relationship. The fact you checked her messages says loads about trust. Would you check them again?
Far easier for you two with no kids to think about. When kids are in the equation it's a lot more difficult. You need to sort this out before you move onto the next phase with your relationship. The fact you checked her messages says loads about trust. Would you check them again?
Chateauneufdupape said:
At least I was decent enough not to let her find out, but it still eats away at me, how can I be angry at her for doing something when I did too?
Not sure why you are expecting kudos for being a cleverer cheat than her, she should be more worried than you given any repeat would not be noticed by her but might be by you.Overall your indiscretion should make it a lot easier tot forgive and move on - you might be hurting but you have zero moral high ground here
You've both cheated on each other, its doomed to fail eventually imo, I'd move on now and find someone A) I wasn't willing to cheat on and B)someone who wouldn't cheat on me
I know you've said its not like Jeremy Kyle but 2 cheats and an ill mother, its a Jeremy Kyle special if ever I saw one
I know you've said its not like Jeremy Kyle but 2 cheats and an ill mother, its a Jeremy Kyle special if ever I saw one
Adam B said:
Chateauneufdupape said:
At least I was decent enough not to let her find out, but it still eats away at me, how can I be angry at her for doing something when I did too?
Not sure why you are expecting kudos for being a cleverer cheat than her, she should be more worried than you given any repeat would not be noticed by her but might be by you.Overall your indiscretion should make it a lot easier tot forgive and move on - you might be hurting but you have zero moral high ground here
Speaking from personal experience, I couldn't forgive my ex's adultery. It wasn't necessarily that he had fallen in love with someone else, it was the deceit. I would have had more respect for him if he had been honest, instead of lying to me (and others).
As others have said, I can't see how you can ever trust that person 100% again. My ex and the other party were both married when they started their affair, so I can't believe there aren't little niggly doubts, ever.
Whilst I think trust can be rebuilt eventually, it doesn't sound like your relationship is going to work. From what you've said, I think it's likely your girlfriend will end up cheating.
You don't have the moral high ground, you cheated too and if you do decide to rebuild trust, you need to come clean too.
You don't have the moral high ground, you cheated too and if you do decide to rebuild trust, you need to come clean too.
To summarise:
When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one.
"A couple of times in the past...". It's not a one off, drunk moment of weakness. You're talking about issues you know of. Tip of the iceberg my friend. She doesn't respect you, herself, the third party or the third party's family in any way. Her emotional maturity is seriously stunted. Strike two. Note, she was devastated at the potential outcome (all thing's she'd lose). Change is scary - she was scared of change. I'm willing to bet if the nest had been rosy on the other side of the fence (i.e. not married, not having a kid), she'd have been a lot less upset.
You talk of marriage and kids. Can you really imagine settling down with someone who is proven more than a little flighty? Easily distracted/attracted? It's up to you if this is strike three.
If I were you, I'd gather up all the good memories, bank them and move on. It's a big, scary decision but you're obviously a capable man. You'll do fine. I learned the hard way that ignoring exactly this issue simply delays the inevitable. The inevitable happened in 2012, post marriage, post house purchase but thankfully pre-kids. If I'd been braver and smarter ten years ago, I'd have saved myself, quite literally, eight years of unhappiness, interspersed with occasional moments of happiness. Life should be the other way round...
When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one.
"A couple of times in the past...". It's not a one off, drunk moment of weakness. You're talking about issues you know of. Tip of the iceberg my friend. She doesn't respect you, herself, the third party or the third party's family in any way. Her emotional maturity is seriously stunted. Strike two. Note, she was devastated at the potential outcome (all thing's she'd lose). Change is scary - she was scared of change. I'm willing to bet if the nest had been rosy on the other side of the fence (i.e. not married, not having a kid), she'd have been a lot less upset.
You talk of marriage and kids. Can you really imagine settling down with someone who is proven more than a little flighty? Easily distracted/attracted? It's up to you if this is strike three.
If I were you, I'd gather up all the good memories, bank them and move on. It's a big, scary decision but you're obviously a capable man. You'll do fine. I learned the hard way that ignoring exactly this issue simply delays the inevitable. The inevitable happened in 2012, post marriage, post house purchase but thankfully pre-kids. If I'd been braver and smarter ten years ago, I'd have saved myself, quite literally, eight years of unhappiness, interspersed with occasional moments of happiness. Life should be the other way round...
Two situations:
A) You've done something and you feel guilty.
B) She loves attention and sometimes seeks it. Shes done something but you only know about kissing (as you've no evidence otherwise).
Lets keep those two lines seperate. Lets just say the first didn't happen and concentrate on the second as one clouds the other in your thinking.
So B). Do you really think adults only kissed? You've seen texts that probably weren't deleted recently or they are naturally caution to a degree?
By Luck you've not seen it all. Again adults don't just kiss. They tend to grope each other as a min. Agree?
Again concentrate on B). I had a girlfriend who craved male attention- I got out. When they like attention theres a reason dude.
A) You've done something and you feel guilty.
B) She loves attention and sometimes seeks it. Shes done something but you only know about kissing (as you've no evidence otherwise).
Lets keep those two lines seperate. Lets just say the first didn't happen and concentrate on the second as one clouds the other in your thinking.
So B). Do you really think adults only kissed? You've seen texts that probably weren't deleted recently or they are naturally caution to a degree?
By Luck you've not seen it all. Again adults don't just kiss. They tend to grope each other as a min. Agree?
Again concentrate on B). I had a girlfriend who craved male attention- I got out. When they like attention theres a reason dude.
Smitters said:
To summarise:
When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one..
This! In fact, I'd go as far as to say this is worse than the infidelity. You have here a woman who is selfish, self-centred and lacks empathy and true love. If she really loves you OP she'd have helped you. Instead, she was jealous of your relationship with your mum.This is a clear warning that she is not there for you. Neither will she be there properly for your kids if you have them. In her world, she comes first, always. I take back what I said in my earlier post - get out now. There's a world of pain ahead. You are not "invested" properly in a relationship after only 4 years and if you don't have kids.When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one..
mikefacel said:
It would need her to make a massive effort and not just think things are normal again, which is what typically seems to happen.
This. After 23 years together am living this "normal" because we have 3 kids and I really don't want to do that to them. I find that there's a return of the "rational" trust, in that the logical part of me believes her. However, the emotionally screwed up part of me is lurking in the back of my head saying "what if this, and what if that?". It even makes you you question the previous decades together, is she in fact a serial liar and cheater and I've been played for a fool all this time?It's a real POS and I don't believe the absolute trust can ever be re-established.
mikefacel said:
This! In fact, I'd go as far as to say this is worse than the infidelity. You have here a woman who is selfish, self-centred and lacks empathy and true love. If she really loves you OP she'd have helped you. Instead, she was jealous of your relationship with your mum.This is a clear warning that she is not there for you. Neither will she be there properly for your kids if you have them. In her world, she comes first, always. I take back what I said in my earlier post - get out now. There's a world of pain ahead. You are not "invested" properly in a relationship after only 4 years and if you don't have kids.
Apparently she's shown true love by staying with me when I was going through that difficult time as apprently most people wouldn't.... Hmm. I know at that stage in the relationship I should of said goodbye. I had given her endless opportunities in life, she got to do things she never would of done, move out, learn to drive, the confidence to get a decent job, had lots of presents and surprises, weekends away, holidays.... Yet when I need some understanding it really wasn't there. Things have improved on that front, but it's hard to forget it. Thanks for the comments all, I certainly know I don't have any moral high ground and it's something very out of character for me and something I'm genuinely embarrassed/ashamed about. I know having a stupid excuse doesn't make it better, it was escapism I suppose, something to forget my car crash of a life at the time.
I know none of it looks good and if I were to give a friend advice with the same situation I know what I would say - but when you love someone and have built a life with them, it goes deeper than being scared of being single. I'm not scared of that at all, I could have more sleep, do more exercise, spend more time with family (maybe move nearer them), do as much overtime ag work as I like and finally get a mortgage deposit together. I'm not scared of being alone at all, I don't just want any relationship or any person, I want her, and can't imagine life with us not together. Stupid as it may be to some of you. It's a s
t situation. Smitters said:
To summarise:
When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one.
"A couple of times in the past...". It's not a one off, drunk moment of weakness. You're talking about issues you know of. Tip of the iceberg my friend. She doesn't respect you, herself, the third party or the third party's family in any way. Her emotional maturity is seriously stunted. Strike two. Note, she was devastated at the potential outcome (all thing's she'd lose). Change is scary - she was scared of change. I'm willing to bet if the nest had been rosy on the other side of the fence (i.e. not married, not having a kid), she'd have been a lot less upset.
You talk of marriage and kids. Can you really imagine settling down with someone who is proven more than a little flighty? Easily distracted/attracted? It's up to you if this is strike three.
If I were you, I'd gather up all the good memories, bank them and move on. It's a big, scary decision but you're obviously a capable man. You'll do fine. I learned the hard way that ignoring exactly this issue simply delays the inevitable. The inevitable happened in 2012, post marriage, post house purchase but thankfully pre-kids. If I'd been braver and smarter ten years ago, I'd have saved myself, quite literally, eight years of unhappiness, interspersed with occasional moments of happiness. Life should be the other way round...
Its good to hear it from someone who's been through a break up and come out the other side, it's probably the best advice I'll receive in this thread, but it doesn't make it any easier to even contemplate finishing it. I suppose the right thing to do is rarely easy.When you needed her, she wasn't there for you. Caring for your own family should make her beam with pride she's got a good-un, not act out like a spoilt brat who's not getting enough attention. Strike one.
"A couple of times in the past...". It's not a one off, drunk moment of weakness. You're talking about issues you know of. Tip of the iceberg my friend. She doesn't respect you, herself, the third party or the third party's family in any way. Her emotional maturity is seriously stunted. Strike two. Note, she was devastated at the potential outcome (all thing's she'd lose). Change is scary - she was scared of change. I'm willing to bet if the nest had been rosy on the other side of the fence (i.e. not married, not having a kid), she'd have been a lot less upset.
You talk of marriage and kids. Can you really imagine settling down with someone who is proven more than a little flighty? Easily distracted/attracted? It's up to you if this is strike three.
If I were you, I'd gather up all the good memories, bank them and move on. It's a big, scary decision but you're obviously a capable man. You'll do fine. I learned the hard way that ignoring exactly this issue simply delays the inevitable. The inevitable happened in 2012, post marriage, post house purchase but thankfully pre-kids. If I'd been braver and smarter ten years ago, I'd have saved myself, quite literally, eight years of unhappiness, interspersed with occasional moments of happiness. Life should be the other way round...
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