Police detain 11 year of girl with a neurological disability
Discussion
From the BBC today.
An 11-year-old girl with a neurological disability was handcuffed and restrained with a mesh hood and leg straps while being held in custody.
The child was arrested, handcuffed and hooded by Sussex Police for minor offences. If that was not bad enough she was held for 60 hours without an appropriate adult. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for her.
Has any police officer been punished for these assaults on her.
Two retired (with full pension?) No change to normal disciplinary procedures there then.
“Management action” was taken against six custody sergeants. It would be interesting to know what that means.
The two officers who restrained the girl with handcuffs have been disciplined. No doubt the slap on the wrist did not hurt as much as the forcible cuffing did.
Another custody sergeant was disciplined for not informing an appropriate adult in a timely manner.
Three other officers had no further action taken against them. Does that suggest that some action had already been taken against them?
Are the details of the disciplinary action taken against all these officers a state secret or will we get to know what, if any, punishment has been metered out to them?
Do not hold your breath.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-36472234
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36483552
An 11-year-old girl with a neurological disability was handcuffed and restrained with a mesh hood and leg straps while being held in custody.
The child was arrested, handcuffed and hooded by Sussex Police for minor offences. If that was not bad enough she was held for 60 hours without an appropriate adult. Can you imagine how terrifying that must have been for her.
Has any police officer been punished for these assaults on her.
Two retired (with full pension?) No change to normal disciplinary procedures there then.
“Management action” was taken against six custody sergeants. It would be interesting to know what that means.
The two officers who restrained the girl with handcuffs have been disciplined. No doubt the slap on the wrist did not hurt as much as the forcible cuffing did.
Another custody sergeant was disciplined for not informing an appropriate adult in a timely manner.
Three other officers had no further action taken against them. Does that suggest that some action had already been taken against them?
Are the details of the disciplinary action taken against all these officers a state secret or will we get to know what, if any, punishment has been metered out to them?
Do not hold your breath.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-sussex-36472234
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36483552
Edited by davidball on Wednesday 8th June 17:27
Sounds like this http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'm surprised she was taken to the cells when sectioned under the mental health act. Usually social services and the NHS are falling over themselves to help with what is their area of business. Oh wait...
An 11 year old should rarely be taken to the police cells.
Restraints etc are used primarily to stop the detainee hurting themselves. It's better to restrain them than have them hit their head off the walls, bite their fingers off / make ligatures etc. It's also more controlled than having people use the force upon them.
Regardless of the lack of severity, they are seemingly avoidable things.
An 11 year old should rarely be taken to the police cells.
Restraints etc are used primarily to stop the detainee hurting themselves. It's better to restrain them than have them hit their head off the walls, bite their fingers off / make ligatures etc. It's also more controlled than having people use the force upon them.
davidball said:
Are the details of the disciplinary action taken against all these officers a state secret or will we get to know what, if any, punishment has been metered out to them?
You've already quoted it... It's 'management advice' i.e. words of advice. The lowest outcome. Regardless of the lack of severity, they are seemingly avoidable things.
I think the duration of the ordeal is totally unacceptable given her age & medical condition, the failings go beyond the police as she was already in the system.
However, if temporary restraining her minimised or eliminated the risk of her injuring herself and/or others (which leaves the police open to compo claims) then I don't see what other option they had. I wouldn't put up with being spat at or physically assaulted so why should the police?
However, if temporary restraining her minimised or eliminated the risk of her injuring herself and/or others (which leaves the police open to compo claims) then I don't see what other option they had. I wouldn't put up with being spat at or physically assaulted so why should the police?
Edited by shep1001 on Wednesday 8th June 17:45
As usual the police were the last stop on what we can safely assume was a long road of mental health system inadequacies.
The idea that they would have anything at all to do with her if they didn't have to is laughable. They wouldn't have kept her in a cell at all if there had been any other choice, and they wouldn't have kept her there that long if there had been any other choice.
The idea that they would have anything at all to do with her if they didn't have to is laughable. They wouldn't have kept her in a cell at all if there had been any other choice, and they wouldn't have kept her there that long if there had been any other choice.
Statement from Sussex Police Federation regarding the IPCC report into Sussex Police interaction with Child H
“We are disappointed with the way our officers are being portrayed regarding their dealings with this Child H. Although only 11, she displayed a high level of violence and her restraint was necessary to prevent her harming herself or others. When someone of any age or mental capacity displays violence towards themselves or others, it is not practical to carry out a health assessment there and then and they are restrained to prevent injury. Not to do so would be neglectful.
It is interesting to note that her mother is reported to have said “what she needed was patience, respect and the support of her mother”. It is therefore slightly ironic that it was her mother who felt the need to call the police on several occasions.
It is also sad to note that yet again the police service is the emergency service of last resort when there are other public bodies who could and should been dealing with Child H. The Police Federation has for the last few years been saying that police cells are not the place for people with mental health issues but in reality in a lot of cases, we remain the default position.
We are unable to comment further as the IPCC have chosen not to share their report with the officers concerned but it is also of interest to note that despite what is being reported, no officer was dealt with by way of formal misconduct procedures”.
“We are disappointed with the way our officers are being portrayed regarding their dealings with this Child H. Although only 11, she displayed a high level of violence and her restraint was necessary to prevent her harming herself or others. When someone of any age or mental capacity displays violence towards themselves or others, it is not practical to carry out a health assessment there and then and they are restrained to prevent injury. Not to do so would be neglectful.
It is interesting to note that her mother is reported to have said “what she needed was patience, respect and the support of her mother”. It is therefore slightly ironic that it was her mother who felt the need to call the police on several occasions.
It is also sad to note that yet again the police service is the emergency service of last resort when there are other public bodies who could and should been dealing with Child H. The Police Federation has for the last few years been saying that police cells are not the place for people with mental health issues but in reality in a lot of cases, we remain the default position.
We are unable to comment further as the IPCC have chosen not to share their report with the officers concerned but it is also of interest to note that despite what is being reported, no officer was dealt with by way of formal misconduct procedures”.
jamesson said:
Do tell us your experiences in dealing with violent children with mental health issues. I'd love to know how you would have handled this.
Obviously your run of the mill police officer is neither trained nor able to deal with a child like this and proper medical and psychological professionals should have been informed immediately. Torturing the child with handcuffs applied with arms behind her back, leg restraints and a hood was never going to calm the girl down. They failed miserably in their duty of care to the girl. The abysmal minimal disciplinary action taken against these officers shows that the Hillsborough syndrome of disregard for natural justice is still rampant in some police forces.rxe said:
One does wonder where the outraged mother was for this large number of hours.
If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
I agree entirely. If my handicapped child was held by the police in such circumstances I would have a lawyer with me at the police station within the hour raising all kinds of hell. If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
rxe said:
One does wonder where the outraged mother was for this large number of hours.
If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
I am sure it was on the radio she was deemed not to be an 'appropriate adult' so she was aware of the situation unfolding?If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
singlecoil said:
The BBC feasted on this story on the lunchtime news. I should have realised then that David would be keen to make his views on the police known (as if they weren't well known enough already).
I am not surprised that one of the usual apologists for police misconduct has woken up.I was waiting for one of the usual suspects to pick this up. Highly predictable.
Can you show me in that report where there is any mention of mental health services, the NHS, ambulance, social services. There isn't. Because as usual they say b
ks, nothing to do with us. I've had our wonderful mental health unit slam the door in my face because a kid was 'aggressive'. Stood there thinking "now what?"
She was in the cells because her parents and every other 'specialist' washed their hands of her and expected the Police to magically solve the situation.
So Mr 'David ACAB' Ball. Please do offer your solution in dealing with a violent, aggressive individual who is constantly spitting in your face and constantly attacking you. Not for five minutes or thirty minutes, for hour, after hour, after hour. Please do share your expertise. We're all dying to know
Can you show me in that report where there is any mention of mental health services, the NHS, ambulance, social services. There isn't. Because as usual they say b
ks, nothing to do with us. I've had our wonderful mental health unit slam the door in my face because a kid was 'aggressive'. Stood there thinking "now what?"She was in the cells because her parents and every other 'specialist' washed their hands of her and expected the Police to magically solve the situation.
So Mr 'David ACAB' Ball. Please do offer your solution in dealing with a violent, aggressive individual who is constantly spitting in your face and constantly attacking you. Not for five minutes or thirty minutes, for hour, after hour, after hour. Please do share your expertise. We're all dying to know
davidball said:
Obviously your run of the mill police officer is neither trained nor able to deal with a child like this and proper medical and psychological professionals should have been informed immediately. Torturing the child with handcuffs applied with arms behind her back, leg restraints and a hood was never going to calm the girl down. They failed miserably in their duty of care to the girl. The abysmal minimal disciplinary action taken against these officers shows that the Hillsborough syndrome of disregard for natural justice is still rampant in some police forces.
Applying handcuffs is not torture. Neither are leg restraints. Same goes for a spit hood. They are all there to protect the person to whom they are applied or anyone else dealing with them.Their duty of care to the girl is to prevent her from harming herself. They also have a duty of care to protect other people.
Perhaps the minimal disciplinary action is a result of knowing the full facts of the case, something you don't.
As per one of my previous post, how would you have dealt with it?
davidball said:
Obviously your run of the mill police officer is neither trained nor able to deal with a child like this and proper medical and psychological professionals should have been informed immediately. Torturing the child with handcuffs applied with arms behind her back, leg restraints and a hood was never going to calm the girl down. They failed miserably in their duty of care to the girl. The abysmal minimal disciplinary action taken against these officers shows that the Hillsborough syndrome of disregard for natural justice is still rampant in some police forces.
Hillsborough? Oh do fk off. Maybe the officers should have stood and got bitten, punched and spat at?
davidball said:
singlecoil said:
The BBC feasted on this story on the lunchtime news. I should have realised then that David would be keen to make his views on the police known (as if they weren't well known enough already).
I am not surprised that one of the usual apologists for police misconduct has woken up.I am proud to speak up on behalf on the police whenever I see them being unfairly treated by know-it-all police hating types like you.
Elroy Blue said:
I was waiting for one of the usual suspects to pick this up. Highly predictable.
Can you show me in that report where there is any mention of mental health services, the NHS, ambulance, social services. There isn't. Because as usual they say bks, nothing to do with us. I've had our wonderful mental health unit slam the door in my face because a kid was 'aggressive'. Stood there thinking "now what?"
She was in the cells because her parents and every other 'specialist' washed their hands of her and expected the Police to magically solve the situation.
So Mr 'David ACAB' Ball. Please do offer your solution in dealing with a violent, aggressive individual who is constantly spitting in your face and constantly attacking you. Not for five minutes or thirty minutes, for hour, after hour, after hour. Please do share your expertise. We're all dying to know
Having spent some time studying and working with such patients as part of my psychology degree I can state with certainty that using such force on them is counter productive. Can you show me in that report where there is any mention of mental health services, the NHS, ambulance, social services. There isn't. Because as usual they say b
ks, nothing to do with us. I've had our wonderful mental health unit slam the door in my face because a kid was 'aggressive'. Stood there thinking "now what?"She was in the cells because her parents and every other 'specialist' washed their hands of her and expected the Police to magically solve the situation.
So Mr 'David ACAB' Ball. Please do offer your solution in dealing with a violent, aggressive individual who is constantly spitting in your face and constantly attacking you. Not for five minutes or thirty minutes, for hour, after hour, after hour. Please do share your expertise. We're all dying to know
As for your ACAB slur. It is of no consequence. I firmly believe you can only be offended by the opinions of people you respect.
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