Divorcing empty nesters...
Discussion
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
Also, you fail to see that people with children have an informed opinion as they've been on both sides of the coin. Your 'opinion' is uninformed and therefore pure conjecture so worthless I'm afraid. I know you think you know how you'd feel but you actually can't as any father can confirm. Soz!
Most of the people who have children were already amenable to the idea of having them before they had them. Similarly most of the people who ride motorbikes already wanted to do so before they did so.So the opinion of people who have children because they chose to have them is, I'm afraid, worthless
Ari said:
I think that's the key. Yes, there are some dreadful blokes out there, as many as there are women perhaps, maybe more. The difference, from what I've seen, is that nasty blokes tend just be nasty blokes. Women find them 'charmers' or 'dangerous' or 'exciting', or maybe they think they can change them or maybe they think he's better than nothing. But they normally have pretty big clues as to what they're getting into, even if they do often seem to ignore the signs.
SOME women, on the other hand, are extremely good at working out what a bloke wants from them and being it long enough to get themselves into the position they want - married, pregnant, whatever. Then, and only then, is the time you see the woman behind the mask.
I stress again SOME. But I do believe there's an extra layer of manipulation that SOME women seem to have that men don't. Maybe they're just smarter.
I remember listening to a marriage guidance counsellor being interviewed once. She said that in 80% of cases of infidelity, it was the male that strayed. Therefore, that proved that men were far more prone to it. I thought 'b
ks, women are just much much better at not getting caught'.
Your post reminded me of the book on this subject, "The Manipulated Man" by Esther Villar :SOME women, on the other hand, are extremely good at working out what a bloke wants from them and being it long enough to get themselves into the position they want - married, pregnant, whatever. Then, and only then, is the time you see the woman behind the mask.
I stress again SOME. But I do believe there's an extra layer of manipulation that SOME women seem to have that men don't. Maybe they're just smarter.
I remember listening to a marriage guidance counsellor being interviewed once. She said that in 80% of cases of infidelity, it was the male that strayed. Therefore, that proved that men were far more prone to it. I thought 'b
ks, women are just much much better at not getting caught'. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Manipulated-Man-Esther-Vi...
I believe the manipulation it has its history in Courtly Love dating back to the 1100's and the concept of chivalry.
https://gynocentrism.com
Basically, the theory goes that until men learn that we are not here to pander to the needs of women and learn to control our sex drive it will always be this way.
I do think we live in thrall to women in the west and it is a gynocentric society. Some of the posts above reflect that but is apparent in other aspects of life too.
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
Also, you fail to see that people with children have an informed opinion as they've been on both sides of the coin. Your 'opinion' is uninformed and therefore pure conjecture so worthless I'm afraid. I know you think you know how you'd feel but you actually can't as any father can confirm. Soz!
Most of the people who have children were already amenable to the idea of having them before they had them. Similarly most of the people who ride motorbikes already wanted to do so before they did so.So the opinion of people who have children because they chose to have them is, I'm afraid, worthless
PAUL500 said:
When we split I did not have a clue about the process, just assumed it was fair and reasonable.
The legal process is a joke, no framework as to how things get awarded fairly. Down to the personal feelings of the judge on the day.
In all we saw about 7 judges, each one had a starkly different viewpoint.
I filled out all the paperwork, provided all the evidence, reams and reams of it, I don't think the judge at the final hearing even opened up the file to read it.
If there had been 10 different judges sat in that room in the final hearing there would have been 10 different verdicts, all in favour of the mother using the children to cream as much £££ as possible.
I left £20k in marital savings when I moved out, first thing she did was spend £5k of it on another boob job, I didn't even want her to have the first one a few years before, she then blew the rest on legal fees but then wanted half of anything I had left in the garage as well.
You provide detailed evidence, it just gets ignored or brushed off, where as they just verbally make things up, not a shred of evidence in support and it even gets listed as true by the judge in his summing up.
Ex said I was running an ebay business not just building my house, what I had been doing was selling off my project car I had been collecting parts for years to restore bit by bit as i simply needed the money to finish the house.
I even provided all my tax returns to prove otherwise, and said to run a business you have to actually buy stock not just sell it, despite all that he said I was salting the money away and it was a business! not one piece of proof, just her claims.
I could tell from the outset he simply did not like me.
I have mentioned this on PH before, but I had jokingly written on a thread here I was going to buy a VC10, her barrister after stalking me on PH told the judge I had not listed it on my assets.
I asked him did he even know what one was, he replied smarmily why not tell us (he did not have a clue), so I did, its a wide body 200 seat jet airliner! the RAF had been scrapping theirs and I had jokingly said on a thread here I might buy one to restore.
The judge wrote it down as an undeclared asset even after that!
Then that is it, no recourse at all, you can appeal but only if anything done was unlawful, but if its simply unfair then tough luck, another judge wont go against his buddies.
After that the wives can do a 100% u turn on anything. Mine stated in court she would never try to put our daughters into care (they have medical issues and I knew she would try to offload them asap once she got what she wanted, I even told the judge that at the time)
Then when she tried to do exactly that, even confirming it by text to me that I knew it was coming years ago, which I presented to court last month, plus documents from social services the judge just said that was then, this is now, she changed her mind, tough, nothing wrong with that! unbelievable.
He even said at the last hearing whats wrong with my daughter living in a house with me worth 30% when he actually awarded my ex 70% in the first place purely on the basis of her claimed need to home them to a certain level for many years to come, and he gave her every penny she asked for as a result.
When I used to see those articles about Fathers for Justice I thought they were just the barmy fringe elements/bad dads/ wasters etc
How wrong was I, now I can see how the poor sods had been pushed to the very limits by their conniving wives.
Christ.The legal process is a joke, no framework as to how things get awarded fairly. Down to the personal feelings of the judge on the day.
In all we saw about 7 judges, each one had a starkly different viewpoint.
I filled out all the paperwork, provided all the evidence, reams and reams of it, I don't think the judge at the final hearing even opened up the file to read it.
If there had been 10 different judges sat in that room in the final hearing there would have been 10 different verdicts, all in favour of the mother using the children to cream as much £££ as possible.
I left £20k in marital savings when I moved out, first thing she did was spend £5k of it on another boob job, I didn't even want her to have the first one a few years before, she then blew the rest on legal fees but then wanted half of anything I had left in the garage as well.
You provide detailed evidence, it just gets ignored or brushed off, where as they just verbally make things up, not a shred of evidence in support and it even gets listed as true by the judge in his summing up.
Ex said I was running an ebay business not just building my house, what I had been doing was selling off my project car I had been collecting parts for years to restore bit by bit as i simply needed the money to finish the house.
I even provided all my tax returns to prove otherwise, and said to run a business you have to actually buy stock not just sell it, despite all that he said I was salting the money away and it was a business! not one piece of proof, just her claims.
I could tell from the outset he simply did not like me.
I have mentioned this on PH before, but I had jokingly written on a thread here I was going to buy a VC10, her barrister after stalking me on PH told the judge I had not listed it on my assets.
I asked him did he even know what one was, he replied smarmily why not tell us (he did not have a clue), so I did, its a wide body 200 seat jet airliner! the RAF had been scrapping theirs and I had jokingly said on a thread here I might buy one to restore.
The judge wrote it down as an undeclared asset even after that!
Then that is it, no recourse at all, you can appeal but only if anything done was unlawful, but if its simply unfair then tough luck, another judge wont go against his buddies.
After that the wives can do a 100% u turn on anything. Mine stated in court she would never try to put our daughters into care (they have medical issues and I knew she would try to offload them asap once she got what she wanted, I even told the judge that at the time)
Then when she tried to do exactly that, even confirming it by text to me that I knew it was coming years ago, which I presented to court last month, plus documents from social services the judge just said that was then, this is now, she changed her mind, tough, nothing wrong with that! unbelievable.
He even said at the last hearing whats wrong with my daughter living in a house with me worth 30% when he actually awarded my ex 70% in the first place purely on the basis of her claimed need to home them to a certain level for many years to come, and he gave her every penny she asked for as a result.
When I used to see those articles about Fathers for Justice I thought they were just the barmy fringe elements/bad dads/ wasters etc
How wrong was I, now I can see how the poor sods had been pushed to the very limits by their conniving wives.
Reading that just made me think of the scene in law abiding citizen where that woman in the high rose office gets sniped by Gerard butler as she denies him something over the phone.
theboss said:
Paul I can empathise considerably as I'm going through hell at the moment too. My wife ran off with a long term affair partner 6 months ago - my own personal relationship 'car crash' thread here is recorded for posterity here --> http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I can't imagine the prospect of a child being taken into care - I'm sorry if I've missed the blindingly obvious - but can you prevent this by offering to accomodate and care for her?
I always thought I could split with my ex confident in the sense that no matter what came between us personally, she was inherently a good mother and child welfare would not be an overriding concern. What I never anticipated was her entering a state of sheer infatuation with a new lover who takes precendence over everything including the well-being of our children. It was one thing to break my family (and his - also married with kids) but now she is doing anything and everything to manipulate the situation to ensure she can maximise entitlement to benefits and maintenance whilst disguising her new partner's income to ensure his liabilies are minimised, and enjoying child-free schooldays and weekends by exploiting the fact that I will care for my own kids at any opportunity.
At worst so far, I have had a 'misguided' allegation of child sexual abuse to social services, and as of this morning my autistic twelve year old has been dosed up on anti-depressants on the whim of the ex who declared to the doctor that she is 'anxious' about having to switch between the two homes.
My stepson, her son, turned 16 and moved straight back in with me which I believe says something too. Fortunately I kept the family home as it was rented.
I applied for an order in the family court a few weeks ago and am awaiting a first hearing. My heart goes out to you and others in similar situations.
Another load of crap!!! I'm age 70 and I do feel so sorry for you young/ish men!I can't imagine the prospect of a child being taken into care - I'm sorry if I've missed the blindingly obvious - but can you prevent this by offering to accomodate and care for her?
I always thought I could split with my ex confident in the sense that no matter what came between us personally, she was inherently a good mother and child welfare would not be an overriding concern. What I never anticipated was her entering a state of sheer infatuation with a new lover who takes precendence over everything including the well-being of our children. It was one thing to break my family (and his - also married with kids) but now she is doing anything and everything to manipulate the situation to ensure she can maximise entitlement to benefits and maintenance whilst disguising her new partner's income to ensure his liabilies are minimised, and enjoying child-free schooldays and weekends by exploiting the fact that I will care for my own kids at any opportunity.
At worst so far, I have had a 'misguided' allegation of child sexual abuse to social services, and as of this morning my autistic twelve year old has been dosed up on anti-depressants on the whim of the ex who declared to the doctor that she is 'anxious' about having to switch between the two homes.
My stepson, her son, turned 16 and moved straight back in with me which I believe says something too. Fortunately I kept the family home as it was rented.
I applied for an order in the family court a few weeks ago and am awaiting a first hearing. My heart goes out to you and others in similar situations.
Edited by theboss on Monday 10th October 18:59
Tony 1234 said:
Another load of crap!!! I'm age 70 and I do feel so sorry for you young/ish men!
Its heart-breaking to watch the kids go through the process. My ex picked them up from school one day and without saying a word in advance, took them to a new home she had set up secretly with her affair partner - who they only recognised as a stranger from the gym / swimming pool - and who was waiting at the gate to greet them.They have been utterly bewildered, confused and devastated, yet she pats them on the head and tells me how happy they are, and that children are resilient. I hate that phrase because sure, a child can adapt well to having a leg blown off by a landmine, but that doesn't make it a desirable life experience.
Last weekend my youngest told me she is lonely in her Mum's home because "Mummy watches TV in bed all day with [t
t] whilst I'm downstairs."I have had some comeuppance though, by providing irrefutable evidence of their long term affair and double life to his own wife and by extension, his children. He has been exposed and humiliated and his children have disowned him. I'm now good friends with his ex, and collaborating closely on our respective legal proceedings.
What I find astounding but also quite common it seems, from anecdotal experience of friends through to these type of PH threads, is the totally callous disregard for others - not just long-term partners but children - combined with the subsequent sense of entitlement. Its been clear in my case that she planned her move for a while (a disguised bank account was established over a year prior) but yet still couldn't have had a more abrupt impact on the children if she'd tried. Any negative emotional impact on the children has allegedly been caused by myself and his ex 'making trouble'.
Edited by theboss on Tuesday 11th October 12:44
I don't know how to put this easily, so I'm just gonna put this out there.
Obviously there are some guys out there going through a lot of pain but some of the stuff posted on this thread as fact is almost certainly fantasy.
In my job I often see both sides of a marital split, occasional take part in social services conferences on a particular child's welfare etc.
I can honestly say after doing this over a twenty odd year period that neither men or women come across as the most vindictive or manipulative, they are about the same.
Listening to either part in isolation certainly gives the impression of devils and saints, but once you've heard both in the majority of cases you can see both sides.
Furthermore I've never met a social worker that didn't think they had the child's best welfare at heart. In the main that's what they are in the job for and where they get their sense of purpose and job fulfilment from. If it looks like there is an obvious place for a child but the social services won't use it there is usually a reason.
I will say that it is my impression that there are very few solicitors that actually help with the process of a martial split, and the amount by which solicitors and barristers profit from prolonging the process is obscene. And this, as a civilised society, is something that should change.
Obviously there are some guys out there going through a lot of pain but some of the stuff posted on this thread as fact is almost certainly fantasy.
In my job I often see both sides of a marital split, occasional take part in social services conferences on a particular child's welfare etc.
I can honestly say after doing this over a twenty odd year period that neither men or women come across as the most vindictive or manipulative, they are about the same.
Listening to either part in isolation certainly gives the impression of devils and saints, but once you've heard both in the majority of cases you can see both sides.
Furthermore I've never met a social worker that didn't think they had the child's best welfare at heart. In the main that's what they are in the job for and where they get their sense of purpose and job fulfilment from. If it looks like there is an obvious place for a child but the social services won't use it there is usually a reason.
I will say that it is my impression that there are very few solicitors that actually help with the process of a martial split, and the amount by which solicitors and barristers profit from prolonging the process is obscene. And this, as a civilised society, is something that should change.
julian64 said:
I will say that it is my impression that there are very few solicitors that actually help with the process of a martial split, and the amount by which solicitors and barristers profit from prolonging the process is obscene. And this, as a civilised society, is something that should change.
This x1000What really grates is the way they call themselves "family solicitors" they are far from it.
I wont go into detail about my own divorce but the issues i had regarding the children did make me look at the solicitors and think " how can you sleep at night"
julian64 said:
Furthermore I've never met a social worker that didn't think they had the child's best welfare at heart. In the main that's what they are in the job for and where they get their sense of purpose and job fulfilment from. If it looks like there is an obvious place for a child but the social services won't use it there is usually a reason.
Are you sure you're on the right thread? I might have missed it, but I don't think social workers have been even mentioned, let alone accused of not having the child's best interests at heart. 
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
Also, you fail to see that people with children have an informed opinion as they've been on both sides of the coin. Your 'opinion' is uninformed and therefore pure conjecture so worthless I'm afraid. I know you think you know how you'd feel but you actually can't as any father can confirm. Soz!
Most of the people who have children were already amenable to the idea of having them before they had them. Similarly most of the people who ride motorbikes already wanted to do so before they did so.So the opinion of people who have children because they chose to have them is, I'm afraid, worthless
steveatesh said:
I believe the manipulation it has its history in Courtly Love dating back to the 1100's and the concept of chivalry.
https://gynocentrism.com
Basically, the theory goes that until men learn that we are not here to pander to the needs of women and learn to control our sex drive it will always be this way.
I do think we live in thrall to women in the west and it is a gynocentric society. Some of the posts above reflect that but is apparent in other aspects of life too.
Thanks Steve, always happy to learn. Gynocentrism, why men are so easily controlled by pussy because of the second brain that they hide behind their flies!https://gynocentrism.com
Basically, the theory goes that until men learn that we are not here to pander to the needs of women and learn to control our sex drive it will always be this way.
I do think we live in thrall to women in the west and it is a gynocentric society. Some of the posts above reflect that but is apparent in other aspects of life too.
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
Also, you fail to see that people with children have an informed opinion as they've been on both sides of the coin. Your 'opinion' is uninformed and therefore pure conjecture so worthless I'm afraid. I know you think you know how you'd feel but you actually can't as any father can confirm. Soz!
Most of the people who have children were already amenable to the idea of having them before they had them. Similarly most of the people who ride motorbikes already wanted to do so before they did so.So the opinion of people who have children because they chose to have them is, I'm afraid, worthless
singlecoil said:
Any bloke who likes sex and hasn't had a vasectomy is at putting himself at risk of ending up like many of the posters on this thread. Whether that happens or not is down to luck. I've been very lucky, and I had a vasectomy too.
My sympathies to people who find themselves in one of these awful situations. People planning to get married and/or have children should be made to read this thread, then at least they won't be able to say they weren't warned.
If you take the trouble to read it properly this time you will see that there is nothing there that warranted your taking such exception to.My sympathies to people who find themselves in one of these awful situations. People planning to get married and/or have children should be made to read this thread, then at least they won't be able to say they weren't warned.
I'm not saying that people who feel the inclination to have children shouldn't do so, what I'm saying is that it's having children which puts them at risk of the situations that have been described. Women bent on divorce for pecuniary advantage have a lot less leverage if there are no children.
If someone was riding a bicycle without a helmet I would point out the increased injury risk, not tell them not to do it. I don't need to ride a bicycle myself to be able to give that warning, but I expect you will tell me that as I don't ride a bike I'm not entitled to speak on that subject either.
YankeePorker said:
steveatesh said:
I believe the manipulation it has its history in Courtly Love dating back to the 1100's and the concept of chivalry.
https://gynocentrism.com
Basically, the theory goes that until men learn that we are not here to pander to the needs of women and learn to control our sex drive it will always be this way.
I do think we live in thrall to women in the west and it is a gynocentric society. Some of the posts above reflect that but is apparent in other aspects of life too.
Thanks Steve, always happy to learn. Gynocentrism, why men are so easily controlled by pussy because of the second brain that they hide behind their flies!https://gynocentrism.com
Basically, the theory goes that until men learn that we are not here to pander to the needs of women and learn to control our sex drive it will always be this way.
I do think we live in thrall to women in the west and it is a gynocentric society. Some of the posts above reflect that but is apparent in other aspects of life too.
"
Gynocentrism n. (Greek, ????, “female” – Latin centrum, “centred” ) refers to a dominant or exclusive focus on women in theory or practice; or to the advocacy of this.1 Anything can be considered gynocentric (Adj.) when it is concerned exclusively with a female (or specifically a feminist) point of view.2
History
Elements of gynocentric culture existing today are derived from practices originating in medieval society such as feudalism, chivalry and courtly love that continue to inform contemporary society in subtle ways. Peter Wright refers to such gynocentric patters as constituting a “sexual feudalism,” as attested by female writers like Lucrezia Marinella who in 1600 AD recounted that women of lower socioeconomic classes were treated as superiors by men who acted as servants or beasts born to serve them, or by Modesta Pozzo who in 1590 wrote;
“don’t we see that men’s rightful task is to go out to work and wear themselves out trying to accumulate wealth, as though they were our factors or stewards, so that we can remain at home like the lady of the house directing their work and enjoying the profit of their labors? That, if you like, is the reason why men are naturally stronger and more robust than us — they need to be, so they can put up with the hard labor they must endure in our service.”
I came across an article that gave many examples of gynocentrism in mainstream society, but includes things like an education system that favours girls, health spend, criminal justice, family law, suicide rates, acceptance of male deaths at work etc etc, all of which disadvantage men and boys and favour women and girls. Hidden gynocentrism in action. I'll try and find it again.
It's eye opening when you get into it!
steveatesh said:
Loads of interesting stuff about gynocentrism
back in the day when one of the lads from rugby or cricket used to sneak off early to be with his girlfriend rather than talk ste drinking bitter we used to say he was struck.It's not quite as intellectually rigorous as the theory of gynocentrism, but it's similar.
I am not conflating this with some of the HORRENDOUS stories on here, but some people make terrible decisions to get their dick wet.
theboss said:
Tony 1234 said:
Another load of crap!!! I'm age 70 and I do feel so sorry for you young/ish men!
Its heart-breaking to watch the kids go through the process. My ex picked them up from school one day and without saying a word in advance, took them to a new home she had set up secretly with her affair partner - who they only recognised as a stranger from the gym / swimming pool - and who was waiting at the gate to greet them.They have been utterly bewildered, confused and devastated, yet she pats them on the head and tells me how happy they are, and that children are resilient. I hate that phrase because sure, a child can adapt well to having a leg blown off by a landmine, but that doesn't make it a desirable life experience.
Last weekend my youngest told me she is lonely in her Mum's home because "Mummy watches TV in bed all day with [t
t] whilst I'm downstairs."I have had some comeuppance though, by providing irrefutable evidence of their long term affair and double life to his own wife and by extension, his children. He has been exposed and humiliated and his children have disowned him. I'm now good friends with his ex, and collaborating closely on our respective legal proceedings.
What I find astounding but also quite common it seems, from anecdotal experience of friends through to these type of PH threads, is the totally callous disregard for others - not just long-term partners but children - combined with the subsequent sense of entitlement. Its been clear in my case that she planned her move for a while (a disguised bank account was established over a year prior) but yet still couldn't have had a more abrupt impact on the children if she'd tried. Any negative emotional impact on the children has allegedly been caused by myself and his ex 'making trouble'.
Edited by theboss on Tuesday 11th October 12:44
We were 8, 6 and 4 when we came home from school to find a woman had moved into our house along with her 4 children who were similar ages. I'm 33 now and I still remember walking into my bedroom finding my toys out with strangers playing with them, thanks dad!
It took around a year for the courts to let us move out to our mums, which was long enough.
julian64 said:
I don't know how to put this easily, so I'm just gonna put this out there.
Obviously there are some guys out there going through a lot of pain but some of the stuff posted on this thread as fact is almost certainly fantasy.
In my job I often see both sides of a marital split, occasional take part in social services conferences on a particular child's welfare etc.
I can honestly say after doing this over a twenty odd year period that neither men or women come across as the most vindictive or manipulative, they are about the same.
Listening to either part in isolation certainly gives the impression of devils and saints, but once you've heard both in the majority of cases you can see both sides.
Furthermore I've never met a social worker that didn't think they had the child's best welfare at heart. In the main that's what they are in the job for and where they get their sense of purpose and job fulfilment from. If it looks like there is an obvious place for a child but the social services won't use it there is usually a reason.
I will say that it is my impression that there are very few solicitors that actually help with the process of a martial split, and the amount by which solicitors and barristers profit from prolonging the process is obscene. And this, as a civilised society, is something that should change.
I take offence at your use of the word "fantasy" when you no nothing of the matters directly being discussed. Yes there are always two sides to a story, but to clarify in my case, social services did not seek to put my daughter into care, my ex wife actually unilaterally contacted them and sought a section 20 voluntary agreement to put her into a care home, therefore they were compelled to investigate. However without my agreement that could not be forced through.Obviously there are some guys out there going through a lot of pain but some of the stuff posted on this thread as fact is almost certainly fantasy.
In my job I often see both sides of a marital split, occasional take part in social services conferences on a particular child's welfare etc.
I can honestly say after doing this over a twenty odd year period that neither men or women come across as the most vindictive or manipulative, they are about the same.
Listening to either part in isolation certainly gives the impression of devils and saints, but once you've heard both in the majority of cases you can see both sides.
Furthermore I've never met a social worker that didn't think they had the child's best welfare at heart. In the main that's what they are in the job for and where they get their sense of purpose and job fulfilment from. If it looks like there is an obvious place for a child but the social services won't use it there is usually a reason.
I will say that it is my impression that there are very few solicitors that actually help with the process of a martial split, and the amount by which solicitors and barristers profit from prolonging the process is obscene. And this, as a civilised society, is something that should change.
Social services then confirmed there were not he grounds for them to apply for a care order via the courts.
They then brokered an agreement with my ex signed whereby my daughter would come to live with me, but when I took this back to the courts to have the financial order amended to reflect this need she then backed right out of it, as it would have triggered the required barder event.
The judge said it was not a legal document she signed so he could not make her comply with it, therefore the barder event had not happened, therefore no grounds for the application, therefore I have to pay her legal fees!
Within two weeks she was back onto social services trying to offload my daughter yet again, but this time trying to get them to do it in court against my will .......the saga continues, thats where I am at the moment.
My daughter in the meantime has rung the police on numerous occasions making allegations against my ex but they wont listen to her and she has run away from home at least 3 times, they just keep finding her and taking her back.
As you will see from the time stamp its is 4.50 in the morning as I am typing this, I have been awake since 3am, not been able to have a full nights sleep in months.
Edited by PAUL500 on Wednesday 12th October 04:51
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
singlecoil said:
klmhcp said:
Also, you fail to see that people with children have an informed opinion as they've been on both sides of the coin. Your 'opinion' is uninformed and therefore pure conjecture so worthless I'm afraid. I know you think you know how you'd feel but you actually can't as any father can confirm. Soz!
Most of the people who have children were already amenable to the idea of having them before they had them. Similarly most of the people who ride motorbikes already wanted to do so before they did so.So the opinion of people who have children because they chose to have them is, I'm afraid, worthless
singlecoil said:
Any bloke who likes sex and hasn't had a vasectomy is at putting himself at risk of ending up like many of the posters on this thread. Whether that happens or not is down to luck. I've been very lucky, and I had a vasectomy too.
My sympathies to people who find themselves in one of these awful situations. People planning to get married and/or have children should be made to read this thread, then at least they won't be able to say they weren't warned.
If you take the trouble to read it properly this time you will see that there is nothing there that warranted your taking such exception to.My sympathies to people who find themselves in one of these awful situations. People planning to get married and/or have children should be made to read this thread, then at least they won't be able to say they weren't warned.
I'm not saying that people who feel the inclination to have children shouldn't do so, what I'm saying is that it's having children which puts them at risk of the situations that have been described. Women bent on divorce for pecuniary advantage have a lot less leverage if there are no children.
If someone was riding a bicycle without a helmet I would point out the increased injury risk, not tell them not to do it. I don't need to ride a bicycle myself to be able to give that warning, but I expect you will tell me that as I don't ride a bike I'm not entitled to speak on that subject either.
However, we're not talking about helmets here of course but a much more natural, compelling desire. I do appreciate that some men don't have the desire however and that's fine but in the same way I don't preach to them about how they really should have children, the same courtesy is expected in return - don't preach back to parents about why it's a mistake and what the potential pitfalls are as if we hadn't considered that at all.
I think this has run its course now. I refuse to discuss the merits of having a family with someone who doesn't have one any further. That's not intended as a slight on you by the way, it's just a pointless conversation that you cannot understand (demonstrated by your helmet nonsense).
klmhcp said:
I don't preach to them about how they really should have children
Well you must be one of one, then.My wife is 32, me, 28 and ALL we get, week in, week out, is s
te from other adults telling us how great our lives would be if we had kids. Personally, I think they know they f
ked up, and want to trap us into the same mistake! Edited by TheLordJohn on Wednesday 12th October 13:10
klmhcp said:
In your analogy you would needed to have esperienced what it feels like to ride a bicycle without a helmet on before you lectures on the cost-benefit of it.
This illustrates where you are going wrong. I didn't say anything about the cost/benefit, I simply pointed out that there was an increased risk of injury.I've obviously touched a nerve with my original point, I can only think your super-sensitivity and misunderstanding has been caused by the decision to have children being made not by you, but for you. Initially you were against the idea, but when the first child arrived nature took over and the 'greatest joy of your life' arrived. Good for you.
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