Christians on PH?

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

The more I think about it the more I get annoyed that cancer exists because of the sins of some christians.

That's just not on.

A friend in the States is having treatment for melanoma and some brain tumours. It's all going well I'm pleased to say but on his Facebook page of updates, the amount of comments attributing his recovery to the greatness of God is staggering. The medics hardly get a mention, and if they do someone chips in with 'Praise be! God make the doctors capable of curing him'.

I wa so tempted to point out that if there was a God, it wouldn't have given him the condition in the first place.

[kowalski655]

Cupradupra said:

kowalski655 said:

All this ^
And all that perfect stuff you say is his creation, is also fully explainable through science...only science actually has the proof!

Proof of what? Proof that it was created through a "Big Bang"?

Can you show me this proof please?

You mentioned trees,mountains etc,that's evolution and plate movement right there, all of which we have proof of
And where science doesn't have all the answers, it just doesn't give up and say god did it, the gaps in knowledge get filled in,and they get smaller all the time.

[Speed addicted]

DrSteveBrule said:

desolate said:

The more I think about it the more I get annoyed that cancer exists because of the sins of some christians.

That's just not on.

A friend in the States is having treatment for melanoma and some brain tumours. It's all going well I'm pleased to say but on his Facebook page of updates, the amount of comments attributing his recovery to the greatness of God is staggering. The medics hardly get a mention, and if they do someone chips in with 'Praise be! God make the doctors capable of curing him'.

I wa so tempted to point out that if there was a God, it wouldn't have given him the condition in the first place.

No-one ever thanks God for the earthquake. Just for the rescue.

[shakotan]

desolate said:

God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform.

Another cop-out.

Can't explain it? Must just be 'God's Will'.

[shakotan]

Cupradupra said:

Sickness in all it's forms is a result of the fall of man and our sin.

So I guess there isn't a single recorded indident of a devout Christian or a servant of God every devoping cancer then?

[Nimby]

Cupradupra said:

Proof of what? Proof that it was created through a "Big Bang"?

Can you show me this proof please?

You only get proofs in mathematics.

In science you examine the evidence, formulate a (disproveable) theory, then modify / discard it as more evidence emerges.
Cosmic microwave background radiation and the expanding universe are some evidence for the Big Bang. If conflicting evidence or a better theory come along, science will consider it.

Religion on the other hand ...

[Butter Face]

I do find it odd that an omnipotent God, with love for all of humanity equally would sit back as 3 nutcases bomb an airport killing lots of people in the name of a false 'God' and just be like 'yeah, I'm just gonna let that happen'


Yeah yeah, free will etc etc, if there really was a God he would be going Old Testament on people murdrering in the name of a false God IMO. I recall him being pretty jealous and not a fan of that st.


Exodus 20:3-6: “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.”

[princealbert23]

Huff said:

Some Gump said:

What the fk is wrong with you s?

I'm an athiest. OP is a Christian. I have no desire to change his beliefs - why would I? It doesn't affect me one jot.

Athiests preaching that Atheism is the one true god is just as wky as any other belief preaching. Have a word with yourselves, some of you - you're acting like tts.

Agree strongly.

Aggressive atheism appears to be a whole new religion ironically, with a ready supply of zealots.

[Trabi601]

desolate said:

Cupradupra said:

Sickness in all it's forms is a result of the fall of man and our sin.

And there we have it.

That's why people get aerated when discussing religion.

It's all getting a bit Glenn Hoddle in here!

[vetrof]

clio007 said:

I do notice a lot of people tend to expect a supernatural/miracle experience to want to have faith in a higher being.With the greatest of respect who do you or think we are that we should receive an experience of such? We are born pooping in our diapers and reliant on others and we grow old pooping in our diapers reliant on others. In between we think we are somebody or something special that we demand a miracle.

This is the part about ¨faith¨ I (as a former catholic) have trouble with. As you say, who am I (or anyone) to expect personal verification of the claims of religion? It´s not part of the deal.
The problem arises when you track back to the origins of a particular faith. You see they invariably (stand to be corrected) seem to start with this very thing; personal verification to some individual or group. Miracles, divine communication, whatever. Which is then passed on as being the ¨truth¨. So why is this evidence not given to everyone?

Seems to me that to have belief in god requires you to believe that some person or persons deep in antiquity got the story straight in the first place and that every subsequent re-telling (if it were true) was accurate.

Knowing the ease with which people are able to mislead, lie, forget and just plain old misremember things, I find it difficult to have faith in the veracity of tales of ancient tribes.

Edited by vetrof on Wednesday 29th June 12:26

[anonymous-user]

Really can't argue with Ricky Gervais on this matter.

And with that, the little 'x' is clicked so this doesn't appear in my stuff.

Peace and love to all men (apart from Farage)

[ChocolateFrog]

Cupradupra said:

shakotan said:

Cupradupra said:

shakotan said:

Which is another cop-out.

"Where is the proof?"

"Oh, it's everywhere, you just have to find it..."

It's not an Easter Egg hunt.

You're right, it's not an Easter egg hunt. The trees, sky, rain, sun, mountains, seas etc are all in plain sight. I only have to look at them and see the immense detail in even the smallest leaves of the smallest trees, to see that my God Created these things so perfectly.

How about those bugs that eat their way into other creatures and live of them until their egss hatches and cause the zombified animal to implode.

That God's perfect creation too?

Is cancer God's 'perfect' creation?

I guess you've never heard of the food chain. Are you bothered when eating a burger?

Sickness in all it's forms is a result of the fall of man and our sin.

But hey, I don't intend to get into an argument. As a sinner saved by God's Grace, who still struggles every day to live up to God's standards, a Christian who will never meet God's standards I like to think of it this way:

If you're right and I'm wrong, so what, when I die, that will be the end of it all. I'll have lived a thoroughly enjoyable life, enjoying cars, sports, and the other things I enjoy, while going to Church on Sunday and Trying my best to please God. BUT, If i'm right and you're wrong, the consequences will be so much worse.

Which is it? Struggle every day or a thoroughly enjoyable life.

[durbster]

Cupradupra said:

...When has anyone out there ever seen a massive explosion create anything so perfect and finely balanced. Lets take for example the last few Big Bangs/Explosions we have heard about.....

Perfect and finely balanced?

We are under siege by hostile environments. We can't survive in the hottest or coldest parts of Earth. We can't survive in the sea. We can't survive at great depths or great heights, and we can't survive in space.

Look at the size of the solar system. Then the galaxy. Then the universe. It's unimaginably vast. And all we have is a small portion of a tiny rock, inside a paper-thin sliver of atmosphere.

Nature is totally chaotic. It is not finely balanced and ecosystems are highly changeable. This planet and its inhabitants are in a constant state of change, and always have been.

Of course there is beauty and magnificence but there is also chaos and horror, so in what possible way this be described as perfect?

[shakotan]

Basically this is the excuse religious people use to defend any questioning of the logic of God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVgVB3qsySQ

[TwigtheWonderkid]

SpeckledJim said:

Cupradupra said:

To all those atheists, It takes as much faith on your part to believe in the THEORY of Evolution and Faith in the other theories.

In our day and age with the technology we have, you would think someone would have been able to have proven evolution and thus there being no God. Still there is only theories.

Take the "Big Bang" Theory for example, that one day there was a huge explosion and there just happened to be a planet that had conditions just so perfect that we were able to exist. Ever so slightly closer to the sun and we would just burn and die, ever so slightly further away from the sun and we would just freeze and die.

When has anyone out there ever seen a massive explosion create anything so perfect and finely balanced. Lets take for example the last few Big Bangs/Explosions we have heard about.....

Just last night, a big explosion, loads of people dead.

A while ago, some big explosions in Brussels Airport, again, people killed, things destroyed.

Huge explosions cause chaos, and destruction.... they don't make perfect conditions for life.

The Bible tells us that we only have to look around us to see proof that He exists.

You NEED to go and check what the word theory means in a scientific context before you go any further down this deeply embarrassing road.

Evolution is proven. The Theory of Evolution has never been contradicted. Nothing we know doesn't fit with Evolution.

The Big Bang was many billions of years before gravity created the planet (s) from stardust. That's how it is such a nice round shape. It doesn't have much to do with explosions in airports. You plonker.

You beat me to it...almost word for word.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

princealbert23 said:

Aggressive atheism appears to be a whole new religion ironically, with a ready supply of zealots.

When Richard Dawkins starts flying jets into mosques, I'll take your comment seriously.

[shakotan]

Cupradupra said:

I'll have lived a thoroughly enjoyable life, enjoying cars, sports, and the other things I enjoy, while going to Church on Sunday and Trying my best to please God. BUT, If i'm right and you're wrong, the consequences will be so much worse.

Yes, this sounds very enjoyable.

Cupradupra said:

...who still struggles every day to live up to God's standards..

You are the very embodiment of the abused housewife, who stays no matter how horrible things are because he puts food on the table and a roof over their heads, who smiles through gritted teeth and tells the children "Don't anger your father when he comes home drunk, and he won't beat us".

Point is why can't God just say "Hey, I know you've never been religious, that you've never prayed or been to church on Sunday, but you've lived an excellent life, been kind to everyone and helped your fellow man when you could. You're the very model of the sort of person we want in heaven, so up you come, entrance is on me!"? Surely that's what he wants from his 'creations', for them to live in peace and harmony and be excellent to their fellow men and beast? Surely believing in him is irrelevant as far as he is concerned?

[Higgs boson]

Well, somebody had to.

[Jakeztx]

daemon said:

stuartmmcfc said:

smn159 said:

I've always wondered why the Bible makes no mention of the internet or mobile phones or the AI singularity. You'd have thought that God could have tipped us off

I wondered about that.
It struck me though that I don't always tell my children about the future or the harsh facts of life until they're ready.
Perhaps God didn't think we were ready, as his children, for that knowledge?

Oh come on - he could have pointed out the world wasnt flat.

Its kind of odd actually, because anything he says or eludes to backs up the world was flat.

Gee, its almost like it was written by regular people of the time.....

Sorry I am coming late to this one, just objectively because I have seen you raise this point of the bible making no mention of the Earth being round... Isaiah 40:22 says speaking of God - "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth" (King James bible). The word used here is the Hebrew word "חוג" or "chwg" which can be translated both into "circle" or "sphere"... http://translation.babylon-software.com/hebrew/to-... Obviously some sources disagree with this translation but someone wil ldisagree with anything if you look hard enough right?!

[Cupradupra]

shakotan said:

You are the very embodiment of the abused housewife, who stays no matter how horrible things are because he puts food on the table and a roof over their heads, who smiles through gritted teeth and tells the children "Don't anger your father when he comes home drunk, and he won't beat us".

Point is why can't God just say "Hey, I know you've never been religious, that you've never prayed or been to church on Sunday, but you've lived an excellent life, been kind to everyone and helped your fellow man when you could. You're the very model of the sort of person we want in heaven, so up you come, entrance is on me!"? Surely that's what he wants from his 'creations', for them to live in peace and harmony and be excellent to their fellow men and beast? Surely believing in him is irrelevant as far as he is concerned?

I'm not sure that I understand your point.... In no way do I feel abused or like i'm "staying no matter how horrible things are" I know i'm not perfect and I also know that I will be in Heaven as I have put my trust in Jesus, but I am thoroughly enjoying my life, and yes, I know that bad things can happen. Like any of us, I will have bad days and good days but that won't affect my Faith. For me, my Faith will help me through the hard times.

With regards to your second point. God loves everyone, whether you're black, white, short, fat, thin Homosexual or heterosexual. We need to put our trust in Him to go to Heaven. God gave us free will to choose to follow him. The Bible tells us in Ephesians 2 Verse 8-9:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I don't know all the answers to your questions, but that's like saying "I know you didn't get your uni degree due to failing all the exams and coursework, but sure I know you worked pretty hard through those 4 years, so we'll just give you degree anyway even though you didn't do that one vital thing that needs to be done and pass all your exams and coursework"

The Bible tells us we need to put our trust in Jesus to get to Heaven, not just do good works.