Petrol Station Argument - Sitting on the Bike?
Discussion
Evening all,
So today I decided to take advantage of the (slightly) quieter roads around here due to England playing Iceland, though let's not talk about the result...
Went to my local Tesco to fill up the bike where I've filled up for years, did my usual procedure of paying at the pump, sat on the bike as a) I can't be bothered to get off and b) get a little extra fuel in the tank. I'd inserted my card, entered the pin and machine was telling me to get on with it so I stuck the nozzle into the tank when a girl working at the station walks over to me and tells me to get off the bike as I can't fill up whilst sitting down. Not heard this one before, had the old 'must remove helmet' rule which I get rather irate about but this just seemed ridiculous - I'd pre-authorised my bloody card!
So anyway a small argument ensued where I was telling her my card was pre-authorised therefore there was no way I could drive off as I've already effectively paid... She then tells me it's new government legislation which sounded like a load of b
ks to me. Anyway, long story short I told her to go get her manager and he came and explained that it was new policy due to the number of people slipping on fuel and falling over whilst fuelling up sat on the bike, or having fuel splash into their face. He showed me a piece of paper and explained it was something from the government, didn't really read it as wanted to get on with my ride so I just said well that's absolutely ridiculous but fine and got on with my ride.
So, two things. Has anyone else experienced this as of late or in times gone by, and can anyone possibly point me to this apparent 'legislation' that protects us from our clumsy selves? Would be most interested.
Cheers!
Dan
So today I decided to take advantage of the (slightly) quieter roads around here due to England playing Iceland, though let's not talk about the result...
Went to my local Tesco to fill up the bike where I've filled up for years, did my usual procedure of paying at the pump, sat on the bike as a) I can't be bothered to get off and b) get a little extra fuel in the tank. I'd inserted my card, entered the pin and machine was telling me to get on with it so I stuck the nozzle into the tank when a girl working at the station walks over to me and tells me to get off the bike as I can't fill up whilst sitting down. Not heard this one before, had the old 'must remove helmet' rule which I get rather irate about but this just seemed ridiculous - I'd pre-authorised my bloody card!
So anyway a small argument ensued where I was telling her my card was pre-authorised therefore there was no way I could drive off as I've already effectively paid... She then tells me it's new government legislation which sounded like a load of b
ks to me. Anyway, long story short I told her to go get her manager and he came and explained that it was new policy due to the number of people slipping on fuel and falling over whilst fuelling up sat on the bike, or having fuel splash into their face. He showed me a piece of paper and explained it was something from the government, didn't really read it as wanted to get on with my ride so I just said well that's absolutely ridiculous but fine and got on with my ride.So, two things. Has anyone else experienced this as of late or in times gone by, and can anyone possibly point me to this apparent 'legislation' that protects us from our clumsy selves? Would be most interested.
Cheers!
Dan
I'm in the business. It's not legislative, but something recommended by fire officers / petroleum officers and is generally an adopted policy by petrol retailers.
It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
Trabi601 said:
I'm in the business. It's not legislative, but something recommended by fire officers / petroleum officers and is generally an adopted policy by petrol retailers.
It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
exactly, but of course it's Brussels health and safty gone maid innit ' therefore the powerfully built and begoatteed will not accept it - especially as they've never set themselves on fire ... It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
I understand that you dont want to be lectured by the staff, but i think this time they are giving good advice.
Its the vapour that burns, not the petrol itself so keeping some distance, able to leg it asap has got to be in your best interest. Also you get to stretch your legs and back as well!
Its the vapour that burns, not the petrol itself so keeping some distance, able to leg it asap has got to be in your best interest. Also you get to stretch your legs and back as well!
Trabi601 said:
...There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
That's two more than I've heard of mobile phones causing accidents at the pump and you haven't been able to use those for ages !A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
Seriously though, I saw something at the petrol station recently saying you can't straddle the bike which I thought strange, but had ignored. Not only can I not get as much fuel in with the bike on the side stand (I don't have a centre stand), but the lighting at my usual forecourt means I can't easily see where the fuel level is if it's on the side stand.
I pull up get off, prop bike up on centre stand so its level the same as if I was sat on it then brim if i'm doing a long journey.
Or if just riding round town I fill only to a certain point because the fuel sensor float bangs against the inside of the tank, but that's a totally different subject
Or if just riding round town I fill only to a certain point because the fuel sensor float bangs against the inside of the tank, but that's a totally different subject
However, the risk itself does seem marginal, but why waste time arguing - just relocate or cooperate? So it's mandatory because at some point in time, in some place on the other side of the world, a small number of people operating a completely different type of pump, in a largely unregulated country, were very unlucky. So now we have guidance which people pretend is legislation because they don't understand the difference and think it coerce you.
Makes perfect sense.
I always get off the bike, I no longer see the advantage. But if it did bother me, given the huge amount of petrol stations, I'd probably just avoid that outlet in future.
Makes perfect sense.
I always get off the bike, I no longer see the advantage. But if it did bother me, given the huge amount of petrol stations, I'd probably just avoid that outlet in future.
ec1 eex said:
That's two more than I've heard of mobile phones causing accidents at the pump and you haven't been able to use those for ages !
Isn't the mobile phone thing more to do with the concern it could interfere with the electronics in the pump and give a incorrect reading?I always fill up sat on the bike and wearing my helmet, been asked to take my helmet off once in 20 years, but not been asked to get off the bike yet.
Trabi601 said:
I'm in the business. It's not legislative, but something recommended by fire officers / petroleum officers and is generally an adopted policy by petrol retailers.
It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
I was about to have a bloody good rant but that explanation makes sense when you think about it... That said, I usually sit on the bike with the side stand down because I'm lazy!It's dangerous - the consequence of something going wrong is very high and the risk is moderate - on a live forecourt this isn't an acceptable balance / risk assessment.
Slipping whilst refuelling, then ending up pinned under a bike with fuel pouring out onto you isn't a good thing - especially as you then put a member of staff / public at risk assisting you in picking up the bike. It's quiet easy to break bones if you get pinned between the pump island and a fallen bike.
The other risk is that of fire - whilst rare, it's not unknown for a spillage whilst 'straddling' to cause fatalities. There was one a few years ago in India, where a young child riding pillion was burned to death when her father had a spillage whilst straddling a hot bike.
A couple of years ago, a BP station in Northern Ireland had a forecourt fire which burned out an entire island and a motorbike due to a spilling whilst filling on the bike - it even melted the canopy sheeting.
As a biker myself, the additional fuel you get in is so marginal, I don't understand why it's seen as a big issue. Certainly not worth the risk of a fall or fire to squeeze in a few extra drops.
RizzoTheRat said:
Isn't the mobile phone thing more to do with the concern it could interfere with the electronics in the pump and give a incorrect reading?
Not an engineer but would be fairly certain that's not possible. They're actually fairly weak at signaling these days as they don't need to transmit very far to get to the next mast. That's why the 1980s ones (with such limited infrastructure) required huge batteries to transmit over much larger distances. Besides, I can use my car phone in the petrol station. I'd speculate it's basically a relic from when phones were potentially a hazard, and the petroleum industry is very risk averse so won't withdraw it.
It still benefits, as some
won't be faffing around on his mobile when you're waiting for the pump.Prof Prolapse said:
So it's mandatory because at some point in time, in some place on the other side of the world, a small number of people operating a completely different type of pump, in a largely unregulated country, were very unlucky. So now we have guidance which people pretend is legislation because they don't understand the difference and think it coerce you.
Makes perfect sense.
I always get off the bike, I no longer see the advantage. But if it did bother me, given the huge amount of petrol stations, I'd probably just avoid that outlet in future.
They pretend it's legislation to avoid the abuse they get from customers who think they know better when filling up from a pump that's located directly above 100k litres of flammable liquid.Makes perfect sense.
I always get off the bike, I no longer see the advantage. But if it did bother me, given the huge amount of petrol stations, I'd probably just avoid that outlet in future.
You may fancy your chances - but for the safety of the employees, other customers and local residents, please comply.
(In case you missed it - it isn't just the other side of the planet - it happened in NI, too - the type of pump is a moot point, as an overfill or clumsy spillage isn't equipment dependant - it's user error)
It's only relatively rare in the UK / Europe as most fills are done off the bike.
Prof Prolapse said:
Not an engineer but would be fairly certain that's not possible. They're actually fairly weak at signaling these days as they don't need to transmit very far to get to the next mast. That's why the 1980s ones (with such limited infrastructure) required huge batteries to transmit over much larger distances. Besides, I can use my car phone in the petrol station.
I'd speculate it's basically a relic from when phones were potentially a hazard, and the petroleum industry is very risk averse so won't withdraw it.
It still benefits, as some won't be faffing around on his mobile when you're waiting for the pump.
It's mostly because people using phones aren't concentrating on dispensing, other vehicles around them and cannot hear the tannoy.I'd speculate it's basically a relic from when phones were potentially a hazard, and the petroleum industry is very risk averse so won't withdraw it.
It still benefits, as some
won't be faffing around on his mobile when you're waiting for the pump.This means they overfill, get themselves run over by wandering in front of cars, or can't hear the cashier telling them their vehicle is on fire.
The safety factor here is so obvious it worries me what sort of person is disputing it:
Yes I have sat astride the bike before at pay at the pump but like me, how many others put the stand down too just in case? If you were that happy, you wouldn't have a 'just in case'.
You're at a place where's there's the greatest chance of spilt diesel, probably reaching to the card part of the pump & then reaching for the hose too as well as getting card in & out of wallet messing around with jacket zips, adding a fair few KGs to the top of a machine which is very hot.
Sorry - no-brainer for me, what ever-size bike I'm fuelling.
I'd imagine spilt petrol would sting your bits too.
Final point, mate filled up astride his bike before, got off to pay without putting sidestand down, how we laughed!!
Yes I have sat astride the bike before at pay at the pump but like me, how many others put the stand down too just in case? If you were that happy, you wouldn't have a 'just in case'.
You're at a place where's there's the greatest chance of spilt diesel, probably reaching to the card part of the pump & then reaching for the hose too as well as getting card in & out of wallet messing around with jacket zips, adding a fair few KGs to the top of a machine which is very hot.
Sorry - no-brainer for me, what ever-size bike I'm fuelling.
I'd imagine spilt petrol would sting your bits too.
Final point, mate filled up astride his bike before, got off to pay without putting sidestand down, how we laughed!!
boxxob said:
Sitting on the bike may actually be safer, since you can escape away from the pump in 180 degrees of direction away from the pump station. Standing and filling the bike whilst on its side stand, you are effectively corralled between the bike, the pump housing and the dangling hose, and the only clear exit is in the direction of the rear of the bike.
Sorry, but that's rubbish!Why do motorcyclists always try to circumvent health and safety policy? It's there for a reason, please just respect it.
Mad Jock said:
Wow, his bks were actually on fire. graham22 said:
Yes I have sat astride the bike before at pay at the pump but like me, how many others put the stand down too just in case? If you were that happy, you wouldn't have a 'just in case'.
<snip>
Final point, mate filled up astride his bike before, got off to pay without putting sidestand down, how we laughed!!
That's the just in case which is I why I put my stand down <snip>
Final point, mate filled up astride his bike before, got off to pay without putting sidestand down, how we laughed!!
I do agree however that it is probably safer to get off the bike to fill it, but that immediately runs in to a risk/probability/etc issue. 3 or 4 incidents mentioned here where people died, but how many people died in bike crashes? If we were that worried about safety we'd all be driving Volvos instead of riding bikes.
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