Dealing with a complete tit
Discussion
NinjaPower said:
???
I'm pretty sure you can pay a fee online and instantly download a copy of your lease from Land Registry?
Thanks. Unfortunately not. The Land Registry will only accept payment by cheque, there's no mechanism to accommodate online or bank transfer payment.I'm pretty sure you can pay a fee online and instantly download a copy of your lease from Land Registry?
As it happened, my call paid dividends. Giving the information to the solicitor's clerk let her track down the lease I'd signed seven years ago. I sent £3 by BACS transfer and a copy lease should be with me tomorrow.
NinjaPower said:
+1
I managed leasehold properties for 7 years, and despite me being a very straightforward, honest, and reasonable manager, the residents behaved like utter bellends towards me most of the time, despite them being legally in the wrong about 99% of the time.
Apparently I was stealing from them, overcharging them, breaking the law, breaking the contract, lying to them, making them ill, being dishonest, fabricating false documents... You name it, apparently I did it to them.
Out of the 480-ish properties I managed, only a handful of residents actually knew what was in their lease. The rest just made it all up in their heads.
Once you had argued with them for over an hour about the legality of charging them for something, and proved them to be wrong by clearly reading the appropriate clause of the lease to them, they would go off in one about how 'no one told them it would be like this' when they bought their property... Apparently that was my fault as well... Not their solicitor who is paid to point all these things out to them during the purchase...
One of my best days at work ever was when a group of about 25 leaseholders from a block took me to a Leasehold Tribunal because I was trying to charge them about £3000 each for replacement of their flat Windows, external doors and repairs to the roofs and gutterings all over the block. When all came to all the Tribubal basically told them all that they were idiots who should read their leases properly, and that yes, they had to pay for the works
it was a glorious moment as they had spent the previous couple of months eagerly telling me that they couldn't wait to have justice served on the big bad management company who was trying to steal £3000 from them.
If I ever got someone phoning up the office and saying that they were interested in buying a flat, I would make it very clear to them that whatever happened, they would have to pay for absolutely everything and the freeholder pays for nothing... But as sure as s
t, they would be at a residents meeting a year later expressing absolute shock and horror that we were asking them to pay maintenance costs for something.
Never again.
I'm still a damn fool doing exactly this job and every single bit you said I've had in spades over the past 13 years!! I must be the worst kind of human being for the things I do to leaseholders eh?I managed leasehold properties for 7 years, and despite me being a very straightforward, honest, and reasonable manager, the residents behaved like utter bellends towards me most of the time, despite them being legally in the wrong about 99% of the time.
Apparently I was stealing from them, overcharging them, breaking the law, breaking the contract, lying to them, making them ill, being dishonest, fabricating false documents... You name it, apparently I did it to them.
Out of the 480-ish properties I managed, only a handful of residents actually knew what was in their lease. The rest just made it all up in their heads.
Once you had argued with them for over an hour about the legality of charging them for something, and proved them to be wrong by clearly reading the appropriate clause of the lease to them, they would go off in one about how 'no one told them it would be like this' when they bought their property... Apparently that was my fault as well... Not their solicitor who is paid to point all these things out to them during the purchase...
One of my best days at work ever was when a group of about 25 leaseholders from a block took me to a Leasehold Tribunal because I was trying to charge them about £3000 each for replacement of their flat Windows, external doors and repairs to the roofs and gutterings all over the block. When all came to all the Tribubal basically told them all that they were idiots who should read their leases properly, and that yes, they had to pay for the works
it was a glorious moment as they had spent the previous couple of months eagerly telling me that they couldn't wait to have justice served on the big bad management company who was trying to steal £3000 from them.If I ever got someone phoning up the office and saying that they were interested in buying a flat, I would make it very clear to them that whatever happened, they would have to pay for absolutely everything and the freeholder pays for nothing... But as sure as s
t, they would be at a residents meeting a year later expressing absolute shock and horror that we were asking them to pay maintenance costs for something.Never again.
Edited by NinjaPower on Wednesday 29th June 23:37
I would never EVER EVER buy anything leasehold except for a flat in the block my dad is the Freeholder & MA. Even then if it changed hands I'd probably ditch the flat.
I would also beat every solicitor to death with a copy of the lease they failed to explain to their client (you). The number of times I hear "my solicitor didn't explain that to me" or "I didnt read the lease"... whhhyyyyy??? Its a legal document binding you to covenants and (more importantly) what the Freeholder is covenanted to do ffs!
"I own this flat!" .... /inwardly screams
Anyhow... OP.. with regards to the charges it sounds like they followed Section 20 and he's right that if after Stage 2 "Statement of Estimates" was issued and they went with the lowest priced tender then there's no requirement for Stage 3. He's an arse for taking your space and not offering an alternative though. I've just kicked off major works ex decs & the scaffolding will restrict if not block access to someone's garage but we have liaised fully with them and they're aware they might have to use the parking bays for 3 months.
With regards to the lease you have to check what you're allowed to use it for and what permissions you actually need. Oh and some leases dont allow for a collection of a sinking fund so they have to hit you with big bills. I had this for a Grade 2 listed building on Brighton sea front but the leaseholders were a savvy bunch and just put aside an amount that would normally be budgeted & collected and so were fully able to pay any large bills coming their way (there were LOTS).
I wish you luck but you really have to be on it and fully aware of what is going on around you at the building not just what happens inside your flat and within that parking space
PinkRinse said:
"I own this flat!" .... /inwardly screams
Ha ha! A true classic right there... Almost brings a tear to my eye looking back on the years I managed leasehold! 
I used to have to brace myself for the absolute incandescent rage that would always flow from a leaseholder when I explained to them that no, they don't actually own their flat. They have in fact bought a piece of paper that states they can legally reside there for a certain number of years. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.
Other classics included:
I shouldn't have to pay for the roof to be repaired because I'm on the ground floor and have no roof.
I shouldn't have to pay for the lift to be repaired because I'm on the ground floor and don't use the lift.
I shouldn't have to pay for the roof or guttering to be repaired because the builders should be made to come back and fix it because it's a bad design, and should last more than 20 years.
I'm refusing to pay for the gardeners because they don't do a good enough job when they come.
The owner of the building should it for all the repairs, why should I pay for it?
My solicitor didn't tell me any of this.
I'm refusing to pay my sinking fund contribution upon the sale of my flat because I read a newspaper article about unfair leasehold charges when you sell a flat.
It was literally torture every day for 7 years... And those twice yearly residents meetings for Audited Accounts and Estimated accounts... Jesus H Christ, somebody shoot me.
It's kind of a waste really because I have a degree in property management, am well qualified and experienced in leasehold/property management, have almost every Chartered Institute of Housing qualification for leasehold management, and I've pretty much seen and done it all, yet I just walked right out of it.
There is a real shortage out there of people who are experienced and qualified in the management of leasehold, but I'm not sure there is a figure you could pay me to go back to it.
Now I repair cars for a living
Well, here's an update.
I finally got hold of a copy of the lease, via the conveyancing solicitor - it cost me £3. The premises I bought, including the garden, the barbecue area and the parking spot are all demised to me and clearly marked on the plan.
The lease also refers to a right of way (including the parking space, including vehicles where appropriate). It also refers (as regards during works) to 'abating nuisance'.
I've written to the solicitor, the gist being 'shift it now' and offer me something for the time and trouble occasioned and the deleterious effect on my business (which is allowed anyway).
I finally got hold of a copy of the lease, via the conveyancing solicitor - it cost me £3. The premises I bought, including the garden, the barbecue area and the parking spot are all demised to me and clearly marked on the plan.
The lease also refers to a right of way (including the parking space, including vehicles where appropriate). It also refers (as regards during works) to 'abating nuisance'.
I've written to the solicitor, the gist being 'shift it now' and offer me something for the time and trouble occasioned and the deleterious effect on my business (which is allowed anyway).
Edited by davhill on Friday 8th July 02:22
elanfan said:
And once you get it sorted are you going to try to get him sacked - he deserves it?
He's been advised (with relevant quotes) that he's clearly acted in breach of the terms of the lease. I sent the e-mail days ago and CC'd the solicitor. Guess what...no reply and the trailer thing's still there.
davhill said:
elanfan said:
And once you get it sorted are you going to try to get him sacked - he deserves it?
He's been advised (with relevant quotes) that he's clearly acted in breach of the terms of the lease. I sent the e-mail days ago and CC'd the solicitor. Guess what...no reply and the trailer thing's still there.
surveyor said:
It's not the right attitude, but what are you going to do about it? Your options are really quite limited....
There's essentially foxtrot alpha I can do about it. I've told the bloke that he'll hear from my sol/r if the thing isn't shifted pronto but that's it.What about one of those locking butt plug things that stop folk nicking trailers? Snag is, one would stop the thing being moved. Just in the mood to add hassle for him.
davhill said:
surveyor said:
It's not the right attitude, but what are you going to do about it? Your options are really quite limited....
There's essentially foxtrot alpha I can do about it. I've told the bloke that he'll hear from my sol/r if the thing isn't shifted pronto but that's it.What about one of those locking butt plug things that stop folk nicking trailers? Snag is, one would stop the thing being moved. Just in the mood to add hassle for him.
All sounds like a storm in a teacup to me. Let them get on with it there doesn't sound like a huge amount of work so they should be finished soon, the financial side is cut and dried and it's a shame you missed the leaseholders meeting as everything would have been explained. You must bear in mind this building work is necessary to maintain the property and your interest in it.
As earlier posts I have experienced many irate leaseholders who also just don't seem to get it. It's just as bad when it's found the annual maintenance fund payments are way below what they should be and LH's don't like increasing to meet anticipated future expenditure or in fact build up the fund at all. They love paying fk all until it's found that there's only £25 in the pot to pay for a new roof.
IMHO anyone buying a flat should understand exactly how much is in the fund and what future maintenance expenditure is necessary. Anyone buying a cheap flat in a converted house with no fund and in poor external condition needs sectioning.
As earlier posts I have experienced many irate leaseholders who also just don't seem to get it. It's just as bad when it's found the annual maintenance fund payments are way below what they should be and LH's don't like increasing to meet anticipated future expenditure or in fact build up the fund at all. They love paying f
k all until it's found that there's only £25 in the pot to pay for a new roof.IMHO anyone buying a flat should understand exactly how much is in the fund and what future maintenance expenditure is necessary. Anyone buying a cheap flat in a converted house with no fund and in poor external condition needs sectioning.
V6Pushfit said:
All sounds like a storm in a teacup to me. Let them get on with it there doesn't sound like a huge amount of work so they should be finished soon, the financial side is cut and dried and it's a shame you missed the leaseholders meeting as everything would have been explained. You must bear in mind this building work is necessary to maintain the property and your interest in it.
As earlier posts I have experienced many irate leaseholders who also just don't seem to get it. It's just as bad when it's found the annual maintenance fund payments are way below what they should be and LH's don't like increasing to meet anticipated future expenditure or in fact build up the fund at all. They love paying fk all until it's found that there's only £25 in the pot to pay for a new roof.
IMHO anyone buying a flat should understand exactly how much is in the fund and what future maintenance expenditure is necessary. Anyone buying a cheap flat in a converted house with no fund and in poor external condition needs sectioning.
No doubt you'd think differently if your premises/business were affected. Would you be happy? I doubt it.As earlier posts I have experienced many irate leaseholders who also just don't seem to get it. It's just as bad when it's found the annual maintenance fund payments are way below what they should be and LH's don't like increasing to meet anticipated future expenditure or in fact build up the fund at all. They love paying f
k all until it's found that there's only £25 in the pot to pay for a new roof.IMHO anyone buying a flat should understand exactly how much is in the fund and what future maintenance expenditure is necessary. Anyone buying a cheap flat in a converted house with no fund and in poor external condition needs sectioning.
AFAIK, the works go on until 7th Oct at best...it's no small task. The other day, there were only three of the parking spots available...all the undercover ones are closed off and five of the visitor spots were full of skips, a tool cabinet thingy and plant. Remember there are 20 flats.
Lastly, please credit me with the intelligence to know an 1875 building will need work.
I would ask the site agent nicely to move it onto the grass right next to it. Job done.
In the meantime you've got leases at £3 and CAB, solicitors and uncle tom cobbley all pissed off with a trivial issue you should have resolved yourself, plus of course 5 pages on here.
Go out there and ask them to move it
In the meantime you've got leases at £3 and CAB, solicitors and uncle tom cobbley all pissed off with a trivial issue you should have resolved yourself, plus of course 5 pages on here.
Go out there and ask them to move it
V6Pushfit said:
I would ask the site agent nicely to move it onto the grass right next to it. Job done.
In the meantime you've got leases at £3 and CAB, solicitors and uncle tom cobbley all pissed off with a trivial issue you should have resolved yourself, plus of course 5 pages on here.
Go out there and ask them to move it
The ones that are pissed off are the residents...I've offered the use of the tree by the parking spot for the lynching.In the meantime you've got leases at £3 and CAB, solicitors and uncle tom cobbley all pissed off with a trivial issue you should have resolved yourself, plus of course 5 pages on here.
Go out there and ask them to move it
FYI, I put the move it onto the grass idea forward weeks ago...someone on here had suggested it. No dice, not even a reply. Pigs 'n' grunts.
FYI 2, it was the ex-to-be (joint owner) who approached the CAB, not me. I called the Land Registry and the conveyancing solicitor. I have one lease at £3, courtesy of the sol's receptionist...no other charges imposed...I even got advice from the sol in two calls.
FYI 3 If it's made 5 pages it must be worth it...the mods are watching.
And a bit of advice about the 'C' word. Criticise by all means, just think 'constructive' first.
NinjaPower said:
I'm refusing to pay for the gardeners because they don't do a good enough job when they come.
I'm sure you're right on all your points Ninja and it must be a Sisyphean task but sometimes...you know.On a BTL I have the gardeners were completely useless. We would just go around and do it ourselves as they would leave it till it was waist height. They were replaced by the management eventually after years of complaints. Leaseholders do sometimes have a point!
davhill said:
The ones that are pissed off are the residents...I've offered the use of the tree by the parking spot for the lynching.
FYI, I put the move it onto the grass idea forward weeks ago...someone on here had suggested it. No dice, not even a reply. Pigs 'n' grunts.
FYI 2, it was the ex-to-be (joint owner) who approached the CAB, not me. I called the Land Registry and the conveyancing solicitor. I have one lease at £3, courtesy of the sol's receptionist...no other charges imposed...I even got advice from the sol in two calls.
FYI 3 If it's made 5 pages it must be worth it...the mods are watching.
The FYI 1 needed to be done firmly and with a call to the managing agent. As I said job done. There's no need to have done anything else let alone all this. It really is simple.FYI, I put the move it onto the grass idea forward weeks ago...someone on here had suggested it. No dice, not even a reply. Pigs 'n' grunts.
FYI 2, it was the ex-to-be (joint owner) who approached the CAB, not me. I called the Land Registry and the conveyancing solicitor. I have one lease at £3, courtesy of the sol's receptionist...no other charges imposed...I even got advice from the sol in two calls.
FYI 3 If it's made 5 pages it must be worth it...the mods are watching.
Your space was (presumably) incorrectly used for site welfare. It gets vacated. You put your car there. Two people are involved, one being you. The space has your number on it.
As I said it's now land registry, CAB, solicitors, managing agent etc etc talk about a mountain out of a molehill.
Off topic, so apologies to the OP, but there seem to be some knowledgeable people posting re. leaseholds.
Currently looking at a flat where you end up owning a share of the lease management company, how much of a difference does this actually make?
And I will be asking the EA many questions when I go to view!
TIA.
Currently looking at a flat where you end up owning a share of the lease management company, how much of a difference does this actually make?
And I will be asking the EA many questions when I go to view!
TIA.
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