Lest we forget...

[Phud]

Who did you tour with? I want to go as my grandfather was western front 14-18.

Yes the gate is a destination, I have heard that it's unforgettable.

[Phud]

He was south wales borderers, I never got to ask him and by all accounts he never spoke, but looking at the honours, he went through the lot.

Thanks will look up the company.

[DaveGoddard]

This looks a fascinating and very sobering thread. I will be watching with interest.

[Norse_mann]

I was at the Menin gate on November 11th a few years ago, they had a pipe band who came down through the town from the Cloth Hall, Through the Gate and over the bridge. Then they just stopped playing. No wind down, not the end of the song, it just cut off.

One of the most moving things I have ever seen/heard.

I have done a few battlefield tours, and the Mr and Mrs Holt books are invaluable.

[Vaud]

don4l said:

Our guide was Col. Christopher Newbould. He was brilliant. I have a suspision that he owns the company, but I may be wrong.

He doesn't:

http://www.spiritofremembrance.com/page/meet-the-t...

[JakeT]

I did a tour in 2009 and loved it. Visited many sites and it really puts everything into perspective. I did it in Late October, and the Autumnal weather added to it a lot.

[nute]

Good topic and great post. The reasons behind why it all started are fascinating, and depressing as it really need not have happened. A World Undone is a great read and one of the best books I've read on the whole thing, in particular the state of the Austrohungarian empire and the Schlieffen plan which Germany saw as the only way of winning against the France/Russia alliance.

[Big Pants]

My great uncle died there, aged 19, as part of an artillery battalion. The war graves (and the endless - well, 3 summers long - pre-internet search for his during my childhood, led by my parents) have remained a profound influence on me. Every school child, adult, warmonger, gun owner, Donald Trump and believer that an isolationist political view will somehow leave GB immune to world conflict should be made to visit. Even now those acres of immaculately kept white gravestones give me pause for thought. We will never forget.

[knight]

I went to Ypres many years ago when I was at school, a small group went in the school minibus and stayed about 5 mins from the Menin gate, we went there every evening for 8pm.

Also went to Sanctuary wood and walked through the preserved trenches and even though it hadn't rained for a while, the bottom of the trench was just full of mud!

I will definitely go back one day with my daughter. This year we visited the Somme.

[Saddle bum]

Big Pants said:

My great uncle died there, aged 19, as part of an artillery battalion. The war graves (and the endless - well, 3 summers long - pre-internet search for his during my childhood, led by my parents) have remained a profound influence on me. Every school child, adult, warmonger, gun owner, Donald Trump and believer that an isolationist political view will somehow leave GB immune to world conflict should be made to visit. Even now those acres of immaculately kept white gravestones give me pause for thought. We will never forget.

I don't want to start an off-topic spat, but - gun owners do not start wars. History shows that those who are proficient with firearms are the first to be shipped off to the front.

In short - "If you don't trust me to have a gun in peacetime, don't try and give me one when a war starts".

In addition, I lost two uncles in WW1 and several members were severely injured in WW2.

[ClaphamGT3]

Always profoundly moving and humbling.

Given the infrastructure of enduring commemoration that was his brainchild, I always think that Fabian Ware's contribution to civilisation is somewhat overlooked.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_Ware

[Skyrat]

I'd like to go to France to see these memorials and graveyards. The Great War was a collosal waste of life, and these men and boys died for nothing. That only makes it more tragic in my view, and they need to be remembered.

[Eric Mc]

Skyrat said:

I'd like to go to France to see these memorials and graveyards. The Great War was a collosal waste of life, and these men and boys died for nothing. That only makes it more tragic in my view, and they need to be remembered.

Why did they die for nothing any more than in any other war?

WW1 seems to be held up as being "wasteful". ALL wars are wasteful - but sometimes there are no options but to fight.

[Evil Jack]

I would like to recommend Dan Carlin's six part 'Blueprint for Armageddon' podcast for a fascinating, sobering and yes, depressing account of the First World War.
Actually one of the best podcasts I've ever listened to...

http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-...

[Dicky Knee]

nute said:

Good topic and great post. The reasons behind why it all started are fascinating, and depressing as it really need not have happened. A World Undone is a great read and one of the best books I've read on the whole thing, in particular the state of the Austrohungarian empire and the Schlieffen plan which Germany saw as the only way of winning against the France/Russia alliance.

I have just finished reading A World Undone by GJ Meyer prompted by the Somme Anniversary in July. It is a great overview of the War and written by an American so although not unbiased it is more balanced view of the European situation. A few things struck me in particular (maybe because I haven't really done much reading on it since 'O' level history), the way Europe stumbled into the War, the huge French sacrifice and that Germany largely on its own came closer to winning than I knew. I'd recommend having a read of Meyer's book.

[irocfan]

languagetimothy said:

I just read Ben Eltons "time and time again" .. if you could go back and change one thing that shaped the complete future from the early 20th century onwards what would it be? the central character gets one opportunity to stop Franz Ferdinand being asasinated, so avoiding WW1 - things can only get better then cant they?.....

I don't think that stopping the assassination would stop WWI - it may put it back several months, even maybe a few years but the drive towards war was already gathering pace at that point.


Cracking thread BTW O/P

[FiF]

Just to say thanks to don4l for this.

[bluey1905]

I was in Ypres last Sunday and Monday, went to the Menin Gate ceremony both nights. I found it moving but uplifting that it happens every night of the year. We also went to Tyne Cot cemetery just outside Ypres, a very sobering experience.

[Skyrat]

Eric Mc said:

Skyrat said:

I'd like to go to France to see these memorials and graveyards. The Great War was a collosal waste of life, and these men and boys died for nothing. That only makes it more tragic in my view, and they need to be remembered.

Why did they die for nothing any more than in any other war?

WW1 seems to be held up as being "wasteful". ALL wars are wasteful - but sometimes there are no options but to fight.

Well compare it to WWII. We were fighting against the Nazis and fascism. There are times when there is no other way than to fight. WWI was most definitely not one of them.

[rednotdead]

I've spent a lot of time in the Salient, we tend to go for a couple of weeks a year - it is one of those places where everyone should spend some time. I know the area well but last year I did the Front Line Walk (100km in 3 days, route here: link) in aid of the Soldiers' Charity, which finished under the Menin Gate . That gave me a completely different perspective of the battlefields and was a very moving experience. It's one thing driving to each cemetery/memorial and paying your respects, I wasn't prepared for the emotion of actually walking the battlefields and the same routes the troops would have taken.

When walking you also realise how the high ground held by the Germans, whilst not that high, was such an advantage, you don't get that perspective from a car. We walked in October, luckily it was dry but there were some muddy fields and woods we went through. Modern fabrics make it easy, I can't imagine what hell the troops went through just to try and stay dry/warm, whilst being shelled, shot at, and having to advance into a hailstorm of machine gun fire, and living in a trench.