Hard pedal when engine off.Spongy when running.Air in lines?

Hard pedal when engine off.Spongy when running.Air in lines?

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paultownsend

Original Poster:

2,275 posts

183 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
Maybe a very silly question.

Golf mk4 1.8t.

Had to change the rear near side solid brake line from the under beam flexi to caliper.
Bleed nipple threads within caliper borked so new Pagid item now on.

Bled with the old man. In, out, in, out.......no more bubbles in the line.

Pedal is rock solid with the engine off. Tis a little spongy with the engine running.

Does this point to air being in the line, or a servo issue?

Pump the pedal a few times when it's running and it's nice and firm for one pedal, then it's back to being a little spongy.

Dave Brand

928 posts

268 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
paultownsend said:
Pump the pedal a few times when it's running and it's nice and firm for one pedal, then it's back to being a little spongy.
That's a pretty good indicator of air in the system.

paultownsend

Original Poster:

2,275 posts

183 months

Sunday 24th July 2016
quotequote all
So why does this not happen when the engine is off.
Rock hard when engine is off. Surely if there is air in a line, the pedal will sink?

tapkaJohnD

1,939 posts

204 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Your car has a brake servo, with a large Master cylinder, so that the travel is minimal, but with no engine vacuum it needs a massive pedal pressure.
That's what you feel with the engine off.
With it on you have servo assistance, and can sense the residual bubbles.

Bleed it again. And again, if needed!
Always bleed first the brake furthest from the master cylinder. Not sure which rear brake that is on your Golf. Check, by looking at the run of the brake lines.
John

one eyed mick

1,189 posts

161 months

Monday 25th July 2016
quotequote all
Servo action!

paultownsend

Original Poster:

2,275 posts

183 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
Gave that line another bleed. A single bubble came out and I bled the m/c.
A little better.
Now back to the servo. Should the pedal sink slowly to the floor when the engine is on. Or does that still mean air in the line, somewhere......

RichB

51,531 posts

284 months

Tuesday 26th July 2016
quotequote all
paultownsend said:
Should the pedal sink slowly to the floor when the engine is on...
No, that's not right. If you've got rid of all the air the pedal should be firm. Have you bled all four corners?

The Wookie

13,936 posts

228 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
An older car with a lot of servo you might expect a bit of creep if you're standing on it. If it's creeping all the way to the floor with light/moderate pressure then the master cylinder is knobbled

If you've replaced lines you may have introduced a bit of air into the ABS block (although less likely for a short section at the rear). Try going out and standing on the brakes a few times then re-bleed thoroughly, you might find a bit more air.

SebringMan

1,773 posts

186 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
I'd bleed all 4 corners just to be sure. If nothing else, you are changing the brake fluid which should be done on a car every two years smile.

paultownsend

Original Poster:

2,275 posts

183 months

Saturday 6th August 2016
quotequote all
All sorted! Bled all 4 lines, clutch and M/c!

Now, the aircon has broken! New condenser time.....

paultownsend

Original Poster:

2,275 posts

183 months

Saturday 6th August 2016
quotequote all
All sorted! Bled all 4 lines, clutch and M/c!

Now, the aircon has broken! New condenser time.....