Learning a new language
Discussion
Italian with Michel Thomas. If you are so inclined, the audiobooks can usually be found online for free to download, but they are available to buy legitimately!
The 'Michel Thomas method' really worked for me, as an inexpensive way to learn, it has you speaking in the new language straight away and requires no homework or real effort. Can't say it'll make you fluent without lots of conversation with natives, but it's good.
The 'Michel Thomas method' really worked for me, as an inexpensive way to learn, it has you speaking in the new language straight away and requires no homework or real effort. Can't say it'll make you fluent without lots of conversation with natives, but it's good.
I do one hour long German lesson per week through work and I use an app called Duolingo. I've been doing the lessons for 1 or 2 years and using the app on and off for around 6 months. The app is good but I still can't speak German, I think the only real way to learn a language is to be forced to speak it, i.e move there
DuoLingo is excellent for quickly getting you into useful content. It also turns it into something of a game which gives it longevity.
Memrise is just incredible for spaced repetition learning of vocabulary.
Forvo.com is useful for checking your pronunciation.
Wordreference.com (they have an app) is indispensable for me, and especially useful for resolving any issues you'll inevitably have with synonyms.
Although I learn Spanish, those four deal with all sorts of languages. I'd also recommend finding yourself an Italian newspaper and use the ReadLang plugin for Google Chrome which allows selective instant translation. Finally, there are lots of apps for verb conjugation - get one of those that allows you to practise again and again.
Oh, and don't discount the value of a good book! The dead tree kind! Finally, once you get to a certain level (and assuming you're not living in country) I'd say you'll see the biggest benefit from getting a one-to-one tutor.
Memrise is just incredible for spaced repetition learning of vocabulary.
Forvo.com is useful for checking your pronunciation.
Wordreference.com (they have an app) is indispensable for me, and especially useful for resolving any issues you'll inevitably have with synonyms.
Although I learn Spanish, those four deal with all sorts of languages. I'd also recommend finding yourself an Italian newspaper and use the ReadLang plugin for Google Chrome which allows selective instant translation. Finally, there are lots of apps for verb conjugation - get one of those that allows you to practise again and again.
Oh, and don't discount the value of a good book! The dead tree kind! Finally, once you get to a certain level (and assuming you're not living in country) I'd say you'll see the biggest benefit from getting a one-to-one tutor.
I am learning Italian at the moment as we go every year to my father's house. We have no Italian heritage, just love the country and specifically the area.
I am learning with an App called DuoLingo which is fine. I am now 8% fluent as of this morning. Anyhow, there are some flaws in the way it teaches you and not sure it is all relevant (I can say my red shark has small boots and other such insightful comments) but it is getting there.
It is missing the verb conjugations from when I used to learn at school and I need to think each time. So I am supplementing it with learning a verb and then conjugating it by rote (I walk, you walk, he walks, we walk etc). I just get them from Google.
Would I recommend it? Yes as I think it was free and is not too bad at all.
(btw if anyone needs it, it is 'il mio squalo rosso ha stivali piccolo'
, I think... )
edited to add: DuoLingo seems to be getting some good press here....
I am learning with an App called DuoLingo which is fine. I am now 8% fluent as of this morning. Anyhow, there are some flaws in the way it teaches you and not sure it is all relevant (I can say my red shark has small boots and other such insightful comments) but it is getting there.
It is missing the verb conjugations from when I used to learn at school and I need to think each time. So I am supplementing it with learning a verb and then conjugating it by rote (I walk, you walk, he walks, we walk etc). I just get them from Google.
Would I recommend it? Yes as I think it was free and is not too bad at all.
(btw if anyone needs it, it is 'il mio squalo rosso ha stivali piccolo'
, I think... )edited to add: DuoLingo seems to be getting some good press here....
Mr. Nice Guy said:
I do one hour long German lesson per week through work and I use an app called Duolingo. I've been doing the lessons for 1 or 2 years and using the app on and off for around 6 months. The app is good but I still can't speak German, I think the only real way to learn a language is to be forced to speak it, i.e move there
That's true. I learnt French for years, but spending a teenage summer holiday in France with a family that didn't speak english improved my fluency massively. You know you are getting there when you don't have to "translate" a question in your head, but just answer it.Unfortunately haven't had the need to speak french for years and have forgotten most of it now.
iphonedyou said:
DuoLingo is excellent for quickly getting you into useful content. It also turns it into something of a game which gives it longevity.
After a few months attempting to learn some Dutch with Duolingo I could manage things like the The Man Has No Trousers, but hadn't got as far as more traditionally useful stuff like numbers. Still worth doing however as it's free, comes as short easy lessons, and as mentioned the "game" aspect of it works well.Started doing a bit of German with the Michel Thomas CD's and I think they're pretty good.
boyse7en said:
That's true. I learnt French for years, but spending a teenage summer holiday in France with a family that didn't speak english improved my fluency massively. You know you are getting there when you don't have to "translate" a question in your head, but just answer it.
Unfortunately haven't had the need to speak french for years and have forgotten most of it now.
It's annoying. After a year of ~1hr study 3x a week, vocab revision 15x a week (8-10 min sessions) and 2 - 3 1 hour tutor sessions a month, I've taken a six week break whilst moving country, house and job. Feel like I've lost so much of it!Unfortunately haven't had the need to speak french for years and have forgotten most of it now.
Duolingo is useful enough and free.
"TEach yourslef" book and audio CD intensively for a couple of weeks will do wonders when combined with a GCSE grammar textbook.
After that, immersion. Some native speakers living in the UK offer one:1 sessions for an hour a week in evenings. Check out your local small ads.
"TEach yourslef" book and audio CD intensively for a couple of weeks will do wonders when combined with a GCSE grammar textbook.
After that, immersion. Some native speakers living in the UK offer one:1 sessions for an hour a week in evenings. Check out your local small ads.
I've thought about this - did French, German and Latin at school.
But then I ask myself, 'what am I going to do with it?'. Unless you use it, isn't it like learning a musical instrument but never playing in a band or just doing a crossword? ('Mental masturbation' as a former colleague would say).
But then I ask myself, 'what am I going to do with it?'. Unless you use it, isn't it like learning a musical instrument but never playing in a band or just doing a crossword? ('Mental masturbation' as a former colleague would say).
Sticks. said:
I've thought about this - did French, German and Latin at school.
But then I ask myself, 'what am I going to do with it?'. Unless you use it, isn't it like learning a musical instrument but never playing in a band or just doing a crossword? ('Mental masturbation' as a former colleague would say).
I suppose you're right. But then, how could you not use it? By virtue of simply learning it, you'll be using the language, whilst hopefully finding the process itself rewarding.But then I ask myself, 'what am I going to do with it?'. Unless you use it, isn't it like learning a musical instrument but never playing in a band or just doing a crossword? ('Mental masturbation' as a former colleague would say).
It also gives a wonderful insight into different cultures, different points of view. I still remember the time I learnt that 'sunny spells' doesn't truly exist in Spanish as a weather term. They use 'cloudy spells', thus coming at it from the opposite side. Or the fact they have three different ways to talk about 'becoming' depending on how difficult / lengthy / involved the process itself was.
It also gives a great insight into your own language, in a compare-and-contrast sort of way. Learning the grammar technicalities is something a lot of us did with English subconsciously, to a degree, or at least without really remembering the process.
I suppose it's little things.
Re the move there and learn it idea.
I took my school French to Italy and was speaking passable Italian in 8 ish months.
Now live in Germany where it took a couple of years to really get to grips with it.
Going back to the Italian, don't worry too much about the grammar, most Italians don't seem to.
I took my school French to Italy and was speaking passable Italian in 8 ish months.
Now live in Germany where it took a couple of years to really get to grips with it.
Going back to the Italian, don't worry too much about the grammar, most Italians don't seem to.
iphonedyou said:
I suppose you're right. But then, how could you not use it? By virtue of simply learning it, you'll be using the language, whilst hopefully finding the process itself rewarding.
It also gives a wonderful insight into different cultures, different points of view. I still remember the time I learnt that 'sunny spells' doesn't truly exist in Spanish as a weather term. They use 'cloudy spells', thus coming at it from the opposite side. Or the fact they have three different ways to talk about 'becoming' depending on how difficult / lengthy / involved the process itself was.
It also gives a great insight into your own language, in a compare-and-contrast sort of way. Learning the grammar technicalities is something a lot of us did with English subconsciously, to a degree, or at least without really remembering the process.
I suppose it's little things.
Totally agree. I think I picked up more grammar in languages other than English. And yes, it can be enjoyable in itself.It also gives a wonderful insight into different cultures, different points of view. I still remember the time I learnt that 'sunny spells' doesn't truly exist in Spanish as a weather term. They use 'cloudy spells', thus coming at it from the opposite side. Or the fact they have three different ways to talk about 'becoming' depending on how difficult / lengthy / involved the process itself was.
It also gives a great insight into your own language, in a compare-and-contrast sort of way. Learning the grammar technicalities is something a lot of us did with English subconsciously, to a degree, or at least without really remembering the process.
I suppose it's little things.
For me though, I'd have to have an end goal.
I would recommend doing a language exchange where you meet someone and talk in their language for 45 mins and then swap over to English. This is in addition to the learning by audio. Living in the country is clearly great for picking up how people speak, but you do need to know how to react to people and make small talk and what in Spanish we called an "intercambio" really picked up my skills
sc0tt said:
How long does it take to learn a language generally?
Rule of thumb:Reasonable proficiency: 100 hours
Proficiency: 1000 hours
Expert proficiency: 10,000 hours.
In this case it is like any complex task.
In my case I learned French at school and put the time in after school for night classes, holidays, etc. That got me to probably about 500 hours worth. Maybe even 1000, I was mostly OK. I got a temp job in France and was *mostly* proficient.
I then got a full time job in France, within my department and in the factory the job had to be done wholly in French. The first month was hell. I was constantly exhausted and did wonder if I'd made a terrible mistake. There's a world of difference between using language in basic conversation and running a department. However after this some order emerged, and after 3 months I was very proficient. After 6 I was flying.
You should bear in mind that your waking hours in a week are (give or take) 120 hours, say you are actually listening to people talking or talking yourself for 100 hours a week. That's 400 hours a month. 1200 hours after 3 months. After this length of time as I say I was very proficient.
10,000 hours is about 2 years of living in the country and crucially using the language all day every day. Maybe it didn't take me exactly that long to become expert, however by this point I clearly was. I was dreaming in French more often than in English and rather worryingly forgetting how to spell certain English words.
When I go back to France it takes me an hour or two to tune in to the language and to be able to tackle it at normal conversational speed.
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