Christians on PH?

[anonymous-user]

It's worth reading or watching the docs online about the Roman Flavian dynasty and how there is evidence (that word again) the supports the theory that the New Testament and Jesus was a clever literary creation, based on the Old Testament prophecies, used to control Judaism under the reign of Roman emperors.

A Jewish turncoat, Josephius, who was captured by the Roman ruler Vespasian during a battle, helped ensure the new works were in a Jewish-stylee and would be accepted and believed by the Jewish followers.

It also does help explain away the fact that the bible somehow managed to survive the Roman empire, bearing in mind the Romans would destroy all copies of any writings that they didn't agree with. Hence why the Dead Sea Scrolls were hidden away.

Later on another Roman emperor, Constantine, also had a had in further bible-tweaking. Then later King James git his hand in too.

As a collection of stories to believe, their age, origin and the amount of subsequent editing, rewriting and translating is staggering. It's like the world's best example of Chinese whispers.

[kowalski655]

The Romans weren't averse to writing stuff down, but no record there.
IIRC a whole bunch of other tombs opened up when JC came back. Now THAT is the sort of thing people would remember...if it actually happened.

[kowalski655]

stuartmmcfc said:

Butter Face said:

If Jesus appeared tomorrow and starting knocking out miracles, the whole world would know in seconds.

I think no one would believe him, think he was a magician or fake, and he'd come to a very unfortunate end.

He'd be gunned down cold by the CIA

[standards]

daemon said:

standards said:

And this proliferation of scholars scouring the Galilean area at the time are? That would be handy.

No problem. Theres 50+ listed here as your starter for 10.

Knock yourself out.

http://ed5015.tripod.com/BHistoriansAndJesus129.ht...

standards said:

Stuartmmcfc chap is right too about the striking ability to pass on an oral tradition accurately.

But only those involved with the religion recalled those stories? No one else did? Or thought to write down about this miracle worker who turned out to be the son of god and rose from the dead?

Your link is very interesting. Not exactly attempting cool objectivity is it?
There were other oral into written a little before the time of Christ-the deutero-canonical books contain some examples. And some of them are (so I'm reliably informed) pretty awful.

Ultimately those that somehow passed the test of time are still with us-like the gospels...

[smn159]

daemon said:

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
The point is that the Bible didn't say he escaped the tomb and flew away. It says that people saw him. Since I believe the Bible is Gods word, why would I doubt that's what happend?
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

You believe the Bible is gods word? Really? All the contradictions, all the horror and murder in the old testament, the belief the world was flat, the treating of women as inferior to men...

I've always wondered why the Bible makes no mention of the internet or mobile phones or the AI singularity. You'd have thought that God could have tipped us off

[stuartmmcfc]

smn159 said:

I've always wondered why the Bible makes no mention of the internet or mobile phones or the AI singularity. You'd have thought that God could have tipped us off

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

[stuartmmcfc]

In addition, Jesus didn't treat women as inferior. Quite the opposite.

[Troubleatmill]

stuartmmcfc said:

In addition, Jesus didn't treat women as inferior. Quite the opposite.

Well - he does quite like making the odd woman beg like a dog.
She knows her place now.


Matthew 15:21-28King James Version (KJV)

21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

smn159 said:

I've always wondered why the Bible makes no mention of the internet or mobile phones or the AI singularity. You'd have thought that God could have tipped us off

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

Oh come on - he could have pointed out the world wasnt flat.

Its kind of odd actually, because anything he says or eludes to backs up the world was flat.

Gee, its almost like it was written by regular people of the time.....

[daemon]

stuartmmcfc said:

In addition, Jesus didn't treat women as inferior. Quite the opposite.

Ah yes, ignore the entire old testament because its a bit embarassing really and doesnt fit with the whole love and peace thing.

[Trabi601]

stuartmmcfc said:

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

Serious question - and please don't be offended.

But I get the hint in other threads that you, and possibly your wife, too, are disabled. You're also a Man City fan.

God either really hates every bone in your body, or he's lining you up for the most awesome afterlife ever.

[kowalski655]

stuartmmcfc said:

smn159 said:

I've always wondered why the Bible makes no mention of the internet or mobile phones or the AI singularity. You'd have thought that God could have tipped us off

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

Forget about the internet,what about just mentioning things like kangaroos, or bacteria?
I'm sure some knowledge of how disease spread would have come in handy at that time,but god just wrote in his book exactly what people already knew about, almost as if they made it up themselves.

[daemon]

Or how two of every animal in the entire world got on to the ark?

Oops, thats the old testament again. We dont like to talk too much about the old testament.

[durbster]

stuartmmcfc said:

In Bibical times there was a very strong tradition of repeating things orally very accurately. There still is in primitative tribes.
...
It's not like today where "Chinese whispers" would change the message each time it was told. You can be fairly certain that a "story" wouldn't change over 40 years or a lot more.

How do you know this? What tribes?

Human beings are terrible at accurately remembering events accurately, even immediately after they happen. That's not a skill we've lost because it's largely down to the basic biology of how our senses work.

Either these fantastical, magical, epic events actually happened (and the Romans didn't write it down for some reason), or there were some stories that had a little embellishment along the way. Given humans love telling stories, the latter seems infinitely more likely to me.

[daemon]

Its all so fking banal you could barely make it up. Except someone did.

You've an invisible friend in the sky who watches your every move. He says hes your friend but hes very demanding and jealous. You must do exactly what he wants you to do, otherwise you will burn in hell for all eternity. But he really really loves you....

And just to confuse things further, theres maybe 2000 religions to chose from. Only one of them is right though and all religions will aggressively defend their religion as The One True Religion and The One True God, so chose carefully.

In fact you wont probably have to chose, as it happens, the religion of the society you were born into 99% of the time seems to be The One True Religion anyway and you'll be indoctrinated into that religion from birth and long before you've a choice.

[daemon]

durbster said:

How do you know this? What tribes?

Human beings are terrible at accurately remembering events accurately, even immediately after they happen. That's not a skill we've lost because it's largely down to the basic biology of how our senses work.

Either these fantastical, magical, epic events actually happened (and the Romans didn't write it down for some reason), or there were some stories that had a little embellishment along the way. Given humans love telling stories, the latter seems infinitely more likely to me.

Some stories?

Which ones were even remotely plausible?

And its not like any of them were particularly original, having pretty much been lifted wholesale from other previous religions.

[Some Gump]

What the fk is wrong with you s?

I'm an athiest. OP is a Christian. I have no desire to change his beliefs - why would I? It doesn't affect me one jot.

Athiests preaching that Atheism is the one true god is just as wky as any other belief preaching. Have a word with yourselves, some of you - you're acting like tts.

[Huff]

Some Gump said:

What the fk is wrong with you s?

I'm an athiest. OP is a Christian. I have no desire to change his beliefs - why would I? It doesn't affect me one jot.

Athiests preaching that Atheism is the one true god is just as wky as any other belief preaching. Have a word with yourselves, some of you - you're acting like tts.

Agree strongly.

[stuartmmcfc]

durbster said:

How do you know this? What tribes?

I've seen it on the telly
Anyway, I may be right, I may be wrong and tbh I can't answer any of your lots questions to any satisfaction so I'll leave it.
The only thing I will say is that every question asked, I've heard a hundred times before, infact I've asked some myself.
Better and more knowledgable people have explained and satisfied me and I'm happy with their answers.

[stuartmmcfc]

Trabi601 said:

stuartmmcfc said:

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

Serious question - and please don't be offended.

But I get the hint in other threads that you, and possibly your wife, too, are disabled. You're also a Man City fan.

God either really hates every bone in your body, or he's lining you up for the most awesome afterlife ever.

You cheeky fker! (See what I did there!)

Some facts: God must be a City fan. Proof: look what he's done for us.

Seriously though, you're right, I am disabled now but luckily the Wife isn't and is of the powerfully built director types ( infact she was interviewed in one of the broadsheets last year as one of the top female executives in the UK, so I'm quite proud of her )
Tbh, it's the constant jibes about parts of my life which means I'm not offended by jokes like this or some of posts on this thread