Issue with missing purchase from Amazon - advice required.

[Nickyboy]

egor110 said:

What's your experience of yodel nickyboy ?

One of the places i deliver to ( postie) is a mile long dead end lane , on saturday it looked like someone had fly tiped down there but it was yodel paracels dumped at the bottom of driveways , left in front of doors with no effort made to even hide them from view.

One of the driveways has a wheely bin just for hiding parcels but the lazy fker couldn't even be assed to put them in there just left right on the edge of the driveway totally in view.

I've not had a particularly bad experience with Yodel however they do seem to be extremely lazy, i have a parcel box behind my gate which is next to my front door, note on the door states this is where to leave parcels. Only Yodel have difficulty in actually turning the handle to open the gate and launch them over it instead. Of the times they have managed to open it they've never left pkgs in the box but on top of it open to the elements. Seems they simply can't be bothered. Thankfully nothing has even been damaged other than getting soaked in the rain but wasn't anything that mattered if it got wet (backpack)

I do notice doing my own deliveries packages left by other couriers, some left in full view, some are hidden. Yodel/Hermes are the most common. Seems to depend on the driver as to how and where they are left.

One guy i go to regularly has a big note on his door saying to leave in the shed, shed is always open. One day i went to leave as normal only to find 2 big boxes in front of the door from Interlink soaking wet, obv couldn't be bothered to turn the handle and put inside the empty shed. I obliged and put them in the shed along with mine so they at least wouldn't get any wetter.

[hairyben]

Nickyboy said:

However, OP you are being an awkward tt. Yes you shouldn't have to chase around but it's not going to take week of your life, spend an hour or so doing what they are asking and you could have it sorted quickly. A chargeback could take a long time

Dont see whats wrong with his stance. If they let him buy a telly without a passport why should they need it to work out how they lost the telly? The fault lies with them to work out what theyve done with it and/or fulfill their contract, its not for him to audition for his innocence in their eyes and its digusting they expect him to. And like he says, if they cant take care of an 800 quid telly whats the security of his passport particulars to them? I'm even cagey about who gets my birthdate now when random people/sites want it - as its ID sensitive info.

[CaptainSensib1e]

shopper150 said:

I have tried around 7 or 8 times now. I don't think it will make a difference as I have escalated it to various managers etc.
I actually need that TV for a project, I'm thinking ably reordering it from Amazon just to see what happens!

I've just had a TV delivered from Currys. Thye were cheaper than Amazon, and you could choose the delivery day (including a Saturday). It arrived on a big Curry's van, so you can have a bit more confidence that the retailer has accountability for delivery.

As someone said earlier, Amazon a great for smaller items, but I'd use a dedicated retialer for anything of higher value.

[chris watton]

I have put in a complaint about Amazon Logistics. I have had three parcels not delivered, even though it says they were in the space of as many weeks.

The first time was when I had a card through the door (even though I am always in as I work from home - and the doorbell is very loud) stating that I wasn't in and it was left with a house number that does not exist. (A neighbour had exactly the same problem that day, she was in, too)

The second time was when I received only half my order, the items were supposed to be in the same box, but I realised too late it had already been (very carefully opened and closed back up) and my blu ray box set missing.

The third was today. I had an email telling me they delivered a book through my letterbox, and they didn't. for one thing, the dimensions of the book are too big for it to fit through, plus packaging. Plus, I know when they've been as they always leave my gate open!

It has now got to the point where I now have a 50/50 chance of receiving my orders if Amazon Logistics are used. I hope they look into this properly, as it has really dented my faith in Amazon (member since 2000)

Am peeved about the last order, even though I have been reimbursed the £11 on the second hand book, the same book is now over £30 on Amazon, second hand!

Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 30th August 21:45

[stevensdrs]

Have an issue myself today with Amazon logistics. Tracking information shows that my parcel was hand delivered to me at 16:10 today. No it wasn't as no one has been near my house today. Phone call to Amazon and the guy tells me that sometimes their delivery people block scan the items and deliver them later, up to 10pm.
Really, what is the point of the tracking info then?!
I doubt it will come now and am waiting for a return call from Amazon to arrange another one.
It doesn't inspire me to order anything valuable from them anymore.

[shopper150]

So here is the email from Amazon requesting a police report:

[i]Hello Mr. x,

My name is Sarah and I'm part of the management team at Amazon.co.uk.

I was advised that you wanted a call back from a manager about your order # 203-X.

I tried to contact you on 077X, the number provided to me bu the last associate, on the 20th of August a 3:55 p.m., but I was unable to reach you so I left a message on your answer phone.

I can see that you were emailed this afternoon about this order. The information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time.

As my colleague previously mentioned, we have fully investigated this matter with the carrier and we won’t be able to provide a replacement/refund for this order at this time as the item was delivered.

If you believe the item has been stolen you may wish to contact your local police, if necessary, in order to pursue this matter further. If the issue isn't resolved after contacting local police please contact us again with the following information:

-Police Crime Report Number.
-Details of the station where the incident was reported.
-Name of the investigating officer.

We look forward to seeing you again soon.

Warmest regards,

Sarah H.
Amazon.co.uk
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company[/i]

So I spend almost an hour on the phone to 101, to report this 'theft' (35 mins waiting in the cue to be connected to the relevant department).
The nice lady I got through to was very good, she didn't see why this was a Police matter, but was happy to log the details for me and give me the reference number.
I called Amazon back with the three pieces of information they asked for (as listed above).
The operative refused to take the details as they require a 'scanned copy of the police report"
So they have now moved the goal posts and want me to get an original copy of a police report detailing the above information. I haven't asked 101 if they will be able to post this to me, but I suspect I may have to pop into a police station to get this now if I wish to progress down this route.

[hairyben]

shopper150 said:

So here is the email from Amazon requesting a police report:

[i]Hello Mr. x,

My name is Sarah and I'm part of the management team at Amazon.co.uk.

I was advised that you wanted a call back from a manager about your order # 203-X.

I tried to contact you on 077X, the number provided to me bu the last associate, on the 20th of August a 3:55 p.m., but I was unable to reach you so I left a message on your answer phone.

I can see that you were emailed this afternoon about this order. The information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time.

As my colleague previously mentioned, we have fully investigated this matter with the carrier and we won’t be able to provide a replacement/refund for this order at this time as the item was delivered.

If you believe the item has been stolen you may wish to contact your local police, if necessary, in order to pursue this matter further. If the issue isn't resolved after contacting local police please contact us again with the following information:

-Police Crime Report Number.
-Details of the station where the incident was reported.
-Name of the investigating officer.

We look forward to seeing you again soon.

Warmest regards,

Sarah H.
Amazon.co.uk
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company[/i]

So I spend almost an hour on the phone to 101, to report this 'theft' (35 mins waiting in the cue to be connected to the relevant department).
The nice lady I got through to was very good, she didn't see why this was a Police matter, but was happy to log the details for me and give me the reference number.
I called Amazon back with the three pieces of information they asked for (as listed above).
The operative refused to take the details as they require a 'scanned copy of the police report"
So they have now moved the goal posts and want me to get an original copy of a police report detailing the above information. I haven't asked 101 if they will be able to post this to me, but I suspect I may have to pop into a police station to get this now if I wish to progress down this route.

dunno why you're bothering mate. it's not for you to jump through hoops and you should recognise such tactics as avoidance of their obligations, not precursor to them. The more you jump through hoops the more they think you're a tt who can be pushed around and not refunded is the mentality of these people. The following usually gets a result:

"dear amazon person.

This item I have paid for has not been received, please deliver the item or refund my purchase, if I do not have the item or my money refunded within 3 working days I will be instructing my card provider to reclaim my funds without further notice."

[All that jazz]

shopper150 said:

So here is the email from Amazon requesting a police report:

[i]Hello Mr. x,

My name is Sarah and I'm part of the management team at Amazon.co.uk.

I was advised that you wanted a call back from a manager about your order # 203-X.

I tried to contact you on 077X, the number provided to me bu the last associate, on the 20th of August a 3:55 p.m., but I was unable to reach you so I left a message on your answer phone.

I can see that you were emailed this afternoon about this order. The information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time.

As my colleague previously mentioned, we have fully investigated this matter with the carrier and we won’t be able to provide a replacement/refund for this order at this time as the item was delivered.

If you believe the item has been stolen you may wish to contact your local police, if necessary, in order to pursue this matter further. If the issue isn't resolved after contacting local police please contact us again with the following information:

-Police Crime Report Number.
-Details of the station where the incident was reported.
-Name of the investigating officer.

We look forward to seeing you again soon.

Warmest regards,

Sarah H.
Amazon.co.uk
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company[/i]

So I spend almost an hour on the phone to 101, to report this 'theft' (35 mins waiting in the cue to be connected to the relevant department).
The nice lady I got through to was very good, she didn't see why this was a Police matter, but was happy to log the details for me and give me the reference number.
I called Amazon back with the three pieces of information they asked for (as listed above).
The operative refused to take the details as they require a 'scanned copy of the police report"
So they have now moved the goal posts and want me to get an original copy of a police report detailing the above information. I haven't asked 101 if they will be able to post this to me, but I suspect I may have to pop into a police station to get this now if I wish to progress down this route.

I think I would be drawing the line at this point. They're clearly taking the piss now, wanting you to do their work for them. Asking you to source the physical police crime report for them is wholly unacceptable to my mind.

Personally if it were me my next course of action would depend how arsed I could be, but it would be either of the following :

1. fk 'em, sit back and relax and let Amex sort it out.
2. Write a strongly worded letter to their Executive Office providing them with evidence that your telly was delivered to the wrong town along with offering evidence of your CCTV recording that no delivery was made to your property at the time and date stated and ask them to explain themselves. ie. not be fobbed off yet again with continual "well our computer says this, so you are clearly lying" when you are £800 out of pocket. In fact I would probably entitle the letter a Letter Before Action, giving them the legally required time frame to either refund you or provide the telly otherwise you will see them in court. If the evidence you claim to have of it being delivered to another address is correct then it's a guaranteed win but I doubt it will get that far as Amazon will quickly sit up and pull their collective fingers out of their arses when they have a threat of court sat on their desk.

Up to you whether you can be arsed with the hassle.

[essayer]

You are allowing them to frame this as "it was delivered".

It was not. It was never in your possession. You did not sign for it.

It went missing or was stolen during the time it was in Amazon's possession, or their courier's, it doesn't matter which.

EU law as implemented in the UK (and it applies to Amazon Luxembourg too)

CCR said:

43.—(1) A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2) The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made - and similarly in the new Consumer Rights Act 2015, I do not know which one to rely on when writing to Amazon (as you should) to demand the goods or your money back, you may need to seek advice on that one.

[shopper150]

hairyben said:

dunno why you're bothering mate. it's not for you to jump through hoops and you should recognise such tactics as avoidance of their obligations, not precursor to them. The more you jump through hoops the more they think you're a tt who can be pushed around and not refunded is the mentality of these people. The following usually gets a result:

"dear amazon person.

This item I have paid for has not been received, please deliver the item or refund my purchase, if I do not have the item or my money refunded within 3 working days I will be instructing my card provider to reclaim my funds without further notice."

I think they may close my account if the chargeback is successful. I was trying to avoid that. But their attitude stinks.

[hairyben]

shopper150 said:

I think they may close my account if the chargeback is successful. I was trying to avoid that. But their attitude stinks.

Obvious reply is so what if they did? Only use my amazon account for an annual probably £30 worth of kindle books these days, instead of £3000+ worth of kitchenware, blu rays, gifts workstuff etcetc, its not that hard to shop elsewhere although the all-in-one-place for easy lazy shopping cant be beaten.

[shopper150]

hairyben said:

Obvious reply is so what if they did? Only use my amazon account for an annual probably £30 worth of kindle books these days, instead of £3000+ worth of kitchenware, blu rays, gifts workstuff etcetc, its not that hard to shop elsewhere although the all-in-one-place for easy lazy shopping cant be beaten.

I agree. I do use them a lot more than you though.

I also use Prime Now a fair bit, which has been very handy.

[egor110]

essayer said:

You are allowing them to frame this as "it was delivered".

It was not. It was never in your possession. You did not sign for it.

It went missing or was stolen during the time it was in Amazon's possession, or their courier's, it doesn't matter which.

EU law as implemented in the UK (and it applies to Amazon Luxembourg too)

CCR said:

43.—(1) A sales contract is to be treated as including the following provisions as terms.

(2) The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of—

(a)the consumer, or

(b)a person identified by the consumer to take possession of the goods.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/made - and similarly in the new Consumer Rights Act 2015, I do not know which one to rely on when writing to Amazon (as you should) to demand the goods or your money back, you may need to seek advice on that one.

Why do you keep saying it wasn't delivered because it wasn't signed for?

A delivery with a signature costs amazon more and they don't always require a signature as it makes them more profit.

[Sheepshanks]

Did a bit of Googling and found a comment on another forum a few months back saying that it's now Amazon policy that queries on orders above £500 will be forwarded to the investigation department and they will ask for police report.

Also interesting thread here (Amazon seller demands Police report- dodgy buyers go away): https://sellercentral.amazon.co.uk/forums/message....

[essayer]

egor110 said:

Why do you keep saying it wasn't delivered because it wasn't signed for?

A delivery with a signature costs amazon more and they don't always require a signature as it makes them more profit.

CCR: "The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of .. the consumer"

I would guess for a TV that "physical possession" means that the OP has to be literally handed the item in question.

OP clearly stated he never received the item, therefore the item is still at Amazon's risk.

If Amazon want to contest this, then they should provide some evidence; perhaps OP's signature, or a witness statement from the delivery driver stating they went to the house in question at the specified time, perhaps backed up with logs from a tracker or similar ? Rather telling that, so far, they have not.

[hairyben]

shopper150 said:

hairyben said:

Obvious reply is so what if they did? Only use my amazon account for an annual probably £30 worth of kindle books these days, instead of £3000+ worth of kitchenware, blu rays, gifts workstuff etcetc, its not that hard to shop elsewhere although the all-in-one-place for easy lazy shopping cant be beaten.

I agree. I do use them a lot more than you though.

I also use Prime Now a fair bit, which has been very handy.

all the more reason to punish them rather than reward them for their attitude surely?

Like I say I was spending several grand a year, the wedding list (that the faulty item in dispute was on) was a chunk more, if you don't think you have the god given right as the customer for them to sort it out and just kind of make a limp pretence that they value your custom without having to get fruity with them then I despair.

Only reason I still use the kindle is because nothing else on the market really compares to it, and that still irritates me a little.

[egor110]

essayer said:

egor110 said:

Why do you keep saying it wasn't delivered because it wasn't signed for?

A delivery with a signature costs amazon more and they don't always require a signature as it makes them more profit.

CCR: "The goods remain at the trader’s risk until they come into the physical possession of .. the consumer"

I would guess for a TV that "physical possession" means that the OP has to be literally handed the item in question.

OP clearly stated he never received the item, therefore the item is still at Amazon's risk.

If Amazon want to contest this, then they should provide some evidence; perhaps OP's signature, or a witness statement from the delivery driver stating they went to the house in question at the specified time, perhaps backed up with logs from a tracker or similar ? Rather telling that, so far, they have not.

So how does this work then if goods are sent by say royal mail tracked delivery ?

Different delivery companies provide various options which may or may not require a signature at the door.

I deliver parcels daily , the fact some don't require a signature doesn't change that they have been delivered.

Re the fact it's a tv it makes no difference if you've ( amazon) have paid for the cheapest mode of delivery , you could post a tv 2nd class post , it wouldn't get tracked or a signature and very little insurance but that's the delivery mode you paid for.

Edited by egor110 on Wednesday 31st August 14:28

[essayer]

If you are business selling to consumers then I would suggest that you are responsible for the goods until the customer has taken possession. If it's a high value item then a signed for service should be used; Royal Mail Special Delivery for example.

If it's cheaper to use a particular courier just because they sling parcels over the gate and run away, then that's going to be a commercial decision for you to make, but I would say you'd be responsible for the item if the parcel was stolen off the doorstep before the customer got home. And rightly so.

[egor110]

essayer said:

If you are business selling to consumers then I would suggest that you are responsible for the goods until the customer has taken possession. If it's a high value item then a signed for service should be used; Royal Mail Special Delivery for example.

If it's cheaper to use a particular courier just because they sling parcels over the gate and run away, then that's going to be a commercial decision for you to make, but I would say you'd be responsible for the item if the parcel was stolen off the doorstep before the customer got home. And rightly so.

And I'd agree with you however what amazon are doing is ditching royal mail and using the cheapest possible delivery option and hoping when stuff goes missing they can just string the customer on until they give up as demonstrated in this thread.

[GetCarter]

egor110 said:

essayer said:

If you are business selling to consumers then I would suggest that you are responsible for the goods until the customer has taken possession. If it's a high value item then a signed for service should be used; Royal Mail Special Delivery for example.

If it's cheaper to use a particular courier just because they sling parcels over the gate and run away, then that's going to be a commercial decision for you to make, but I would say you'd be responsible for the item if the parcel was stolen off the doorstep before the customer got home. And rightly so.

And I'd agree with you however what amazon are doing is ditching royal mail and using the cheapest possible delivery option and hoping when stuff goes missing they can just string the customer on until they give up as demonstrated in this thread.

You may be right, but I don't know anyone that would just give up when an £800 TV was the missing item.

There is something else going on here that (so far) we are missing. Amazon are not completely stupid, so must have some sort of reason to suspect some wrongdoing. The postcode issue ... etc etc.

There will be a smoking gun at some stage. Interested to see where it was.