Older parents - dealing with stubborn Dads!
Discussion
Impasse said:
Antony Moxey said:
I know this sounds incredibly harsh and uncaring but is it worth pointing out to him what an utterly selfish b*****d he's being to everyone, especially your mum?
If my daughter ever talks to me in that way I'll tell her to mind her own business.Impasse said:
Why not wait until they ask for help? Insisting that your way is the only way is just as selfish as any claim you make of him.
I insist on nothing I only try to offer solutions to cries for help from my Mum and the problems that I see with my own eyes - housebound and with regular falls etc.Thanks for the input all as I guess shared frustrations were getting to me today. Any solution will be driven only by practical immediate circumstance I guess. Ce la vie. Cheers.
Huntsman said:
Perhaps the OP should up sticks and move to nearby his 'rents. One presumes his parents did masses for him in the past, time to return the favour?
I've moved back to Devon to look after my elderly mum and whilst I have no doubt it was the right thing to do morally, it also completely mangled my career and social life. My parents live five miles away, my sister and I are both local and do what we can to make life as easy as possible for our parents - Dad is 91, Mum 88 and they have carers in twice a day.
They have both been told by their GP to move about more, or they will completely lose the ability to walk.
Our problem is that their days are largely spent asleep in front of the tv, and because neither of them remember to use the various sticks/Zimmer/wheeled walking device when they get up, they fall over. Dad's especially bad in this respect, and after his last fall we were advised by the local elderly care team that he's been categorised as an "Amber" risk, which means that another fall (requiring paramedic/ambulance call-out) will see him downgraded to "Red" and a discussion will be required about moving him into a home.
Which means that Mum won't be able to cope, and she'll be in a home as well. Although, as we have been advised, it won't be the same home, because there are no care homes in our area equipped to deal with couples.
My sister and I have told them, in no uncertain terms, that one more fall would be "it" and that they have had their final warning.
Dad still gets out of his chair and stumbles around clutching the furniture for support. The Zimmer has become a permanent feature of the corner of the lounge, and his walking stick hangs on the back of his chair.
I'm just glad that he's stopped driving.
They have both been told by their GP to move about more, or they will completely lose the ability to walk.
Our problem is that their days are largely spent asleep in front of the tv, and because neither of them remember to use the various sticks/Zimmer/wheeled walking device when they get up, they fall over. Dad's especially bad in this respect, and after his last fall we were advised by the local elderly care team that he's been categorised as an "Amber" risk, which means that another fall (requiring paramedic/ambulance call-out) will see him downgraded to "Red" and a discussion will be required about moving him into a home.
Which means that Mum won't be able to cope, and she'll be in a home as well. Although, as we have been advised, it won't be the same home, because there are no care homes in our area equipped to deal with couples.
My sister and I have told them, in no uncertain terms, that one more fall would be "it" and that they have had their final warning.
Dad still gets out of his chair and stumbles around clutching the furniture for support. The Zimmer has become a permanent feature of the corner of the lounge, and his walking stick hangs on the back of his chair.
I'm just glad that he's stopped driving.
Ken Figenus said:
I suspect you are new to such issues, like me, but I think in the bigger scheme of the world/life when an individual doesn't actually leave the house/drive/socialise anyomre, the family care, compassion and support factor is far more important than where the usual armchair and TV are... Especially when the massively negative impact of any relocation for one working family far outweighs the relocation impact for the retirees. I appreciate you may see that as selfish, but its hardly arrogant. And all views (whether I like them or not) are good as I'm in a right pickle.
On reflection, I seem to have been on my high horse last night. It's a nasty situation to be in, and likely to be one that more of us face as the medical profession gets better at keeping people alive. I wish you all the best in finding a happy solution.I call it the Terminator years...
"Father is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with, he doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until he's dead - or fallen over and broken his hip".
The most fun is the hearing aid discussion. God, that's been a fun few years.
"Father is out there! He can't be bargained with. He can't be reasoned with, he doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And he absolutely will not stop, ever, until he's dead - or fallen over and broken his hip".
The most fun is the hearing aid discussion. God, that's been a fun few years.
Would it work if you agreed with everything that a cranky old man wants.
Sit down with him across a kitchen table with a cup of tea. Agree with all situations including those that are not in his best interest and assure him that you wont bring any of these up again in the future. Tell him that he means a geat deal to you and you want to be a greater part of his life in the time that you have left and ask him for some ideas on how that can be achieved.
Just my twopenneth on what works for this cranky old man.
Sit down with him across a kitchen table with a cup of tea. Agree with all situations including those that are not in his best interest and assure him that you wont bring any of these up again in the future. Tell him that he means a geat deal to you and you want to be a greater part of his life in the time that you have left and ask him for some ideas on how that can be achieved.
Just my twopenneth on what works for this cranky old man.
Dermot O'Logical said:
Dad still gets out of his chair and stumbles around clutching the furniture for support. The Zimmer has become a permanent feature of the corner of the lounge, and his walking stick hangs on the back of his chair.
Snap! What IS that!? I got a mate in to give him a lesson in how to use the walker (in case he thought it difficult/cumbersome). My dad thanked him for his help and advice and gave it a good go. He then walked to the kitchen, fell and landed looking at the walker he'd left behind! Still wont b use it!My dad was a not so much stubborn as in denial over medical issues. He didn't like doctors or hospitals and that killed him sooner than is should. He, died between Christmas and new year at 78 of complications related to bowel and liver cancer. I live 3+ hours away and he hid how ill he was from me and my brother (who was local) for years.
Stupid old man.
Even on the day day he went into hospital for the last time he told mum not to call me as it "was too far" so when I did find out from my brother later in the late afternoon I'd had half a bottle of wine and had to sober up before leaving. He had passed away before I made it. Still cross with them both about that.
As it turns out his dad and grandad died of the same thing, I didn't know. Told my wife not to plan a lavish 80th for me. He didn't do the poo test all old people are supposed to do that should have given early warnings especially with a family history.
His stubbornness has robbed me of dad and the kids of a grandad and mum of a husband. It also made mum a carer for much of the last year, both my brother and I could have helped more if we had known the magnitude. I also think they are too respectful of doctors/hospitals. The NHS did a brilliant job but neither of them pushed hard the NHS enough to get appointments or other support in a timely manner.
I don't know what I could have done differently but I'd say, make sure they are looking after themselves as much as possible.
Stupid old man.
Even on the day day he went into hospital for the last time he told mum not to call me as it "was too far" so when I did find out from my brother later in the late afternoon I'd had half a bottle of wine and had to sober up before leaving. He had passed away before I made it. Still cross with them both about that.
As it turns out his dad and grandad died of the same thing, I didn't know. Told my wife not to plan a lavish 80th for me. He didn't do the poo test all old people are supposed to do that should have given early warnings especially with a family history.
His stubbornness has robbed me of dad and the kids of a grandad and mum of a husband. It also made mum a carer for much of the last year, both my brother and I could have helped more if we had known the magnitude. I also think they are too respectful of doctors/hospitals. The NHS did a brilliant job but neither of them pushed hard the NHS enough to get appointments or other support in a timely manner.
I don't know what I could have done differently but I'd say, make sure they are looking after themselves as much as possible.
I know where the OP is coming from, and in my experience (lots!), there's nothing to be gained by pressurising/encouraging/cajoling these stubborn folks. It's difficult but I would just accept that your help is not wanted, and as you say, you are unable to relocate to be closer to your dad. Realistically, what else can you do?
My father-in-law is 83 now and getting to be deaf as a post, so he feels left out of a lot of conversations. We keep suggesting that he looks into getting hearing aids, but he won't have any of it, probably due to some stubborn pride thing. The mother-in-law is only just 70 and is looking into getting herself a set, so maybe that will change his mind to the idea.
MYOB said:
I know where the OP is coming from, and in my experience (lots!), there's nothing to be gained by pressurising/encouraging/cajoling these stubborn folks. It's difficult but I would just accept that your help is not wanted, and as you say, you are unable to relocate to be closer to your dad. Realistically, what else can you do?
Nothing. The very worst time in their life and someone is 'interfering' and as they see it telling them what to do. Possibility the only resort is to force them to do xyz, 'tough love' I guess, but it breaks the parent - child dynamic, not easy to do. This ain't just Older parents, my old mans 52 in a couple of weeks and been diagnosed with Parkinsons for 24 months, he lives alone and refuses to seek any help. Not taking any Medication and of the opinion that this will kill him if he doesn't do it first......
I've broke down and cried to my OH, quietly suggested he go to the doctor or seek help and also shouted at him (was needed) and had my brothers do the same but the stubborn old s
t wont do a thing. the only thing he now leaves the house for is to play golf or when i ask him to pop over to mine to watch the Kids while my OH leaves for work before i'm in. I do this to get him out.
He up't and left his job in June 2015 as as far as I can tell has given up any hope of working again and slowly giving up altogether.
Nothing we say makes a difference and I suppose it's his choice to do this but it's a hard pill to swallow when your watching the man you worshiped deteriorating in front of you.
I've broke down and cried to my OH, quietly suggested he go to the doctor or seek help and also shouted at him (was needed) and had my brothers do the same but the stubborn old s
t wont do a thing. the only thing he now leaves the house for is to play golf or when i ask him to pop over to mine to watch the Kids while my OH leaves for work before i'm in. I do this to get him out. He up't and left his job in June 2015 as as far as I can tell has given up any hope of working again and slowly giving up altogether.
Nothing we say makes a difference and I suppose it's his choice to do this but it's a hard pill to swallow when your watching the man you worshiped deteriorating in front of you.
Ken Figenus said:
Snap! What IS that!? I got a mate in to give him a lesson in how to use the walker (in case he thought it difficult/cumbersome). My dad thanked him for his help and advice and gave it a good go. He then walked to the kitchen, fell and landed looking at the walker he'd left behind! Still wont b use it!
Put yourself in his shoes for a bit. He's lived his adult life being fit, in control and - presumably - happily married. Brought up kid(s) who are caring and concerned.He knows he is getting old, infirm and much less able, as is his wife. To openly admit that is difficult, and equally difficult for you.
He will admit eventually, when both of them realise it's inevitable. You're doing what you can, but you can't force decisions on them, so be patient and gently persuasive.
This may or may not be of help to you, but it is a true story.
My next door neighbours at our old house were a couple in their 80s. Both mentally fit but getting on. The lady was beginning to have health problems - hip replacement type of things and she wanted to move to a more appropriate home.
One day she knocked on my door to
Say goodbye. They weren't moving, she was.
She told me how after 60 odd years of marriage his refusal to move or to do anything to make her life easier was too much and she was moving out to a flat in a development specifically designed for older people.
She would come and visit her husband now and then and would be a different person - like 10 years had dropped off her.
The chap seemed quite content to be on his own.
I'm not suggesting your parents should go their separate ways but perhaps your stubborn Dad assumes he'll always get his own way.
If they have their marbles then you really must treat them as adults. It's bloody hard. My parents were a nightmare, more so my mum after my Dad died. Being whisky drinking UKIP supporting Daily Mail readers didn't help.
My next door neighbours at our old house were a couple in their 80s. Both mentally fit but getting on. The lady was beginning to have health problems - hip replacement type of things and she wanted to move to a more appropriate home.
One day she knocked on my door to
Say goodbye. They weren't moving, she was.
She told me how after 60 odd years of marriage his refusal to move or to do anything to make her life easier was too much and she was moving out to a flat in a development specifically designed for older people.
She would come and visit her husband now and then and would be a different person - like 10 years had dropped off her.
The chap seemed quite content to be on his own.
I'm not suggesting your parents should go their separate ways but perhaps your stubborn Dad assumes he'll always get his own way.
If they have their marbles then you really must treat them as adults. It's bloody hard. My parents were a nightmare, more so my mum after my Dad died. Being whisky drinking UKIP supporting Daily Mail readers didn't help.
eldar said:
Put yourself in his shoes for a bit. He's lived his adult life being fit, in control and - presumably - happily married. Brought up kid(s) who are caring and concerned.
He knows he is getting old, infirm and much less able, as is his wife. To openly admit that is difficult, and equally difficult for you.
He will admit eventually, when both of them realise it's inevitable. You're doing what you can, but you can't force decisions on them, so be patient and gently persuasive.
This is good advice.He knows he is getting old, infirm and much less able, as is his wife. To openly admit that is difficult, and equally difficult for you.
He will admit eventually, when both of them realise it's inevitable. You're doing what you can, but you can't force decisions on them, so be patient and gently persuasive.
My parents are getting on now (84 and 82) dad has had a couple of falls, and needed two replacement hips and a pinned femur that mean his mobility (and especially balance) isn't great.
The problem is that, I think, he sees using a stick/cane/frame as giving in, the start of a slippery slope.
No one thinks of themselves as old. The body might be 80 but the brain still sees a fit healthy body, that can take on challenges with aplomb. He doesn't want the change of dynamic, becoming dependent, a 'burden'.
The best you can do is support, help, be there, and maybe one day he'll have an epiphany and move down closer to you. But until then you are likely to merely entrench him further in resisting change.
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