Do you think trust can ever be earned back?

[Farmer Geddon]

Crush said:

Quit before you have the problem of kids to add to the equation.

You've both drifted so clearly looking for something else.

It doesn't always work like that, sometimes it's a stupid mindless act that genuinely doesn't mean anything. Of course it shows a lack of care for what you have, and does tend to ruin things.

OP, I know what a difficult situation this is. You say you're in your early twenties, and I know for a fact that in ten years time you'll look back and think 'I should of ended it instead of wasting so much time'. Chances are it will come to an end at some point, perhaps you're prolonging it, or perhaps you can make it work. If you do try to carry on, then for gods sake don't tell her what you did, it might make your conscience feel better but It won't help.

[bloomen]

Nope. It's a one shot deal. Once it's been rogered I'm never extending it again to someone. They'll know perfectly well how I feel about such things. If they've willfully discarded that then it's good night.

[Vaud]

bloomen said:

Nope. It's a one shot deal. Once it's been rogered I'm never extending it again to someone. They'll know perfectly well how I feel about such things. If they've willfully discarded that then it's good night.

Interesting. Define "trust"?

A white lie about how you look?
An outright lie (I didn't ding the car)?
Returning a flirty text?
A random snog
etc

I guess it is a personal and moral code as to where the line is for each individual?

Or did you mean rogered in the physical sense?

[All that jazz]

Chateauneufdupape said:

Firstly, thank you for all of your replies. Especially to those who have been through a similar thing, I guess we both know it's not easy!

Some of the responses along the lines of 'get some self respect & get rid' are fine if the relationship isn't particularly serious, but for a couple who live together, and planned on marriage and children etc I think it's a worth a little more consideration.

I'll give you some background information:

A couple of times in the past she has received attention from someone and not done enough to discourage it which has annoyed me, infact actuall encouraged it - but I nipped that in the bud and fully explained what I expect in a relationship and we carried on and forgot about it. There were also a few other unnacceptable things that happened but I won't go into details, I think I was a bit of a mug at the start but just really wanted it to work.

A couple of months ago she left her phone at home and went off to work, and she wasn't clever enough to hide the messages - lots were discussed between her and a married man from work (married with a kid - that's one of the things that's most disgusted me!!) they discussed sex, and I found out they'd kissed, but from the messages and what she's told me (yes I know...) that was it, and she had clearly stopped replying and realised what she was doing. Attempted to put a stop to it but if I hadn't found out who knows if it could of escalated.

She was devastated and in bits for about a week (facing losing a partner who'd do anything for her, her house and potentially job as her family are miles away, couldn't stsy here on her own etc) as was I, and I decided it was worth trying as we had made so many plans for our future together and had 4 years invested in the relationship - love has clearly not gone but been tainted a little.

This is where I get judged harshly and probably fairly - I find it easier to forgive(or feel like I should) as I did something I shouldn't have about a year ago. It's no excuse, but I was under a lot of pressure at work (only in my early 20's in a high pressure job, woe is me and all that but sometimes it gets a little much), i was trying to help my mentally ill mother cope through a very bad time, under great financial strain, splitting time between working long hours, caring for my mum and making sure I was still the attentive bf to my demanding and rather selfish gf.... and she was making it incredibly difficult and being very unreasonable/selfish and as a result I struggled to help my mum (who's on her own, I'm her only family), gf not understanding at all and I was forced to be super son and boyfriend and employee and I was making myself unwell... Or rather my other half was, instead of supporting me and my family like most normal people would.

No excuse for anything but she was making my life hell and perhaps I should of called it a day back then, but things did improve and she became *almost* the perfect girlfriend after that. We have always been best friends as well as a couple, most of the time. At least I was decent enough not to let her find out, but it still eats away at me, how can I be angry at her for doing something when I did too?. But anyway, I know I'd n ever do anything like that again, biggest regret of my life... the trouble is, I don't know my other half wouldn't, as she seems to lap up any attention instead of ignoring it like she should or would if she was happy enough with me.

You'll think now that the relationship is basically knackered and I should give up, but honestly i don't think either of us can imagine life without one another. Ive been trying to get back to normal but it's taking more work then I'd have ever thought, and all I want is to be able to trust her again and carry on with everything we planned for the future.

I think overall ive put up with more than I ever should have with her, but I know what it's like to make a mistake. At the moment I find it hard to trust she wouldn't do it again one day, I guess this is what needs to be earned back.

It wasn't a drunken mistake, no real reason for it or explanation/excuse other than enjoyed the attention, that's what bothers me. I also think by forgiving it I do risk her thinking she can get away wth things again. In my mind, a relationship should be innocent and you should get married knowing things are just the way they are meant to be, devoted to each other, I can't help but think this sours the whole thing - but can't seem to ever let go.

Thanks for reading all this if you bothered... Make of it what you will, it's not all bad and day-to-day life is usually pleasant and we really enjoy each others company, but with these underlying issues im sceptical about our future :-(

It's over fella! You're kidding yourself if you think this will ever work out. The moment you started going through her phone was the point it was over. Admit it, if her phone was sat that unlocked and she was out you wouldn't be able to resist having a quick look through it. The absolute definition of no trust. It will always be eating away at you no matter what. It's only a matter of time until you discover another random bloke with his dick inside her. Finish it now and move on, especially if you're thinking about having kids. Wrong wrong wrong....

[Smitters]

Chateauneufdupape said:

Its good to hear it from someone who's been through a break up and come out the other side, it's probably the best advice I'll receive in this thread, but it doesn't make it any easier to even contemplate finishing it. I suppose the right thing to do is rarely easy.

Thanks. It's ultimately worth the pain, IMO. If you think it'll be messy, mentally prepare yourself and hold firm in your decision. Talk to close friends and make sure you have their support so that when you want to rant and rave you do it at them, not her, or you are being tempted to reconsider, and they'll remind you why you're doing what you're doing. Or come on here and ask for advice/support. PH is nothing if not blunt, but ultimately, supportive and protective of their own.

Also remember, she's a big girl too - all the "what will I do now?" stuff that may come your way is not your problem. Be fair, be firm, be flexible, and know which battles to sidestep so you win the war - you don't need a screaming match over a toaster. And though it seems cold, make sure you control the money that's yours. Not a penny more, but to set the scene. Fair, but dividing assets. Tales of emptied/overdrawn joint accounts are rife.

Then, when all the st's over, you can make a stupid automotive decision... newly single men - predictable? Never. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=124...

Chin up.

[Prizam]

Its over, get out whilst you still can.

It will hurt, it will suck but you will soon be looking back on these events and be so glad you got out.

Think about it like this... You only know about events that you have found out about, though txt messages or slip up's. I can guarantee there are more "Incidents" that you don't know about.

I have been there with a ex before, and picking up my stuff and walking out was both the best, and most difficult thing i have done. And most importantly, no contact after the event. you will be hurting and talking with or seeing her again will only keep you hurting for longer.


Run away and get some one who gives a st about you.

[lambosagogo]

Prizam said:

Think about it like this... You only know about events that you have found out about, though txt messages or slip up's. I can guarantee there are more "Incidents" that you don't know about.

Absolutely this. What are the odds that the messages you saw were the only ones she sent or received? That, out of the blue, she was happy to talk about sex over sms with another guy. And soon after the Christmas party season as well. Improbable.

But the fact remains that she has probably done more misbehaving than you think but you have definitely done that which you accuse her of. That would suggest things just ain't right.

[Chateauneufdupape]

Thanks again for taking the time to reply chaps.

A quite update then:

After rowing every weekend pretty much since it happened, we got it all out and decided to move forward, and have had a good few weeks - almost like it never happened. Until this morning, I went to drop her off some lunch at work and I see the fat getting out of his car on his way in... Ive never wanted to run someone over so badly in all my life!

Apparently he's leaving next week (I did demand she get a new job if we are to work) but now I know what car he drives, it's a small town and Chances are I'll see him again and want to kill him every time (potentially dangerous, I'm not that sort of person but obviously this sort of thing can provoke certain emotions....) and if I see him with his wife and kid in tescos or whatever I don't think I could hold back, which would be unfair on his poor wife and child, I wouldn't want to break up a family!

I'm not really prepared to move house to another town but this has set me back a long way after things were just starting to get back to normal.

Time to evaluate everything, again.

I can safely say I would never do anything like this to anyone ever now, knowing what I now know and how it feels.

[SeeFive]

Chateauneufdupape said:

Thanks again for taking the time to reply chaps.

A quite update then:

After rowing every weekend pretty much since it happened, we got it all out and decided to move forward, and have had a good few weeks - almost like it never happened. Until this morning, I went to drop her off some lunch at work and I see the fat getting out of his car on his way in... Ive never wanted to run someone over so badly in all my life!

Apparently he's leaving next week (I did demand she get a new job if we are to work) but now I know what car he drives, it's a small town and Chances are I'll see him again and want to kill him every time (potentially dangerous, I'm not that sort of person but obviously this sort of thing can provoke certain emotions....) and if I see him with his wife and kid in tescos or whatever I don't think I could hold back, which would be unfair on his poor wife and child, I wouldn't want to break up a family!

I'm not really prepared to move house to another town but this has set me back a long way after things were just starting to get back to normal.

Time to evaluate everything, again.

I can safely say I would never do anything like this to anyone ever now, knowing what I now know and how it feels.

If you and your wife have got this sorted out, it is probably time to realise that you mean more to her than he does. Unless there is a sign of him encroaching on your relationship again, then I would say that as hard as it is, your mindset must be that he is a loser, has no future impact on your life and therefore is nothing to worry about.

Must be very tough for you, but you need to feel like the winner, see your wife's commitment to the relationship and put this loser behind you just as she has. I wonder how he feels when he sees you - and potentially you and her going forward?

[Condi]

Um..... so you did something you're not proud of but wont say what. Lets assume (because we all know) you slept with someone else. But you did what in your mind was honourable (and in most others, dishonourable,) by keeping it quiet. Forget any excuses, although Im impressed you managed to write such a long paragraph explaining why you did it. All of it a complete load of crap, IMO. You made a concious decision to sleep with someone else. That doesnt 'just happen' unless you went out and banged a call girl for an hour. Lets assume there was some kind of flirty texts, some dirty pictures, some thought behind it. Because there was. But she trusted you and didnt go through your phone, and believe in you.

Now, you caught some flirty texts between your gf and someone at work, by going through her phone when she wasnt at home. You go looking for something, and you'll always find it! Breach of trust right there my friend, right there... So anyway, you confront her (how you bring up a conversation starting with 'so I went through your messages' I dont know) but they admit to a kiss, but say it wasnt anything else. Suddenly its almost all over. What the fk?? Surely YOU are the one you need to be looking at. YOU are the ones who's royally screwed up, but because you didnt get caught 'its all right'? YOU are the one sneaking into her phone? And then you go on about trust....

Hypocrite much?

Chateauneufdupape said:

I think overall ive put up with more than I ever should have with her, but I know what it's like to make a mistake. At the moment I find it hard to trust she wouldn't do it again one day, I guess this is what needs to be earned back.

I think she's put up with more than she ever should have to from you as well. Whats to say high stress job, working away from home, staying in hotel rooms.. you dont end up taking that chick from the bar upstairs. I mean, you've done it once and nobody is ever going to find out, right?

Edited by Condi on Saturday 20th February 13:19

[Chateauneufdupape]

SeeFive said:

If you and your wife have got this sorted out, it is probably time to realise that you mean more to her than he does. Unless there is a sign of him encroaching on your relationship again, then I would say that as hard as it is, your mindset must be that he is a loser, has no future impact on your life and therefore is nothing to worry about.

Must be very tough for you, but you need to feel like the winner, see your wife's commitment to the relationship and put this loser behind you just as she has. I wonder how he feels when he sees you - and potentially you and her going forward?

I can't imagine he feels much, it's probably a case of silly man wants to have his cake and eat It too, I doubt there was much of an emotional connection there, probably bored married bloke trying to make his dull life a bit more interesting. Some of the people I work with seem to do it fairly regularly behind their wives backs and have done for a long time, to stave off the boredom it seems.

I like the sentiment of your post though, it's a nice positive spin on it. Thank you

[Chateauneufdupape]

Condi said:

I think she's put up with more than she ever should have to from you as well. Whats to say high stress job, working away from home, staying in hotel rooms.. you dont end up taking that chick from the bar upstairs. I mean, you've done it once and nobody is ever going to find out, right?

Edited by Condi on Saturday 20th February 13:19

As with everything, there is of course context...

But I won't attempt to defend myself in any way, hypocrisy at large completely. However, it doesn't really change the trust from my point of view, which is really the point of the thread. Its no competition, but I'd say doing something like that which means one partner can't go about their business in the town in which they live without a constant possibility of bumping in to the person involved isn't ideal.

I looked at her phone not because I was unnecessarily suspicious but because of things that have happened In the past, which shouldn't have, on her part. Lack of trust is never a good thing but I had good reason.

It's all a big mess and as much as I want everything to go back to how it should be/was before any of this happened it seems less and less likely. I guess once things are spoiled they can't always get better.

[Condi]

Chateauneufdupape said:

As with everything, there is of course context...

But I won't attempt to defend myself in any way, hypocrisy at large completely. However, it doesn't really change the trust from my point of view, which is really the point of the thread. Its no competition, but I'd say doing something like that which means one partner can't go about their business in the town in which they live without a constant possibility of bumping in to the person involved isn't ideal.

I looked at her phone not because I was unnecessarily suspicious but because of things that have happened In the past, which shouldn't have, on her part. Lack of trust is never a good thing but I had good reason.

It's all a big mess and as much as I want everything to go back to how it should be/was before any of this happened it seems less and less likely. I guess once things are spoiled they can't always get better.

No, but with respect you come across quite selfish. All you seem to be worried about is you, your trust, you going about town and seeing him. If you want to trust her, its you you have get over. Its all in your head. If you cant deal with it - which it sounds like you cant - you'll stay in a relationship which is doomed from the start. It will never be the same as it was before.

[The101]

I've just read the thread from the start, and I really do empathise with you OP

I know it's hypocritical, but it doesn't help the trust issues you have and it sounds like she's given you quite a hard time, not that it's any excuse but certainly can make your mental state of mind at the time exceptional.

As the poster above says, it won't be the same as before unless you let it. You won't feel like she deserves you to be back to normal sometimes, and she probably doesn't, but it needs to happen for things to move on. One of the problems is you have a bit of guilt about what you've done, I'd imagine it would make it difficult to give her a hard time about her actions too even though you'd want to in that situation.

It does sound a bit doomed anyway, no matter how much you want it to work. It can be hard giving up, ive been in pretty much the exact same situation give or take a few details.

I have also recently found my current girlfriend was texting another bloke and had a kiss and a few secret meetings. I haven't told her yet, but I'm going to get rid and start again. It's not going to be easy, but I don't want to prolong the inevitable, as I know I can't let something like that go. We had planned a happy ever after and it's absolutely killed me if I'm honest.

In both yours and my case, it sounds like the head is saying finish it and start over, heart is not letting you let go. But ive been through it before and I know from experience it'll hurt like hell, but it will be for the best and you will, in time, get over it.

[KnifeEdge]

I feel compelled to post on this,and as you can see from my post history,that doesn't happen very often.

15 years ago I found myself in a relationship that was similar to this and ultimately my mindset was also close to yours.I know you wanted to get out the car and fill the guy in,but, and I can't emphasise this enough, DON'T BOTHER, he isn't the problem, she is.

If she's good looking half the office probably wouldn't mind a go,but you rely on her integrity not the bloke's who work with her.

If it was just the infidelity that was the issue here then my response to this would be totally different, but the key point is you sound like a decent person, and I'm sorry to say it, but your girlfriend doesn't.

Her reaction to your mother's illness perfectly illustrates this. No normal person would consider you fortunate that she stuck with you while you were dealing with a dying parent. That's what a relationship is, being there for one another when it get's rough. It's called compassion and empathy,traits that decent people don't lord over you to make themselves look exceptional.

Unfortunately for you mate she's manipulative and self centered. Barring some catastrophic event(which this isn't) people don't change.Do you think she's on Mumsnet agonising over her mistake?

It might seem like a 4 year relationship is a lot to walk away from.... but in the grand scheme of things it isn't. You're young,bright,hard working with reasonably good taste in wine. You'll be fine. In a few years you'll be banging something else which is just as fit but hopefully not mental.

Get rid,go party and hopefully you'll never realise what a close shave you had.

Edited by KnifeEdge on Saturday 20th February 15:03

Edited by KnifeEdge on Saturday 20th February 15:04