RiverSimple Rasa (hydrogen fuel cell)
Discussion
http://riversimple.com/the-technology-behind-the-h...
Interesting prospect (and prospectus!) but despite some big companies developing hydrogen fuel cell cars I can't say I'm yet persuaded over an EV or PHEV. (Infrastructure/energy to create the hydrogen etc)
If and when it launches it'll be on a rental basis, at comparable total monthly costs to a normal car it says. For me something more akin to the GMD T.27 EV would be more of a go-er (i.e. much simpler and cheaper to produce - this even has a CF monocoque
ETA: they do however quote 40g co2/km well to wheel for hydrogen produced from natural gas.
Interesting prospect (and prospectus!) but despite some big companies developing hydrogen fuel cell cars I can't say I'm yet persuaded over an EV or PHEV. (Infrastructure/energy to create the hydrogen etc)
If and when it launches it'll be on a rental basis, at comparable total monthly costs to a normal car it says. For me something more akin to the GMD T.27 EV would be more of a go-er (i.e. much simpler and cheaper to produce - this even has a CF monocoque
ETA: they do however quote 40g co2/km well to wheel for hydrogen produced from natural gas.
Edited by danp on Thursday 12th May 20:46
The problem for me is that in order to use a low average power drivetrain, the vehicle itself becomes rather compromised. It's too far from say a nissan leaf, which is a decent sized, 4 seat car, to be that practical imo. Electricifying conventional passenger cars is going to see us through a good few years yet before we have to embrace this level of compromise if we want to maintain our personal mobility....
I really like it. Interesting how it has only 11hp. And it's interesting that the regen braking recovers approx 90% of kinetic energy (according to the video - website says 50%).
Very different to the Mirai. The Mirai is meant to be a normal family car that happens to be hydrogen powered. The Rasa seems closer to the VW XL1, both in styling and in the use of a very low power engine to maintain cruising speed, with acceleration provided through electric motors.
A few things I would like to change though:
Very different to the Mirai. The Mirai is meant to be a normal family car that happens to be hydrogen powered. The Rasa seems closer to the VW XL1, both in styling and in the use of a very low power engine to maintain cruising speed, with acceleration provided through electric motors.
A few things I would like to change though:
- It seems they don't sell the car outright. You have to rent it and pay per mile. I understand why they're doing it, but I like to own things.
- Max speed is only 60mph. I think it really needs to be 80mph. That would provide ample speed for anywhere in the UK and also allow use on continental autoroutes.
Good point. The big advantage of hydrogen is fast fill-ups and decent range, and that really becomes a critical factor on long journeys. In town BEVs are already strong.
I think that given an 80mph top speed, and a slightly longer range, it could fulfill many more needs.
Interesting that the prototype is EU type approved. That means it meets all the modern crash regs etc. I thought they would be sidestepping that (isn't there some kind of exemption for low-volume cars?) but kudos to them, they've addressed it.
I might write to them and ask if I can visit. I'd love to see it close up. I guess they will be at shows etc.
I think that given an 80mph top speed, and a slightly longer range, it could fulfill many more needs.
Interesting that the prototype is EU type approved. That means it meets all the modern crash regs etc. I thought they would be sidestepping that (isn't there some kind of exemption for low-volume cars?) but kudos to them, they've addressed it.
I might write to them and ask if I can visit. I'd love to see it close up. I guess they will be at shows etc.
Shilvers said:
Thanks, hadn't seen that. I liked the panning shot that had a Tesla Model S and old Fiat 500 alongside it in their car park!A fascinating company, car and (non) ownership model, I hope they succeed but IMHO it'll be a very small niche that this appeals to (but don't suppose they'll be making many). Perhaps the 4 seater will be (slightly!) more mainstream.
Edited by danp on Saturday 14th May 23:09
Shilvers said:
Thanks for the link - fascinating! It's an interesting project, but doesn't as far as i can tell hold any specific USP except for the bushiness model (rental, rather than retail). They are just integrating other peoples systems into a vehicle, rather than developing any specific tech themselves. And currently of course, the hydrogen angle hobbles the car with a high cost, low range, and poor economy, compared to a pure Grid or HomeCharged EV.
But i come back to the fact, that today, and for at least the next 5 years, the vehicle itself is too far a step away from "conventional" passenger cars we have all become used to, and that suit our lifestyles. Take the Smart4two, hardly flying out of the show room because for most people, having a car to just commute in (2 seats, small load capacity), is a lavish expense.
But i come back to the fact, that today, and for at least the next 5 years, the vehicle itself is too far a step away from "conventional" passenger cars we have all become used to, and that suit our lifestyles. Take the Smart4two, hardly flying out of the show room because for most people, having a car to just commute in (2 seats, small load capacity), is a lavish expense.
I kind of like these high mpg projects from an engineering challenge POV, but clearly the market doesn't give a shït about such things. The big mistake seems always to be aesthetics. It's a tough gig, but VW managed to make the XL1 look really cool, so having the Riverspimple car look like Noddy rogering a tadpole is unfortunate and probably a market killer.
The whole business model is dubious as well. They need to offer an economic advantage over carbon fuelled transport otherwise they will remain niche. And why H2 fuel cell? That's an unnecessary complication that I'd bet the equivalent range in batteries would weigh around the same. When you get down to such low energy consumption levels, charge time and battery weight/cost aren't as critical, surely?
The whole business model is dubious as well. They need to offer an economic advantage over carbon fuelled transport otherwise they will remain niche. And why H2 fuel cell? That's an unnecessary complication that I'd bet the equivalent range in batteries would weigh around the same. When you get down to such low energy consumption levels, charge time and battery weight/cost aren't as critical, surely?
Surely these comments need full consideration
http://teslaupdates.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tesla-c...
Hydrogen is so inefficient, expensive and dangerous to be of any practical use !
http://teslaupdates.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/tesla-c...
Hydrogen is so inefficient, expensive and dangerous to be of any practical use !
I`m supprised no one has made a reply to the link I made last week. This is a part quote ;- "What you need to look at is the efficiency of going from primary energy to consumed energy, and hydrogen vehicle uses roughly three times more than an electric vehicle. That’s a fundamentally tough limit. If all the other economic issues can be sorted out, you end up in a place that’s going to be three times more per mile to drive and has a three times more environmental footprint". With this fact that an electric car will travel at least 3 X further per Kwh consumed than a Hydrogen fuel cell powered car. Will this mean the Hyd. Fuel Cell is a non economic concept versus pure battery cars in the near future ? (leaving out the longer range benefit & extra cost & complexity of HFC )
There's really two questions.
There's producing an ultra-efficient vehicle.
And there's producing an alternative-fuel vehicle, hydrogen here.
If you build something light and efficient, it doesn't need much power - whatever the source - so it won't use much fuel.
If you build something that uses fuel with a low energy density, you need to built it light and efficient.
As for a car that weighs about half a ton and has about 10bhp, then they're a bit late to the game.
1949, 9bhp, 495kg unladen.
There's producing an ultra-efficient vehicle.
And there's producing an alternative-fuel vehicle, hydrogen here.
If you build something light and efficient, it doesn't need much power - whatever the source - so it won't use much fuel.
If you build something that uses fuel with a low energy density, you need to built it light and efficient.
As for a car that weighs about half a ton and has about 10bhp, then they're a bit late to the game.
1949, 9bhp, 495kg unladen.
Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff