Christians on PH?

[daemon]

ciege said:

I think god created, or stepped into evolution to create man - I guess like the 2001 model.

And this is where it all really falls on its arse.

If you believe the whole universe in 6 days thing is a simplified version of something like evolution, then what about all the people who existed before say, 2000BC and before old testament times?

And if you believe its literal, then what about all the scientific proof of existence before that time?

And then theres the crux of it - at some point god watched everything going on - killings murders rapes invasions battles for thousands of years of humanity and then at some point said to his angels, "right lads we're going to have to step in here", and chose a backward tribe in the ahole of knowwhere to give His Word to. Not the chinese - who had learned how to make paper and write by this time.

And then EVERYTHING else that happens related to the bible happens within a 100 mile radius!!

Oh, and not once did God say - by the way - the earth is ROUND. Its not flat.

[daemon]

And i wouldnt care if the Christian Sun God religion was unique, but its not. There are at least 1,000 Sun God religions and most of them pre-date christianity, and have a remarkable amount in common with fundamental supposedly "christian" events

And then theres the old testament V new testament. The old testament god is a blood thirsty arrogant vengeful god, then along comes jesus in the new testament and its all love and flowers.

[standards]

daemon said:

No stories about jesus were written down at the time or taken from first hand accounts - they were ALL done several generations later.

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 28th June 18:20

One generation according to biblical scholars-a similar gap between reported events and writing, in the case of Mark's gospel-as the Falklands War and today.

[daemon]

standards said:

daemon said:

No stories about jesus were written down at the time or taken from first hand accounts - they were ALL done several generations later.

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 28th June 18:20

One generation according to biblical scholars-a similar gap between reported events and writing, in the case of Mark's gospel-as the Falklands War and today.

Biblical scholars. Thats handy.

And why did noone write about it at the time? Some bloke going round performing miracles? There were a load of scholars in that area at the time, and we have writings from them on other events, but not one mentions jesus ever - not his miracles, not his rising from the dead. Nothing.

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

You do know that between "letting himself out" and "flying off" he was seen by and talked to many people?

No you dont know that.

We know that maybe 40-80+ years later "some" people, who were starting a religion, conveniently then wrote down what they had been told by other people who had been told by other people.

[stuartmmcfc]

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

[anonymous-user]

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately.

That's handy.

[Butter Face]

If Jesus appeared tomorrow and starting knocking out miracles, the whole world would know in seconds.

To say that in biblical times people didn't embellish, lie and make stuff up is just mad. Very convenient to believers I'm sure!

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

You believe the Bible is gods word? Really? All the contradictions, all the horror and murder in the old testament, the belief the world was flat, the treating of women as inferior to men...

[WD39]

mybrainhurts said:

What sort of car would Jesus drive?

Rolls Royce Silver Cloud, of course.

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

And only those with a vested interest in Christianity took notice?

Handy that. No one else documented all these miracles and rising from the dead, etc.

[stuartmmcfc]

Butter Face said:

If Jesus appeared tomorrow and starting knocking out miracles, the whole world would know in seconds.

I think no one would believe him, think he was a magician or fake, and he'd come to a very unfortunate end.

[stuartmmcfc]

daemon said:

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

And only those with a vested interest in Christianity took notice?

Handy that. No one else documented all these miracles and rising from the dead, etc.

Ok you've convinced me

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

Butter Face said:

If Jesus appeared tomorrow and starting knocking out miracles, the whole world would know in seconds.

I think no one would believe him, think he was a magician or fake, and he'd come to a very unfortunate end.

As noone has ever performeed miracles, then he would be either a magician or a fake.

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

daemon said:

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

And only those with a vested interest in Christianity took notice?

Handy that. No one else documented all these miracles and rising from the dead, etc.

Ok you've convinced me

Whatever pal. You're the one who thinks you've an invisible friend in the sky.

[Butter Face]

stuartmmcfc said:

Butter Face said:

If Jesus appeared tomorrow and starting knocking out miracles, the whole world would know in seconds.

I think no one would believe him, think he was a magician or fake, and he'd come to a very unfortunate end.

I beg to differ, if you can actually perform miracles, I mean actually cure the sick, walk on water and turn water into wine it wouldn't take long to convince people.

But TBH, until the day the Lord almighty appears in the sky above me or I drop down dead and my eternal soul meets him on a cloud I'll stay away from religion.

[standards]

daemon said:

There were a load of scholars in that area at the time

And this proliferation of scholars scouring the Galilean area at the time are? That would be handy.
Stuartmmcfc chap is right too about the striking ability to pass on an oral tradition accurately.
This is of course not to say that all the events in the gospels and/or bible would pass one of my old tutor's Time Machine Test-what would we see/hear if we could travel back in time.

And understand 1st century Aramaic, Hebrew & Greek. Well he could I'd struggle through with the latter. Possibly.

[daemon]

Butter Face said:

But TBH, until the day the Lord almighty appears in the sky above me or I drop down dead and my eternal soul meets him on a cloud I'll stay away from religion.

I think you're fairly safe on both accounts.

[Butter Face]

daemon said:

Butter Face said:

But TBH, until the day the Lord almighty appears in the sky above me or I drop down dead and my eternal soul meets him on a cloud I'll stay away from religion.

I think you're fairly safe on both accounts.

I know. I've got faith in the decision I've made

[daemon]

standards said:

And this proliferation of scholars scouring the Galilean area at the time are? That would be handy.

No problem. Theres 50+ listed here as your starter for 10.

Knock yourself out.

http://ed5015.tripod.com/BHistoriansAndJesus129.ht...

standards said:

Stuartmmcfc chap is right too about the striking ability to pass on an oral tradition accurately.

But only those involved with the religion recalled those stories? No one else did? Or thought to write down about this miracle worker who turned out to be the son of god and rose from the dead?