Red light camera and cycle boxes

[Chebble]

Good evening ladies and gents.

Today I was coming up to a set of lights just as they turned to Amber - rather than taking any risks and trying to make it through, I did an emergency stop. This led to me stopping in the cycle box, just before the second white line - but only just. I seem to be finding conflicting information on the Internet - am I likely to get a ticket?

I was focused on stopping safely rather than watching timing of the lights. All I know is that I stopped just before the line. It's been a bright day, so I'm not sure if I'd have seen any flashes at all.

Just wondering if anyone has had any experiences similar to the above. Thanks in advance.

Edited by Chebble on Thursday 18th August 19:56

[megaphone]

You won't get a red light fine if you didn't cross the junction. Stopping in a cycle box is a different offence, they where quite strict on it when the boxes first appeared, usually using a CCTV camera to fine. I've not heard of anyone getting a fine for ages, I've unintentionally stopped in them loads of times and see many others doing so.

[vonhosen]

You don't commit an offence passing either line on amber, you commit an offence passing either line against red.

ie
If you pass the first line on amber but stop before the second line = no offence.
If you pass the first line against red but stop before the second line = offence.

[dacouch]

megaphone said:

You won't get a red light fine if you didn't cross the junction. Stopping in a cycle box is a different offence, they where quite strict on it when the boxes first appeared, usually using a CCTV camera to fine. I've not heard of anyone getting a fine for ages, I've unintentionally stopped in them loads of times and see many others doing so.

It's called an "Advanced Stop Line" the offence of going through the red light is complete for a car if they pass through the first stop line (ASL) when the light is red.

[Chebble]

Thanks for the swift replies.

vonhosen said:

You don't commit an offence passing either line on amber, you commit an offence passing either line against red.

ie
If you pass the first line on amber but stop before the second line = no offence.
If you pass the first line against red but stop before the second line = offence.

If it did change to red before I stopped which I think is pretty unlikely, it would have been as I was straddling the first line, just before I came to a complete stop - my understanding of it is that the cameras take a couple of pictures, so I'll just have to wait 14 days to be positive. I'm fairly sure I managed to stop everything in time, but can't be certain.

Just how bright are the flashes anyway? Noticeable on a sunny afternoon?

[herewego]

Surely it's an offence to be stopped in a cycle box isn't it?

[eybic]

I'd say you would be unlikely to miss the flashes unless you have no rear vision in your car.

[speedking31]

herewego said:

Surely it's an offence to be stopped in a cycle box isn't it?

the MET says

If the traffic light changes from green to amber and you cannot safely stop before the first stop line, you may cross the line but must stop before the second stop line (Highway Code rule 178).

Myth: There’s a car in the ASL box - the driver must have committed an offence.

[herewego]

speedking31 said:

herewego said:

Surely it's an offence to be stopped in a cycle box isn't it?

the MET says

If the traffic light changes from green to amber and you cannot safely stop before the first stop line, you may cross the line but must stop before the second stop line (Highway Code rule 178).

Myth: There’s a car in the ASL box - the driver must have committed an offence.

Thanks

[Chebble]

Thanks for the replies.

I was in my Girlfriends Fiesta, so good visibility, plus I checked my mirrors as soon I'd stopped to make sure nobody was going to plough into me. Good to know that it would be obvious.

Nevertheless, I'll update the thread regardless of the outcome for anyone who may end up in a similar position.

[PF62]

speedking31 said:

herewego said:

Surely it's an offence to be stopped in a cycle box isn't it?

the MET says

If the traffic light changes from green to amber and you cannot safely stop before the first stop line, you may cross the line but must stop before the second stop line (Highway Code rule 178).

Myth: There’s a car in the ASL box - the driver must have committed an offence.

It is just two stop lines for one set of lights, but with the first stop line not going completely to the kerb and having a cycle lane access to it on the left, so cyclists can pass the first stop line without breaking the law (yes I know, as if that it going to bother most cyclists).

The traffic signals apply to each line, so even if you have passed over the first one, if the lights go red before you have fully passed over both then you have to stop.

One of the TV cop series a while back had someone getting done for exactly that. The cop told them that although they passed the first line on green/amber, and their front wheels passed the second line before it went red, their rear wheels passed over the second stop line whilst the lights were red, so they broke the law and got a ticket.

[creampuff]

PF62 said:

It is just two stop lines for one set of lights, but with the first stop line not going completely to the kerb and having a cycle lane access to it on the left, so cyclists can pass the first stop line without breaking the law (yes I know, as if that it going to bother most cyclists).

I ask this question every year or so, but nobody ever seems to know the answer. It's been about a year so here we go again:

Bicycle lanes with broken lines are advisory only. So any vehicle can drive in them.

The advanced stop line usually extends only to around 4 feet away from the kerb, so bicycles do not cross the solid advanced stop line when entering from the bicycle lane.

So - if a motorcycle were using the bicycle lane (remember broken line bicycle lanes are only advisory), the motorcycle could enter the bicycle box without crossing the advance stop line, by using the bicycle lane.

If a motorcycle rider entered the bicycle box while the light is red, by entering via the cycle lane and therefore not crossing the solid advance stop line which does not extend to the kerb and the motorcycle rider did stop in the bicycle box before crossing the final stop line, is any offence committed?

[vonhosen]

creampuff said:

PF62 said:

It is just two stop lines for one set of lights, but with the first stop line not going completely to the kerb and having a cycle lane access to it on the left, so cyclists can pass the first stop line without breaking the law (yes I know, as if that it going to bother most cyclists).

I ask this question every year or so, but nobody ever seems to know the answer. It's been about a year so here we go again:

Bicycle lanes with broken lines are advisory only. So any vehicle can drive in them.

The advanced stop line usually extends only to around 4 feet away from the kerb, so bicycles do not cross the solid advanced stop line when entering from the bicycle lane.

So - if a motorcycle were using the bicycle lane (remember broken line bicycle lanes are only advisory), the motorcycle could enter the bicycle box without crossing the advance stop line, by using the bicycle lane.

If a motorcycle rider entered the bicycle box while the light is red, by entering via the cycle lane and therefore not crossing the solid advance stop line which does not extend to the kerb and the motorcycle rider did stop in the bicycle box before crossing the final stop line, is any offence committed?

The actual offence is not crossing the stop line, it's for vehicular traffic proceeding beyond the stop line, so even if you are to the side of the actual line you still commit the offence because you have proceeded beyond the line when the light was showing red.

The exemption is for a pedal cycle to proceed beyond the line using the cycle lane.

[creampuff]

vonhosen said:

The actual offence is not crossing the stop line, it's for vehicular traffic proceeding beyond the stop line, so even if you are to the side of the actual line you still commit the offence because you have proceeded beyond the line when the light was showing red.

The exemption is for a pedal cycle to proceed beyond the line using the cycle lane.

Thanks.... do you have a linkey for the legislation?

[vonhosen]

Look for 'The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002'

Reg 36 & 43 are pertinent.

[speedking31]

PF62 said:

... their rear wheels passed over the second stop line whilst the lights were red, so they broke the law and got a ticket.

Nonsense. They must catch a lot of artics then.

[SickAsAParrot]

Most of the ASL's around here have worn away to the point of virtual invisibility, I assume that renders them null and void?

[robbyd]

When these boxes came in they effectively shortened the stopping distance by 4m or so.

The lights stayed in the same position but the stop line went back.

Unless the lights were adjusted to spend more time on amber, it's quite reasonable to end up nose in the cycle box, rather than go through on amber or do a hard stop.

[Cliftonite]

speedking31 said:

PF62 said:

... their rear wheels passed over the second stop line whilst the lights were red, so they broke the law and got a ticket.

Nonsense. They must catch a lot of artics then.

Every part of the vehicle needs to pass over the line before the light turns red. The law is an ass. Drivers of said artics (and buses, caravans etc.) rely on application of common sense. A risky business, that!

[Slaav]

speedking31 said:

url=http://content.met.police.uk/Article/Advanced-Stop-Lines/1400018009433/1400018009433]the MET says[/url]

If the traffic light changes from green to amber and you cannot safely stop before the first stop line, you may cross the line but must stop before the second stop line (Highway Code rule 178).

Myth: There’s a car in the ASL box - the driver must have committed an offence.

Everybody should try driving in London and just wait and see the vitriol when you end up in these ASL boxes or simply straddling pedestrian crossings on a red light - you could be mistaken for thinking you have eaten somebody's new born child!!! Tw4ts....

And as above, it is perfectly OK to find yourself in an ASL box in many circumstances