Issue with missing purchase from Amazon - advice required.

[All that jazz]

Oakey said:

Cotty said:

It does not matter whether they take is seriously or not. The person dealing with the claim just needs the crime number.

I don't have to agree or disagree with the procedures the person has to deal with. My job is to get the claim paid.

He won't get a crime number because as far as the police are concerned this is a civil matter. His delivery never turned up, where's the crime? He has proof it was delivered elsewhere but they won't tell him to who or where. Until someone, either Amazon or the courier, establishes that the item was diverted elsewhere and not mistakenly delivered to the wrong address then how do they know it's stolen?

Indeed. Personally if it were me and having read Amazon's response I would sit back and let Amex deal with it now.

[V8OW]

Can't you just ring the courier company and ask them where they've delivered it?

If you say there's a similar business address to yours that deliveries have been mixed up with in the past why not pop over there and ask if they've got it.

It's probably sat in some office reception.

[Sheepshanks]

shopper150 said:

So what they are actually saying is that 'if' I believe it has been stolen, I may wish to contact the local police.
So they are forcing me to tell the police that I believe it's stolen (a lie). I have no evidence to say it's been stolen. They won't provide a proof of delivery (which is nearly always a signature).
If I don't lie to the Police, they won't help.

How is that a lie - If it hasn't been stolen then what do you think has happened to it?

[shopper150]

Sheepshanks said:

shopper150 said:

So what they are actually saying is that 'if' I believe it has been stolen, I may wish to contact the local police.
So they are forcing me to tell the police that I believe it's stolen (a lie). I have no evidence to say it's been stolen. They won't provide a proof of delivery (which is nearly always a signature).
If I don't lie to the Police, they won't help.

How is that a lie - If it hasn't been stolen then what do you think has happened to it?

It is a lie. The facts are that Amazon have failed to deliver, they've used a third rate courier, they won't give me a proof of delivery and they want me to report this as a crime to the police. I don't think anything other than that.

Edited by shopper150 on Saturday 27th August 12:21

[shopper150]

Slightly off topic, but I remember reading years ago that Amazon banned whole blocks of flats and neighbourhoods from ordering from them because so many deliveries were not being received.

[Cotty]

shopper150 said:

It is a lie. The facts are that Amazon have failed to deliver. I don't think anything other than that.

Its your word against theirs. You say they have not delivered it, they say they have.

You can handle this two ways, you can say you will not assist Amazon and the situation will remain the same. Or you can comply with their requests and assist them in their investigation and get a replacement.

"Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently". I would say your situation matches that definition perfectly and the police will agree and provide a crime number, so it is not a lie to report it as stolen.

I could offer my assistance having worked in insurance claims for 30 years but you don't seem to want to help yourself.

[Sheepshanks]

shopper150 said:

It is a lie. The facts are that Amazon have failed to deliver, they've used a third rate courier, they won't give me a proof of delivery and they want me to report this as a crime to the police. I don't think anything other than that.

They have tracking information that shows it was delivered.

[motco]

If this saga presents the facts in their entirety and are as they have been told, then the founding principle of mail-order has been ignored. That is that your business can prosper only if the goods are delivered reliably, and without quibble if the delivery is a failure for whatever reason. Amazon simply cannot wash their hands of this because it is a breach of trust - no arguments! If, as I said, the facts are as presented...

[GetCarter]

Sheepshanks said:

They have tracking information that shows it was delivered.

But as we know, without a signature, that means nothing - I refer you to my earlier post. (It hadn't, though they said it had... it arrived 3 days later)

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 27th August 12:40

[shopper150]

Cotty said:

shopper150 said:

It is a lie. The facts are that Amazon have failed to deliver. I don't think anything other than that.

Its your word against theirs. You say they have not delivered it, they say they have.

You can handle this two ways, you can say you will not assist Amazon and the situation will remain the same. Or you can comply with their requests and assist them in their investigation and get a replacement.

"Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently". I would say your situation matches that definition perfectly and the police will agree and provide a crime number, so it is not a lie to report it as stolen.

I could offer my assistance having worked in insurance claims for 30 years but you don't seem to want to help yourself.

I appreciate you views and your assistance. Without meaning to appear like I'm on the attack, I'm just questioning a few things, or playing devil's advocate.

Where has this object been removed from? Who is the owner? I haven't even seen the object, or taken delivery or it. I am not dealing with an insurance claim. I am dealing with a retailer.

I know you're suggesting that I should just follow the procedure requested by Amazon. Would you be of the same opinion if you and I had conducted a private transaction, and I (as the seller) told you that it's been delivered, and you had the facts/evidence that I do? I suspect in that scenario, your issue would be directly with me as a seller and you would be worried/annoyed/frustrated with me as the seller as your contract with me. I'm sure you would go to the Police, but only because you would think that I have stolen from you.

Edited by shopper150 on Saturday 27th August 13:02

Edited by shopper150 on Saturday 27th August 13:04

Edited by shopper150 on Saturday 27th August 13:09

[shopper150]

GetCarter said:

Sheepshanks said:

They have tracking information that shows it was delivered.

But as we know, without a signature, that means nothing - I refer you to my earlier post. (It hadn't, though they said it had... it arrived 3 days later)

Edited by GetCarter on Saturday 27th August 12:40

Also, based on the information on the orders section of Amazon, it refers to a different town.

[Sheepshanks]

shopper150 said:

Without meaning to appear like I'm on the attack, I'm just questioning a few things, or playing devil's advocate.

Why though? Just report it. I don't know where you're getting the idea from that you'll be lying. Amazon reckon it was delivered but you haven't got it. Obvious conclusion is that the courier nicked it or left it at your premises and it was stolen.

Maybe the police will push back and refuse to record it - I doubt it though.

You may well have the same issue on the Amex chargeback.

[shopper150]

motco said:

If this saga presents the facts in their entirety and are as they have been told, then the founding principle of mail-order has been ignored. That is that your business can prosper only if the goods are delivered reliably, and without quibble if the delivery is a failure for whatever reason. Amazon simply cannot wash their hands of this because it is a breach of trust - no arguments! If, as I said, the facts are as presented...

Perhaps the only additional fact I can add is that I've had a few (maybe 2 or 3) late deliveries over the last 2 years. I have reported these and have had been given a complimentary one month extension to my Prime Membership.

[V8OW]

Phone the courier and tell them you're expecting a parcel. Explain that Amazon tracking shows it as delivered, but has a different address/town.

Ask them what they suggest you do. It might not be your responsibility to do this, but it seems like this will be the most efficient route if Amazon are reluctant to sort it.

[All that jazz]

V8OW said:

Phone the courier and tell them you're expecting a parcel. Explain that Amazon tracking shows it as delivered, but has a different address/town.

Worth a shot actually.

[Cotty]

shopper150 said:

I appreciate you views and your assistance. Without meaning to appear like I'm on the attack, I'm just questioning a few things, or playing devil's advocate.

Where has this object been removed from? Who is the owner? I haven't even seen the object, or taken delivery or it. I am not dealing with an insurance claim. I am dealing with a retailer.

You are over thinking this. You don't need to turn into a detective and work out who took it, from where and who has it. All you have to show is you did not receive it. You don't think you are dealing with an insurance claim, but you are claiming for a loss and someone is going to have to pay it, either Amazon as it falls within their deductible or their insurers.

shopper150 said:

I know you're suggesting that I should just follow the procedure requested by Amazon. Would you be of the same opinion if you and I had conducted a private transaction, and I (as the seller) told you that it's been delivered, and you had the facts/evidence that I do? I suspect in that scenario, your issue would be directly with me as a seller and you would be worried/annoyed/frustrated with me as the seller as your contract with me. I'm sure you would go to the Police, but only because you would think that I have stolen from you.

As I said above I don't need to prove who is right or wrong, I just have to provide an underwriter with enough evidence that a loss has occurred in order to get the claim paid. As a broker it is my job is to get claims paid.

[Tony 1234]

Think I'd just do as Amazon requests and it does seem strange the OP won't just do that it's so simple?

[V8RX7]

shopper150 said:

This is the email from Amazon:

We’re sorry to hear that you haven’t received your item from order #203-

We have fully investigated this matter with the carrier. Based on the results of our investigation, we won’t be able to provide a replacement/refund for this order at this time as the item was delivered.

If you believe the item has been stolen you may wish to contact your local police, if necessary, in order to pursue this matter further. If the issue isn't resolved after contacting local police please contact us again with the following information:

-Police Crime Report Number.
-Details of the station where the incident was reported.
-Name of the investigating officer.

So what they are actually saying is that 'if' I believe it has been stolen, I may wish to contact the local police.
So they are forcing me to tell the police that I believe it's stolen (a lie). I have no evidence to say it's been stolen. They won't provide a proof of delivery (which is nearly always a signature).
If I don't lie to the Police, they won't help.

Edited by shopper150 on Saturday 27th August 10:20

I haven't read all the thread but when I've been messed about by call centres I simply Email the CEO - they have teams of staff to handle complaints and so far I've always received a fast and satisfactory resolution.

[Oakey]

Sheepshanks said:

How is that a lie - If it hasn't been stolen then what do you think has happened to it?

Could have been a cock up at the distribution centre.

Could have been a cock up in transit.

Could have simply been delivered to the wrong address.

Stolen isn't the only scenario, Amazon and couriers aren't infallible.

[Sheepshanks]

Oakey said:

Sheepshanks said:

How is that a lie - If it hasn't been stolen then what do you think has happened to it?

Could have been a cock up at the distribution centre.

Could have been a cock up in transit.

Could have simply been delivered to the wrong address.

Stolen isn't the only scenario, Amazon and couriers aren't infallible.

You're over-thinking it now. It's perfectly reasonable for the OP to take Amazon's assurance that it has been delivered at face value. If he hasn't got it, then it must have been stolen.