Wisdom with Age

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Discussion

AndrewCrown

Original Poster:

2,280 posts

113 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Now all the referendum data is being collated it appears the older voter was more inclined towards exit.

There is significant vitriol flying about how the more aged voter won't have to live with the decision and how they may have shafted the future for the young.

I look at this through a different lens... Anyone over 45 has seen enough 'cycles' of global change to form a view' Cognisant of 1000s of world changing events and seen politicians come and go.... We learn, become wiser and now wince at some of the silly things we did in our youth...

So are the older exit voters actually giving the young an opportunity here?

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Older voters had the wisdom to actually go out and vote on the matter.

Had younger voters turned out in similar numbers to older voters and voted in a similar manner to those who did - the outcome of this referendum would have been very different.

Younger voters couldn't be arsed about making a decision on their own 'future' it seems.

bitchstewie

50,783 posts

209 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
I said on another thread that I've heard and read quite a bit from younger voters complaining about the way this vote may have shafted their opportunities around travel and freedom of movement of labour etc.

What I haven't read is much on their opinions on things like "ever closer union", Junckers, Martin Schulz, the unelected bureaucrats and the stuff that I've yet to hear anyone say they actively voted for.

I don't know if I'd call it "wisdom with age" rather than perhaps not being lured by the prospect of "free stuff"?

I should add I voted remain in case anyone thinks I'm seeing one side of this, though I did so mostly because it's a very nuanced vote and on balance I felt things would remain more stable if we stayed in, and if you're in it's easier to come out than it is to come back in once you're out.

tenfour

26,140 posts

213 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Moonhawk said:
Older voters had the wisdom to actually go out and vote on the matter.

Had younger voters turned out in similar numbers to older voters and voted in a similar manner to those who did - the outcome of this referendum would have been very different.

Younger voters couldn't be arsed about making a decision on their own 'future' it seems.
Indeed. And not all the younger voters were inclined to remain bent over Junkers' barrel any way. I have a young, Kenyan friend (ex City lawyer etc.) who nearly broke her Facebook when she announced amidst her Champagne-socialist, Guardianista peers that she did in fact vote LEAVE!




glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
If the turnout was lower I might have agreed with you. But with a turnout of 72% you have people voting who don't usually show any interest.

I suspect that, like with the indyref, you have a lot of people with no interest or experience of politics beyond stories in the Sun, Metro or Daily Mail.

Campaigning these days doesn't seem very cerebral, so I can only imagine the bulk of voters they're both chasing arent the brightest.

I also suspect that older voters are more likely to use their vote as a judgement on the past as opposed to a balance of probabilities for the future.

Heres some exit polling data from people who voted and their motivations-

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-unite...

Edited by glazbagun on Sunday 26th June 10:40

SeeFive

8,280 posts

232 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
There are some wise youngsters and some foolish elders.

However, there is not much of a substitute for experience. I couldn't research the EU position and come up with half as much real knowledge of how it works as, for example Hannan has, a guy who is putting his real experience out there irrespective of the personal costs to him.

And he doesn't look "that" old to be fair.

Einion Yrth

19,575 posts

243 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
SeeFive said:
There are some wise youngsters and some foolish elders.

However, there is not much of a substitute for experience. I couldn't research the EU position and come up with half as much real knowledge of how it works as, for example Hannan has, a guy who is putting his real experience out there irrespective of the personal costs to him.

And he doesn't look "that" old to be fair.
He's 44.

Puggit

48,355 posts

247 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
The main manifestation of wisdom with age is in the apparent %ages of each age who voted. I haven't seen verified figures (and it would be exit poll only) but apparently the youth who are complaining about losing their birthright didn't vote. Only 25% of them did, with an inverse proportion of old fogies did vote.

mike9009

6,918 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
I would say there are more dementia sufferers in the over 45 age bracket than below 45 smile

55palfers

5,893 posts

163 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
It's high time to stop blaming the electorate and look to who provided the information on which the voting decisions where based.

Both sides ran negative, childish, illiterate, uninformative and generally appalling, amateurish campaigns.

I don't recall the Remain camp coming out with what could be good for us and the Leave lot just banged on about the spurious £350M a day for the NHS and border control.

Tossers the lot of them.

Trouble is, who is there to actually negotiate our EU divorce with any degree of competence?

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
So what do the younger PH'rs suggest I do when any of my children ( 4) Stepchildren (3) and grandchildren (7 and counting) ask for my advice / assistance in future?

If their cars break down.......problems at work........what uni should they go to.......fixing their house etc etc etc etc


Why you asking me? I am just a decrepit, stupid old fogie so make your own decisions? sort it out for yourself?...oh and BTW any chance of any of the £000000's contributed to your house deposits, cars etc etc etc back?

FWIW I have many many many life experiences as well as a degree and my life won't be affected by IN or OUT very much.but I voted OUT with the true belief it is the right thing for my Kids and grandkids.....

Altruism is a very rare commodity nowadays but some of us still have a least a modicum of it left....some societies value their elders, unfortunately it appears this country now seems to resent them - such a shame.

eta

Forgot to mention....I've done equity release on the house, cashed in the pensions, bought a boat and off sailing around the world for a few years before you bang me up in a home coz I got no money left biglaugh

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 26th June 11:04


Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 26th June 11:14

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Some really good posts on this thread.

music

That was for Glastonbury.

Getting back to the point in hand. The young are idealistic and the old people rose tinted. Both have always therefore had the same sort of impact on politics now and in the past.

The difference this time is there is, on both sides of the Atlantic, thoughts that the politicians are getting a bit too far removed from what the grass roots think. In the US it is Congress etc, over here the EU government that seems to sit above electable country governments.

I'm a 48 year old ex ex ex graduate who voted for us to leave who also bought a Lemmy t -shirt recently RIP. So guess I am an outlier.

The times, they are a changing....

Evolved

3,554 posts

186 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
glazbagun said:
If the turnout was lower I might have agreed with you. But with a turnout of 72% you have people voting who don't usually show any interest.

I suspect that, like with the indyref, you have a lot of people with no interest or experience of politics beyond stories in the Sun, Metro or Daily Mail.

Campaigning these days doesn't seem very cerebral, so I can only imagine the bulk of voters they're both chasing arent the brightest.

I also suspect that older voters are more likely to use their vote as a judgement on the past as opposed to a balance of probabilities for the future.

Heres some exit polling data from people who voted and their motivations-

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-unite...

Edited by glazbagun on Sunday 26th June 10:40
It's a little insulting to constantly read that the leavers obv weren't the brightest don't you think? If the lines weren't so blurred and facts a little clearer then the decision would have been a lot easier to make for most. As it is, the whole thing from start right through to the fallout we're dealing with now has been handled very badly.

AreOut

3,658 posts

160 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
it's generation that with its hard work made life easy for these youngsters who seem to spend most of their time on social networks

so I can't see anything wrong with them having a say

Gandahar

9,600 posts

127 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
mike9009 said:
I would say there are more dementia sufferers in the over 45 age bracket than below 45 smile
As a 48 year old I visited my mother in laws caravan on Friday. It is near Hythe in Kent.

We got past the Maidstone services on the M20 and my 14 year old daughter said

"Are we in Devon yet?"

Having dementia I was not sure. Where the nearest toilets were was more of a concern biggrin

Garvin

5,157 posts

176 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
The young in society seem to hold their elders in contempt for having had it so good, great pensions, why they can't get on the housing ladder, lack of jobs/careers etc., etc.

If the old have it so good and the young have it so bad why then did the crinklies not vote for the status quo and the young not vote for change and a shake up?

Could it be that the old have, in fact, voted for what they perceive to be a better future for the young and the young just no longer have any courage? Or do the young, in fact, actually think they have a jolly good life after all and are just a generation of lilly-livered whingers and moaners?

AndrewCrown

Original Poster:

2,280 posts

113 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
excellent point
alfie2244 said:
So what do the younger PH'rs suggest I do when any of my children ( 4) Stepchildren (3) and grandchildren (7 and counting) ask for my advice / assistance in future?

If their cars break down.......problems at work........what uni should they go to.......fixing their house etc etc etc etc


Why you asking me? I am just a decrepit, stupid old fogie so make your own decisions? sort it out for yourself?...oh and BTW any chance of any of the £000000's contributed to your house deposits, cars etc etc etc back?

FWIW I have many many many life experiences as well as a degree and my life won't be affected by IN or OUT very much.but I voted OUT with the true belief it is the right thing for my Kids and grandkids.....

Altruism is a very rare commodity nowadays but some of us still have a least a modicum of it left....some societies value their elders, unfortunately it appears this country now seems to resent them - such a shame.

eta

Forgot to mention....I done equity release on the house, cashed in the pensions, bought a bought and off sailing around the world for a few years before you bang me up in a home coz I got no money left biglaugh

Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 26th June 11:04

mygoldfishbowl

3,691 posts

142 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
AndrewCrown said:
Now all the referendum data is being collated it appears the older voter was more inclined towards exit.

There is significant vitriol flying about how the more aged voter won't have to live with the decision and how they may have shafted the future for the young.

I look at this through a different lens... Anyone over 45 has seen enough 'cycles' of global change to form a view' Cognisant of 1000s of world changing events and seen politicians come and go.... We learn, become wiser and now wince at some of the silly things we did in our youth...

So are the older exit voters actually giving the young an opportunity here?
I look at it like this... Young people know st but they think they know everything.

mitzy

13,857 posts

196 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
My simple view

One Person, one vote. Im glad we are in democracy something a lot of folk on social media seem to have forgot. Accept the result, calm down and move forward.
If the yooth or anyone else are too lazy to get out of bed to vote -their loss

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
mygoldfishbowl said:
I look at it like this... Young people know st but they think they know everything.
To be fair I was the same when I was young..but was always very respectful of my elders and still am to this day.....have a look and see how many youngsters stand up for an old lady or young with a baby / pram for that matter.



Edited by alfie2244 on Sunday 26th June 11:28