Issue with missing purchase from Amazon - advice required.

[Neil H]

I would have just sent my passport/ utility bill and made 'Sarah' my point of contact. Once they see that you are legit, their attitude will no doubt change.

Although you are in the right, trying to get them to do the ‘right thing’ is not going to work against company like Amazon. Jump through the hoops, get the issue sorted and then write your complaints afterwards.

Or, if you want your account closed and to never be able to use Amazon again, just let Amex do the chargeback for you.

[Cotty]

shopper150 said:

If Amazon want to go to the Police, they should.
Just because a private company decides that I should go to the Police, doesn't mean it's right and doesn't mean that I should be obliged to.
If they want to compensate me for doing their admin, then I will consider it.

Why would Amazon go to the police. They do not own the TV. As far as they are concerned they have a clean receipt and the loss did not occur whilst in their care, custody and control.

[essayer]

Cotty said:

Why would Amazon go to the police. They do not own the TV. As far as they are concerned they have a clean receipt and the loss did not occur whilst in their care, custody and control.

The TV has gone missing before it was handed over to the customer, therefore it's Amazon's problem.

[Cotty]

essayer said:

The TV has gone missing before it was handed over to the customer, therefore it's Amazon's problem.

No Amazon believe the TV has been delivered as the OP stated in his first post.

shopper150 said:

Tracking states it was delivered by Hermes at 17:42 on Tuesday.

[Beefmeister]

Cotty said:

poing said:

Lets go over the conversation to 101:
OP: Hi, I'd like to report a theft.
101: Where did this theft happen?
OP: I've no idea.
101: When did this theft happen?
OP: I've no idea.
101: Can you please give more info?
OP: I ordered a TV from Amazon, it didn't arrive and I have CCTV to prove it.
101: So how is this theft?
OP: No idea but Amazon said I had to report it.
101: I'm sorry but an item has to be in your possession before it can be stolen from you, as such no crime has occurred. Have a nice day.

That is not correct.
For example a jeweller can insure inbound shipments. So if they purchased some watches and they are stolen in transit they can claim under their policy, even though they never physically took possession. I have had claims paid on that basis many times.

Exactly. You have purchased the item therefore you own it. So it can be stolen from you.

[poing]

Beefmeister said:

Cotty said:

poing said:

Lets go over the conversation to 101:
OP: Hi, I'd like to report a theft.
101: Where did this theft happen?
OP: I've no idea.
101: When did this theft happen?
OP: I've no idea.
101: Can you please give more info?
OP: I ordered a TV from Amazon, it didn't arrive and I have CCTV to prove it.
101: So how is this theft?
OP: No idea but Amazon said I had to report it.
101: I'm sorry but an item has to be in your possession before it can be stolen from you, as such no crime has occurred. Have a nice day.

That is not correct.
For example a jeweller can insure inbound shipments. So if they purchased some watches and they are stolen in transit they can claim under their policy, even though they never physically took possession. I have had claims paid on that basis many times.

Exactly. You have purchased the item therefore you own it. So it can be stolen from you.

No, it can only be stolen once you have physical possession of it. If it's stolen in transit then that's the problem for the courier and the sender. If the OP had arranged insurance on the delivery of this purchase then he could claim from that but he didn't and didn't have to, Amazon have that responsibility in this case as they employ the courier. The OP can prove he didn't have it from the CCTV.

[Sheepshanks]

poing said:

No, it can only be stolen once you have physical possession of it. If it's stolen in transit then that's the problem for the courier and the sender. If the OP had arranged insurance on the delivery of this purchase then he could claim from that but he didn't and didn't have to, Amazon have that responsibility in this case as they employ the courier. The OP can prove he didn't have it from the CCTV.

I don't think it's going to help to get overly pedantic. I'd be surprised if you can't report a theft from someone else.

Just call and say your telly's been nicked while in transit or after delivery to an unknown place and get a crime reference number. You could probably call three different people about this and get three answers and if it gets messy then so be it, but at least you've tried.

[Willhire89]

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

[shopper150]

Willhire89 said:

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

Have you read the thread?
Resolution was chargeback
Also take note of the confusing road name and the nearby industrial estates that delivery drivers often go to in error.

[Willhire89]

shopper150 said:

Willhire89 said:

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

Have you read the thread?
Resolution was chargeback
Also take note of the confusing road name and the nearby industrial estates that delivery drivers often go to in error.

So if that worked last time (not that you ever came back to confirm that you had successfully utilised that advice) being familiar with how it works why do you need the same advice a second time??

[GetCarter]

shopper150 said:

Willhire89 said:

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

Have you read the thread?
Resolution was chargeback
Also take note of the confusing road name and the nearby industrial estates that delivery drivers often go to in error.

You seem to be very unlucky for a shopper. Why the handle?

[shopper150]

Willhire89 said:

shopper150 said:

Willhire89 said:

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

Have you read the thread?
Resolution was chargeback
Also take note of the confusing road name and the nearby industrial estates that delivery drivers often go to in error.

So if that worked last time (not that you ever came back to confirm that you had successfully utilised that advice) being familiar with how it works why do you need the same advice a second time??

Last time was Visa Debit card.
This time is AMEX.
Values aren't the same, I've approximated the values.

Also, another reason for this thread is so communicate how Amazon are dealing with this. And I like discussing these types of things on forums.

I hope that's OK with you?

[shopper150]

GetCarter said:

shopper150 said:

Willhire89 said:

OP - what was the resolution the last time this happened to you:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Same value too?

Have you read the thread?
Resolution was chargeback
Also take note of the confusing road name and the nearby industrial estates that delivery drivers often go to in error.

You seem to be very unlucky for a shopper. Why the handle?

Haha. The handle is just random to be honest.
I order a lot of IT gear, every week. I wouldn't say I'm unlucky, most deliveries are fine. Especially with mainstream couriers (UPS, DHL, etc).
Two failures have been Yodel & Hermes.

[4x4Tyke]

Lol, good catch, a quick look at his posting history has chancer written all over it, pumping bitcoin, passing off Gambian coins as 50p pieces and more.

[shopper150]

4x4Tyke said:

Lol, good catch, a quick look at his posting history has chancer written all over it, pumping bitcoin, passing off Gambian coins as 50p pieces and more.

st. I didn't think I'd get busted that quickly. I hope Amazon & eBuyer aren't reading my posts!

Where is the best place to sell a LG 55inch TV? Quick sale, cash only.

Edited by shopper150 on Friday 26th August 19:04

[Cotty]

poing said:

No, it can only be stolen once you have physical possession of it. If it's stolen in transit then that's the problem for the courier and the sender. If the OP had arranged insurance on the delivery of this purchase then he could claim from that but he didn't and didn't have to, Amazon have that responsibility in this case as they employ the courier. The OP can prove he didn't have it from the CCTV.

Sorry but these two statements are contradicting themselves.

If the item can only be stolen once you have physical possession of it, how can you take a policy out for the transit and claim before you take physical possession of it?

I work in insurance claims and have dealt with multiple transit losses. From Amazon's point of view they did not have possession of the item when the alleged theft occurred. They have a tracking record from the shipper that that states the item was delivered. The reluctance of the OP to file the loss of their property with the police would sound alarm bells. Or it may just be a requirement of them to get a police crime number before proceeding.

The other option would be to see if the OP's household policy covers items outside of the home. His own insurers may cover the item, once they settle the rights of subrogation would transfer to them and they could try to subrogate against the shipper. However if no insurance was purchased then any claim would be limited to the shippers terms and conditions, which I would assume would be the British International Freight Association (BIFA) under which they would only be liable for 2 special drawing rights per kg, which wouldn't be worth pursuing. Personally I would go the Amazon route after specking to the police.

[Oakey]

How can the OP report the theft of something he was never in possession to begin with, he has no proof the TV ever even existed! What info can he give them? The CCTV footage of delivery driver that never arrived? That'll be helpful. They'll tell him it's a civil matter and to take it up with Amazon.

[Cotty]

Oakey said:

How can the OP report the theft of something he was never in possession to begin with, he has no proof the TV ever even existed! What info can he give them? The CCTV footage of delivery driver that never arrived? That'll be helpful. They'll tell him it's a civil matter and to take it up with Amazon.

The definition of possession is "the state of having, owning, or controlling something". His bank will be able to show that funds were transferred from his account to the company he purchased the TV from. They would have issued a receipt confirming the purchase, he now owns that TV.

If he owns something and it is stolen, he is well within his rights to report the theft of his property. I would gladly argue that point with an underwriter and have the claim settled.

Edited by Cotty on Friday 26th August 20:54

[Pachydermus]

I'll just leave THIS here.

[Oakey]

Cotty said:

The definition of possession is "the state of having, owning, or controlling something". His bank will be able to show that funds were transferred from his account to the company he purchased the TV from. They would have issued a receipt confirming the purchase, he now owns that TV.

If he owns something and it is stolen, he is well within his rights to report the theft of his property. I would gladly argue that point with an underwriter and have the claim settled.

Edited by Cotty on Friday 26th August 20:54

He's never owned it, it's not his property. Right now he's just someone who's been relieved of £800 for nothing.

If the courier has nicked it that's Amazon's problem, they're the ones with a contract with the courier, Amazon is their customer not the OP.