Divorcing empty nesters...
Discussion
CoolHands said:
I don't see why you don't move out, this all seems very harmful.
Because if he does she will change the locks and withdraw all access to his son and destroy every possession he has in the house. It puts his negotiating point to zero
Been there done that got the t shirt..........
Rich1973 said:
Targarama said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Do you ever record any of these 'events'. Might be useful in future.anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's tough isn't it? I really do feel for you because I can see you are trying your very best here. Please don't see what I am offering as criticism but as an offer of help, however misplaced. I can't offer anything other than generic observations about what's worked for me and others, in situations which on the face of it look similar, at least in part. Over the years, due to various circumstances, I have learnt to adapt my communication style, learnt to empathise more, taken on lots of extra hints and tips (for example one training course demonstrated how being playful works wonders for de-escalation - a technique for explosive children known as PACE), but most importantly I have learnt that you've sometimes just got to let go, to not mirror and get upset by the moods of others, even if they are people very close to you. Otherwise they are in charge of you too.
Your wife probably is getting up angry, by the way. Cortisol is highest in the morning, and hers will already be high based on your description of her general behaviour.
And she will ignore it when you reproach her about it. Of course she shouldn't behave like that in front of her son, but she's not going to hear you when she's like that, because her pre-frontal cortex is essentially switched off. De-escalate first then apply reason/consequences.
Rich1973 said:
Must admit I have thought the same thing. Tiny concealed camera or a sound recording device.
This is standard advice on a sad forum that I frequent to discuss marital difficulties. Once it gets to this stage Tonker, the old hands all recommend carrying a VAR (voice activated recorder) with you whenever in her presence. A particular model made by Sony is the weapon of choice. Very handy when the cops get called out for sod all.This has become one of the saddest topics to read, after all the funny and entertaining posts Tonker has provided over the years, and then to read this 
.
From everything written, I would say that your wife feels utterly betrayed by you for leaving, and it all comes out in this awful behaviour.
Utterly betrayed, because she thought you'd be there to look after her forever?
Weight gain after having a child? Then separate bedrooms because of snoring? Anyone would feel hurt and rejected surely?
I hope for your boys sake, that everything gets resolved as soon as possible
.From everything written, I would say that your wife feels utterly betrayed by you for leaving, and it all comes out in this awful behaviour.
Utterly betrayed, because she thought you'd be there to look after her forever?
Weight gain after having a child? Then separate bedrooms because of snoring? Anyone would feel hurt and rejected surely?
I hope for your boys sake, that everything gets resolved as soon as possible
Just keep everything posted here collected into a 'written' diary. With the commentary and insight on each incident contained, it demonstrates the unreasonableness so much better to anyone else (like - us here!) than playing back covert recordings of a moment of shoutiness and expecting others to understand in the round.
Best wishes Tonker - horrible situation I hope resolves soon.
Best wishes Tonker - horrible situation I hope resolves soon.
YankeePorker said:
Rich1973 said:
Must admit I have thought the same thing. Tiny concealed camera or a sound recording device.
This is standard advice on a sad forum that I frequent to discuss marital difficulties. Once it gets to this stage Tonker, the old hands all recommend carrying a VAR (voice activated recorder) with you whenever in her presence. A particular model made by Sony is the weapon of choice. Very handy when the cops get called out for sod all.Once any such accusations are levelled formally, the husband will be arrested without further corroboration and bail conditions will prevent return to the matrimonial home. This outcome alone is a strong motivator to some women, not to mention potential leverage further down the line over settlement details.
Such events need to be prevented as far as humanly possible. IANAL and I know tonker is, but I've seen it happen as above.
My own solicitor, close to retirement at the time and somebody who had seen it all, helped me to avoid the wife aspects as above - and the 'children' were all either at uni or secondary school so she had no options there anyway...they all walked out on her due to the unreasonable/irrational behaviour once we had another place to go to.
Watch your back tonker.
bristolracer said:
CoolHands said:
I don't see why you don't move out, this all seems very harmful.
Because if he does she will change the locks and withdraw all access to his son and destroy every possession he has in the house. It puts his negotiating point to zero
Been there done that got the t shirt..........
All the talk of diaries, recording anything etc, waste of time, judge wont even read it.
Its simply easier for the courts/social services to side with the mother when children are involved, less comeback or effects on the judges pension in the future.
Edited by PAUL500 on Friday 25th November 17:44
Cold said:
And yet some white knights will still claim that misogynist attitudes abound around the cautionary tales of marriage.
Some right-on folks are in the habit of figuratively 'patting women on their heads' when leaping to their general defence; it's curious that such folk consider a defence is needed but at such times on PH, irony really matters. In reality it's better to speak as you find. In some cases what we find isn't flattering to say the least, but in other cases it will be.In the present context we can only hope that tonker has every base covered atm as suggested. Not for the judge but for prior events.
Cold said:
And yet some white knights will still claim that misogynist attitudes abound around the cautionary tales of marriage.
No disrespect to Tonker, but his case seems quite extreme and is a sample of one - for every poor chap like him who has to deal with somebody who, by his admission (again, no disrespect) seems to be a total fruit cake there are plenty of people marry and do well enough and I'd imagine that even the vast majority of those won can't make things work and seek a divorce have a far more amicable split than our man Tonker, whom I have the utmost sympathy for.Of course, there's plenty of unreasonable men out there too, although I appreciate that the courts (and therefore legal recourse) are less likely to side with such a creature - we men are in deep s
t, lock stock and barrel, due to our perceived privilege and positions of power, regardless of the veracity of such situations.FYI Sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders are the models recommended by the "infidelity techies" on another forum. Not had to use these devices myself, but It is said that you should equip them with Lithium batteries for good staying power.
Edited to add, set it up for 44K bit rate, balancing file size vs quality. In menus turn off the auto beep feature for discretion.
Edited to add, set it up for 44K bit rate, balancing file size vs quality. In menus turn off the auto beep feature for discretion.
Edited by YankeePorker on Friday 25th November 19:07
YankeePorker said:
FYI Sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders are the models recommended by the "infidelity techies" on another forum. Not had to use these devices myself, but It is said that you should equip them with Lithium batteries for good staying power.
Edited to add, set it up for 44K bit rate, balancing file size vs quality. In menus turn off the auto beep feature for discretion.
There are plenty of mobile apps that do this discretely and it's much more natural to have a mobile phone around than a dedicated device. I did record episodes with my mental ex. Didn't have to use the recordings but there as a backup and did help when writing down what had happened and remind her of them as we negotiated our split and kids in front of mediators - and also in reminding myself occasionally why I booted her when I had moments of doubt/stupid sentimentality. Also helped when I thought I was going mad with her gaslighting (denying things she'd actually done or said) and projecting her anger onto me (they'll accuse you of doing the things they are actually guilty of doing themselves).Edited to add, set it up for 44K bit rate, balancing file size vs quality. In menus turn off the auto beep feature for discretion.
Edited by YankeePorker on Friday 25th November 19:07
bristolracer said:
CoolHands said:
I don't see why you don't move out, this all seems very harmful.
Because if he does she will change the locks and withdraw all access to his son and destroy every possession he has in the house. It puts his negotiating point to zero
Been there done that got the t shirt..........
It's not going well for the child now.
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