Why do some people put a T in "Chorizo"?
Discussion
pinchmeimdreamin said:
toasty said:
Forget foreign sausages, half the country can't even pronounce the word 'bath'.
It is, of course, pronounced 'barth'.
Its Baff you tard It is, of course, pronounced 'barth'.
I (and many others) pronounce it as Baa-th, council types would say Baff, but nobody says Barth!
I found out last year that the French pronounce "Reims" as "Rance".
As a schoolboy with O-Grade French under my belt, I thought "Beaulieu" should be pronounced as "bo-lyoo", much to my subsequent embarrassment when we went to visit the effing place.
And in Dublin many years ago my hosts were much baffled by my attempts to pronounce "Taoiseach" (it's tea-shoch, in case you were interested).
Mind you, coming from a country that includes gems such as Milngavie, Dalziel, Alford, Garioch and Strathaven, maybe it's karma.
As a schoolboy with O-Grade French under my belt, I thought "Beaulieu" should be pronounced as "bo-lyoo", much to my subsequent embarrassment when we went to visit the effing place.
And in Dublin many years ago my hosts were much baffled by my attempts to pronounce "Taoiseach" (it's tea-shoch, in case you were interested).
Mind you, coming from a country that includes gems such as Milngavie, Dalziel, Alford, Garioch and Strathaven, maybe it's karma.
Kermit power said:
We have foreign words that have been adopted into the English language. That's perfectly normal.
Plenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pedants_corner/1304866-chorizo-pronunciationPlenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
Mumsnet is best for people that care about this kind of thing.
yellowtang said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
toasty said:
Forget foreign sausages, half the country can't even pronounce the word 'bath'.
It is, of course, pronounced 'barth'.
Its Baff you tard It is, of course, pronounced 'barth'.
I (and many others) pronounce it as Baa-th, council types would say Baff, but nobody says Barth!
el stovey said:
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pedants_corner/1304866...
Mumsnet is best for people that care about this kind of thing.
No it's not. They're just talking about how it should be pronounced, not why.Mumsnet is best for people that care about this kind of thing.
Kermit power said:
We have foreign words that have been adopted into the English language. That's perfectly normal.
Plenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
As you say, if it was purely down to being Anglicised then it would almost certainly be pronounced as Z, so what is the influence that has created the legacy of 'tz'?Plenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
The desire to pronounce foreign words in their native manner rather than Anglicise from the off is a very middle class trait. In the 70s and 80s the English middle classes didn't holiday in Spain but in Italy. Pronouncing 'tz' is a very Tuscan trait and so I suspect that cooking shows in the UK in the 70s and 80s pronounced Chorizo in the Italian manner, hence the legacy today where we effectively have the three ways, the newer Spanish way, the Anglicised and the legacy Italian.
Kermit power said:
el stovey said:
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pedants_corner/1304866...
Mumsnet is best for people that care about this kind of thing.
No it's not. They're just talking about how it should be pronounced, not why.Mumsnet is best for people that care about this kind of thing.
This kind of being snooty or annoyed about how other people pronounce stuff is common on mumsnet. People pronounce words differently for a large number of reasons, especially if that word has different origins to their own, the last thing I want to see is people all going around talking the same. Language is a fluid ever changing thing. I like that people use and pronounce words differently.
Edited by el stovey on Friday 29th April 11:07
FredClogs said:
I say Choritzo, as in Chore - itz - zoh, in my best Peter Kay sound a like voice...
Nowt you can do about it is there? I can say what I want. If you're from East Lancashire and say it in a Spanish accent you're even more of a t
t than I am ((unless you are a native Spanish speaker and just over for the Bury (that's Burry not Berry) black pudding festival))
I don't want to do anything about it, beyond understand why? If you'd never heard or seen the word before, would you, in your East Lancs accent, add in a T?Nowt you can do about it is there? I can say what I want. If you're from East Lancashire and say it in a Spanish accent you're even more of a t
t than I am ((unless you are a native Spanish speaker and just over for the Bury (that's Burry not Berry) black pudding festival))Michelin...
OH and family lived in a francophone part of the world and father was involved in the tyre business (chemicals supply). Michelin is always pronounced in the french manner and I've adjusted to suit. I now have to remember to NOT do that when talking to the local village workshop as the look of disgust is something to behold.
The outlaw has been buying Dunlops recently, for some reason...
OH and family lived in a francophone part of the world and father was involved in the tyre business (chemicals supply). Michelin is always pronounced in the french manner and I've adjusted to suit. I now have to remember to NOT do that when talking to the local village workshop as the look of disgust is something to behold.
The outlaw has been buying Dunlops recently, for some reason...
Halmyre said:
I found out last year that the French pronounce "Reims" as "Rance".
As a schoolboy with O-Grade French under my belt, I thought "Beaulieu" should be pronounced as "bo-lyoo", much to my subsequent embarrassment when we went to visit the effing place.
And in Dublin many years ago my hosts were much baffled by my attempts to pronounce "Taoiseach" (it's tea-shoch, in case you were interested).
Mind you, coming from a country that includes gems such as Milngavie, Dalziel, Alford, Garioch and Strathaven, maybe it's karma.
Hainault, Theydon Bois, Shepton Beauchamp etc etcAs a schoolboy with O-Grade French under my belt, I thought "Beaulieu" should be pronounced as "bo-lyoo", much to my subsequent embarrassment when we went to visit the effing place.
And in Dublin many years ago my hosts were much baffled by my attempts to pronounce "Taoiseach" (it's tea-shoch, in case you were interested).
Mind you, coming from a country that includes gems such as Milngavie, Dalziel, Alford, Garioch and Strathaven, maybe it's karma.
wolfracesonic said:
English/Spanish friend of mine got wound up over James Martins mispronunciation of it. I guess the correct way is to pronounce the Z as a 'th' sound, like in 'thirst': But I'm English so I'll stick with choritso, thank you very much
But you say "peetsah" not "pizzer" don't you? Surely only idiots continue pronouncing something incorrectly when they have been informed of the correct pronunciation?Kermit power said:
FredClogs said:
I say Choritzo, as in Chore - itz - zoh, in my best Peter Kay sound a like voice...
Nowt you can do about it is there? I can say what I want. If you're from East Lancashire and say it in a Spanish accent you're even more of a tt than I am ((unless you are a native Spanish speaker and just over for the Bury (that's Burry not Berry) black pudding festival))
I don't want to do anything about it, beyond understand why? If you'd never heard or seen the word before, would you, in your East Lancs accent, add in a T?Nowt you can do about it is there? I can say what I want. If you're from East Lancashire and say it in a Spanish accent you're even more of a t
t than I am ((unless you are a native Spanish speaker and just over for the Bury (that's Burry not Berry) black pudding festival))I'm know language expert but if Chorizo were native Anglo Saxon word it would be pronounce Ko-reez-o with the inflection (stress) on the first syllable, like Chorister. Part of the whole thing with the foreigners is they start the word softly and work their way up to the end, or stress the middle syllable, we go in with a FANfair and tail off at the end.
Kermit power said:
We have foreign words that have been adopted into the English language. That's perfectly normal.
Plenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
IANALE, but moronitude and fPlenty of those foreign words have been anglicised, and again, that's perfectly normal. Nobody calls Paris "Paree", of course. Except for the French, and we all know they don't count....
But why is it that some people insist on pronouncing Chorizo as "ChoriTzo"??? If the word was actually spelt with a T which was silent in Spanish, then Choritzo would be a perfectly natural anglicisation in the same way that pronouncing Bruschetta as "brooshetta" is even though the Italians pronounce it "broosketta" because the c and ch sounds are reversed between English and Italian, but ChoriTzo just makes no sense!!!
If you win a competition, you get a prize, not a "priTze", so why do we get ChoriTzo?? Are there any linguistics experts on here who could shed any light on it?
kwittery are my guesses...FredClogs said:
Probably not, neither would I if I hadn't seen Fawlty towers, but I have.
I'm know language expert but if Chorizo were native Anglo Saxon word it would be pronounce Ko-reez-o with the inflection (stress) on the first syllable, like Chorister. Part of the whole thing with the foreigners is they start the word softly and work their way up to the end, or stress the middle syllable, we go in with a FANfair and tail off at the end.
Or it could be ch as in church or chopper... English has enough ways to confuse people in its pronunciation without anyone choosing to make up new ones by adding errant Ts into foodstuffs!! I'm know language expert but if Chorizo were native Anglo Saxon word it would be pronounce Ko-reez-o with the inflection (stress) on the first syllable, like Chorister. Part of the whole thing with the foreigners is they start the word softly and work their way up to the end, or stress the middle syllable, we go in with a FANfair and tail off at the end.
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