Any Mountain Rescue Team members here?
Discussion
Awesome posts. Appreciated.
We were camping in the Brecons last week and went up pen-y-fan one day. Nice weather at the bottom but really windy and cloudy at the top.
You think there's only one way up and one way down, but once at the top and you turn around a few times it's not hard to lose your bearings. We actually started back down 90° off, only checking map sheet and compass after 50 yards or so when the "path" appeared to drop vertically before us.
On the route back down in the driving rain and cloud, we were passed by so many people in t shirts and trainers, with no bags or coats or anything.
Glad to know the MRT's are there for emergencies, but I'm sure a lot of people see them as being there to sort out their own mess ups or lack of prep. More glad knowing the massive level of experience and training and capabilities that are in the team too.
Hard to fathom how a set up like this (and the air ambulance and lifeboats and others) are not funded, while money is spent on plenty other less deserving (to my eyes) causes.
All the best for your selection MR.
We were camping in the Brecons last week and went up pen-y-fan one day. Nice weather at the bottom but really windy and cloudy at the top.
You think there's only one way up and one way down, but once at the top and you turn around a few times it's not hard to lose your bearings. We actually started back down 90° off, only checking map sheet and compass after 50 yards or so when the "path" appeared to drop vertically before us.
On the route back down in the driving rain and cloud, we were passed by so many people in t shirts and trainers, with no bags or coats or anything.
Glad to know the MRT's are there for emergencies, but I'm sure a lot of people see them as being there to sort out their own mess ups or lack of prep. More glad knowing the massive level of experience and training and capabilities that are in the team too.
Hard to fathom how a set up like this (and the air ambulance and lifeboats and others) are not funded, while money is spent on plenty other less deserving (to my eyes) causes.
All the best for your selection MR.
Chester draws said:
Hard to fathom how a set up like this (and the air ambulance and lifeboats and others) are not funded, while money is spent on plenty other less deserving (to my eyes) causes.
Also remember listening to a decent argument from an RNLI man that actually they didn't want to be government funded, as that would bring in all sorts of regulation and cost - they preferred to spend the efforts of fundraising, and actually saving lives. snotrag said:
Chester draws said:
Hard to fathom how a set up like this (and the air ambulance and lifeboats and others) are not funded, while money is spent on plenty other less deserving (to my eyes) causes.
Also remember listening to a decent argument from an RNLI man that actually they didn't want to be government funded, as that would bring in all sorts of regulation and cost - they preferred to spend the efforts of fundraising, and actually saving lives. there is a risk that if the MRTs ( and cave / fell etc) were provided by a statutory body it would be as additional function of one of the 3 inland 999 services especially as there is/ was no suitable overseeing body - Mines rescue was run as part of the NCB / British Coal until it was finally all privatised
Air ambulances - there is equivocal evidence on their cost effectiveness and a fair chunk of the costs are covered by the NHS ( clinical and ops management staffing costs, staff development costs, equipment and consumables ... )
mph1977 said:
snotrag said:
Chester draws said:
Hard to fathom how a set up like this (and the air ambulance and lifeboats and others) are not funded, while money is spent on plenty other less deserving (to my eyes) causes.
Also remember listening to a decent argument from an RNLI man that actually they didn't want to be government funded, as that would bring in all sorts of regulation and cost - they preferred to spend the efforts of fundraising, and actually saving lives. there is a risk that if the MRTs ( and cave / fell etc) were provided by a statutory body it would be as additional function of one of the 3 inland 999 services especially as there is/ was no suitable overseeing body - Mines rescue was run as part of the NCB / British Coal until it was finally all privatised
Air ambulances - there is equivocal evidence on their cost effectiveness and a fair chunk of the costs are covered by the NHS ( clinical and ops management staffing costs, staff development costs, equipment and consumables ... )
Interesting training this Wednesday - Pulley Systems and Crag Snatch.
In earlier posts I've spoken about the belay systems. They were good to further drop casualties down, or lift them in favorable conditions.
A Crag Snatch is very quick response to someone that has over extended themselves and need lowering back down the slope. It's effectively half the main belay system, without the contingency, and can be operated by two persons. It's a simple under-arm sling system to take their weight with leg loops if needed. You need to work hard to gain their trust to get the sling on and then lead them back down the slope. It's awesome to watch the experienced people do this. Even in the most difficult scenarios, they have a knack of taking control and putting people at ease. It's what I watch and learn from.
The pulley system to safely raise the heavy stuff directly is another matter. We need to build in 'Lock Off's and we use prussiks to do so - a prussik knot is a method of attaching a smaller rope to a larger one, and having it lock off in one direction and free to move in another.
The environment was ok, bordering on a bit s
tty. Pont ar Daf looking towards Pen y Fan, if you know the area.And I took those pics in very low light - it was dark for us humans.
It may look messy, but it's good.
Edited by Mothersruin on Friday 12th August 02:57
markmullen said:
Interesting, we use very similar tactics in the swiftwater world, mechanical advantage systems with Prussiks and shunts. Our tech rescue pack has Petzl ID, figure 8s, shunts, slings, carabiners, pulleys etc.
Yeah, our system literally comes out of a bag ready to clip in at each end with all the pulleys in place. Only thing you need to do is set the anchor and attach is the prussiks. The prussiks are the only contact it has to the safety system.Edited by Mothersruin on Friday 12th August 12:44
pgh said:
Fenix 3 - nice choice!
What make are the belay gloves? They look great
It's a top watch and I've only scratched the surface of what it offers. I must dedicate some time to having a proper play with it.What make are the belay gloves? They look great
The gloves? These are highly specialised, rare and expensive, tuned by experts with years of experience gardening gloves for about a tenner
As soon as I saw them, I knew they'd be perfect for line work. I really like that they're very slightly insulated so they will be warmer than normal belay gloves.
And they look great.
https://www.wigleydiy.co.uk/brr-glove-prem-leather...
Well the gloves stayed in my bergen, and I'll explain later.
The heli is an AgustaWestland 139 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW139
Met at the RV, quick briefing, and as soon as we finished the guys from St. Athan SAR crested the hills and were guided in by radio and smoke.
We broke into three groups:
1. Hi Line
2. External
3. Internal
It was a bit weird as the two of us attending noobs were both ex-military. I'd spent time in Middle Wallop with the Army Air Corps (and general Ops requirements while I served) and the other guy was a Royal Marine posted to Yeovilton and had worked directly with the RN airwing and again had general Ops experience of working with helis - yet protocol dictates that we start from the beginning, and quite rightly so. It never hurts to go through the SoPs of working with them. They're awesome bits of kit but need a huge amount of respect, especially when we're working in bad viz and terrain.
Also, and this is the most important bit - there's only so many crews and we need to build solid relationships together. These guys rock like mofos. Even now St. Athan SAR is run by the private sector (Not RAF anymore), they're all experienced SAR guys from across the world and, as you do, the war stories come out, and these guys have the best Top Trumps. Legends. Not something I say lightly. It's such a privilege to work with these guys.
Back to the training - The Hi Line is the rope that attaches to the Winchman, or the stretcher/equipment, as it comes down or goes up. Due to gyroscopic and downdraft effects, there's a risk of stuff going into a spin. The Hi Line stops this by 'enough' tension being applied. It's not much more that a Carabiner with a 'weak link' (in this instance a nylon cord that will break at 150lbs) connected to a rope that will have another Carabiner at the end with a weight bag attached, with the option to attach further weights if needed.
External - we were walked around the aircraft by the pilots, shown the gear it has, where you can and can't approach from, what you can and can't hang on to, the avionics and engineering. My favourite is the new night light that can't be turned on within 30 metres of grass ans structures as it's so powerful that it will ignite them with a focused beam.
Internal - It's small - I'm used to either Sea Kings and Chinooks which are massive inside or combat helis which are tiny. This is in the middle, but a tight squeeze for the stretchers we use, they fit, but it's tight. They have a large rack of medical gear but their main job is to get to someone quickly and get then get them somewhere else quickly. This is where the AW139 excels. The SK is a heli designed to hover, the AW139 is far more dynamic.
All three groups went through this and we were then split into a number of groups of four to be taken up and given flight familiarisation. Group 1 boarded and took off, flew around the area, aborted their first landing due half a dozen horses deciding to have a look at the LZ. Then the were Tasked. They plonked the 4 guys down, kicked them out and then went off to rescue people.
And that was that.
Sadly, it was cut short but it could have been us being tasked - we'll do it again soon. We'll probably do it at the next rescue. We'll just employ good old common sense and get the job done.
Someone was talking about funding and stuff earlier on? One of the biggest reasons why they don't want centralised/government funding, there will be a massive set of rules to follow - I'm extremely heartened by the fact that we work with minimal fuss - there's no bks. Risk assessments are done by experienced individuals who have been doing this for a long time and they just get on with savings people's lives. Funnily enough, there are very few rescue staff incidents.
The heli is an AgustaWestland 139 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AgustaWestland_AW139
Met at the RV, quick briefing, and as soon as we finished the guys from St. Athan SAR crested the hills and were guided in by radio and smoke.
We broke into three groups:
1. Hi Line
2. External
3. Internal
It was a bit weird as the two of us attending noobs were both ex-military. I'd spent time in Middle Wallop with the Army Air Corps (and general Ops requirements while I served) and the other guy was a Royal Marine posted to Yeovilton and had worked directly with the RN airwing and again had general Ops experience of working with helis - yet protocol dictates that we start from the beginning, and quite rightly so. It never hurts to go through the SoPs of working with them. They're awesome bits of kit but need a huge amount of respect, especially when we're working in bad viz and terrain.
Also, and this is the most important bit - there's only so many crews and we need to build solid relationships together. These guys rock like mofos. Even now St. Athan SAR is run by the private sector (Not RAF anymore), they're all experienced SAR guys from across the world and, as you do, the war stories come out, and these guys have the best Top Trumps. Legends. Not something I say lightly. It's such a privilege to work with these guys.
Back to the training - The Hi Line is the rope that attaches to the Winchman, or the stretcher/equipment, as it comes down or goes up. Due to gyroscopic and downdraft effects, there's a risk of stuff going into a spin. The Hi Line stops this by 'enough' tension being applied. It's not much more that a Carabiner with a 'weak link' (in this instance a nylon cord that will break at 150lbs) connected to a rope that will have another Carabiner at the end with a weight bag attached, with the option to attach further weights if needed.
External - we were walked around the aircraft by the pilots, shown the gear it has, where you can and can't approach from, what you can and can't hang on to, the avionics and engineering. My favourite is the new night light that can't be turned on within 30 metres of grass ans structures as it's so powerful that it will ignite them with a focused beam.
Internal - It's small - I'm used to either Sea Kings and Chinooks which are massive inside or combat helis which are tiny. This is in the middle, but a tight squeeze for the stretchers we use, they fit, but it's tight. They have a large rack of medical gear but their main job is to get to someone quickly and get then get them somewhere else quickly. This is where the AW139 excels. The SK is a heli designed to hover, the AW139 is far more dynamic.
All three groups went through this and we were then split into a number of groups of four to be taken up and given flight familiarisation. Group 1 boarded and took off, flew around the area, aborted their first landing due half a dozen horses deciding to have a look at the LZ. Then the were Tasked. They plonked the 4 guys down, kicked them out and then went off to rescue people.
And that was that.
Sadly, it was cut short but it could have been us being tasked - we'll do it again soon. We'll probably do it at the next rescue. We'll just employ good old common sense and get the job done.
Someone was talking about funding and stuff earlier on? One of the biggest reasons why they don't want centralised/government funding, there will be a massive set of rules to follow - I'm extremely heartened by the fact that we work with minimal fuss - there's no b
ks. Risk assessments are done by experienced individuals who have been doing this for a long time and they just get on with savings people's lives. Funnily enough, there are very few rescue staff incidents.
pgh said:
Thanks so much for the link to the gloves - what a great find!
Also a Fenix 3 user. 18 months of onwership, used for running, cycling and walking. Also only scratched the surface of what it can do.
Enjoyed reading the latesst update very much - appreciate you taking the time to post it all.
Love this thread, well done mate.Also a Fenix 3 user. 18 months of onwership, used for running, cycling and walking. Also only scratched the surface of what it can do.
Enjoyed reading the latesst update very much - appreciate you taking the time to post it all.
O/t but the fenix 3 is amazing, try the swimming mode! Lap and stroke count is very good as is open water tracking.
Mike
This week's training was in two parts - an overview to searching water. It's simple, unless you have the specific First Responder and/or SRT training, you don't go anywhere near it. So we'd be used as kit donkeys and comms relays, stuff like that.
Second part was using the Teams Garmin GPS60 units. They're not really used for actual navigation anymore really as the tech has superseded them, however, they are still used for tracking.
Mostly theory/classroom stuff with a quick bimble around with the GPS units to see how they worked.
Second part was using the Teams Garmin GPS60 units. They're not really used for actual navigation anymore really as the tech has superseded them, however, they are still used for tracking.
Mostly theory/classroom stuff with a quick bimble around with the GPS units to see how they worked.
Mothersruin said:
This week's training was in two parts - an overview to searching water. It's simple, unless you have the specific First Responder and/or SRT training, you don't go anywhere near it. So we'd be used as kit donkeys and comms relays, stuff like that.
Does your team have an SRT team? If so I'd really recommend going for it, it's great fun, amazing exercise and you'll get some good juicy jobs. markmullen said:
Mothersruin said:
This week's training was in two parts - an overview to searching water. It's simple, unless you have the specific First Responder and/or SRT training, you don't go anywhere near it. So we'd be used as kit donkeys and comms relays, stuff like that.
Does your team have an SRT team? If so I'd really recommend going for it, it's great fun, amazing exercise and you'll get some good juicy jobs. I'm a great believer in pushing my comfort zone and learning new stuff. I want to be as useful as possible.
No updates for a while chaps - not because we haven't been busy but most has been repetition of previous sessions (in different locations) and a number of fund raising events. Yesterday was a standard SAR exercise but my group got to mess about in disused train tunnels and culverts - quite spooky at night!
Some good pics here
This Sunday there is the Brecon Beast and we'll be manning checkpoints and the like - http://www.breconbeast.co.uk/
Also, it looks like we'll be moving to the Testing stage next week, so I'm currently swatting up on the theory, constantly practicing the knots and going through the technical belay and lift systems.
Some good pics here
This Sunday there is the Brecon Beast and we'll be manning checkpoints and the like - http://www.breconbeast.co.uk/
Also, it looks like we'll be moving to the Testing stage next week, so I'm currently swatting up on the theory, constantly practicing the knots and going through the technical belay and lift systems.
Edited by Mothersruin on Friday 9th September 16:20
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