The reality of life for many MANY people.
Discussion
I agree but on the flip side:
They live in rented accommodation so if there is a problem they call their landlord who sorts it.
They laughed and messed about at school and had more fun than those studying.
They arent in jobs that are as mentally stressful, they work then go home and arent focused on work 24/7
They go to the pub after work
Their families live closer
A lot on here is about waitrose, your new jaguar, working flat out and worrying about what whisky to buy. Meanwhile youve studied every hour at school and uni, worked flat out, never had a gap year and now work as an accountant working 65 hours per week under stress for £50k pa so you can lease a golf r. Youre out of shape as youre too tired to go to the gym, hour wife is cheating on you with the local plasterer and youre stressed about the success of your children, savannah and oscar. You have a holiday to some posh skiing resort but your kids dont really know you and you moved 200 miles from family for the sake of your career and a nanny is bringing up gour children.
If i was in that position id work the day job and be a taxi driver at night or work in a bar and try to start up a side business like a window cleaner or try to learn a trade.
They live in rented accommodation so if there is a problem they call their landlord who sorts it.
They laughed and messed about at school and had more fun than those studying.
They arent in jobs that are as mentally stressful, they work then go home and arent focused on work 24/7
They go to the pub after work
Their families live closer
A lot on here is about waitrose, your new jaguar, working flat out and worrying about what whisky to buy. Meanwhile youve studied every hour at school and uni, worked flat out, never had a gap year and now work as an accountant working 65 hours per week under stress for £50k pa so you can lease a golf r. Youre out of shape as youre too tired to go to the gym, hour wife is cheating on you with the local plasterer and youre stressed about the success of your children, savannah and oscar. You have a holiday to some posh skiing resort but your kids dont really know you and you moved 200 miles from family for the sake of your career and a nanny is bringing up gour children.
If i was in that position id work the day job and be a taxi driver at night or work in a bar and try to start up a side business like a window cleaner or try to learn a trade.
DonkeyApple said:
Exactly. It's been quite pleasant reading a thread of this nature in the Lounge where more left wing views are discussed rather than shut down by the rabid loons in the NPE forum.
I'm not sure what his problem is but it does read like a thread from NP&e wherever you put it.Its riddled with management speak and language that forms no part of anything I encounter on a daily basis.
I'm totally baffled by people saying this is one of the worst threads in PH history.
All I've seen so far is a fairly polite and sensible discussion on an interesting topic.
Everyone has been quite civil and articulate. Well, apart from that squaddie chap earlier who resorted to quoting Danny Dyer using capital letters.
All I've seen so far is a fairly polite and sensible discussion on an interesting topic.
Everyone has been quite civil and articulate. Well, apart from that squaddie chap earlier who resorted to quoting Danny Dyer using capital letters.
Funkycoldribena said:
Its riddled with management speak and language that forms no part of anything I encounter on a daily basis.
Half Man Half Biscuit said:
So I’m lost in the fog
But I feel like a hundred thousand pounds
Because I ain’t got a job
Talking audio visual multimedia
Market forces in the workplace
Business management desktop consultancy
IBM ITA
It’s the Chief Executive, fresh from Reykjavik
Motivation relocation
Target achievement supervisory
Maximising your potential
Audit sales team interpersonal
Client data validation
Type fast accurate service customer
Human Resources
Finance development keyboard millennium
Full-time negotiator
5.1 WordPerfect applicant
Continued expansion
Systems purchase challenging environment
Candidate enthusiastic
Thriving driving flexible initiative
Enterprising innovation
Hands-on profile, hands off Angela
Temporary secretary
Drunk on Ferris Wheel McCartney Hogmanay
Organising and recruiting
Spreadsheets costing variance analysis
Field support communication
Direct powerful retail growth
You stick your input in, your output out
Co-ordinate your strategy and shake it all about
And oh oh-oh-oh, here’s the bottom line
I’ll not be taken on board at this present moment in time
But I feel like a hundred thousand pounds
Because I ain’t got a job
Talking audio visual multimedia
Market forces in the workplace
Business management desktop consultancy
IBM ITA
It’s the Chief Executive, fresh from Reykjavik
Motivation relocation
Target achievement supervisory
Maximising your potential
Audit sales team interpersonal
Client data validation
Type fast accurate service customer
Human Resources
Finance development keyboard millennium
Full-time negotiator
5.1 WordPerfect applicant
Continued expansion
Systems purchase challenging environment
Candidate enthusiastic
Thriving driving flexible initiative
Enterprising innovation
Hands-on profile, hands off Angela
Temporary secretary
Drunk on Ferris Wheel McCartney Hogmanay
Organising and recruiting
Spreadsheets costing variance analysis
Field support communication
Direct powerful retail growth
You stick your input in, your output out
Co-ordinate your strategy and shake it all about
And oh oh-oh-oh, here’s the bottom line
I’ll not be taken on board at this present moment in time
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As an example, perhaps the first man is not unpleasant but forgettable and keeps to himself. Meanwhile the second man is a bit more sociable and outgoing and becomes a known character on the factory floor, confident and decisive, becoming someone that people turn to for advice, and a higher up notices this natural skill and sees fit to promote him when a spot opens up because he can be of more value to the company as a manager than as a box filler. Or perhaps both men are equally skilled in the same people skills, and equally sociable, but by circumstance one happens to befriend the janitor and the other happens to befriend the manager. The manager becomes aware of his freind's natural skill set and is also in a position to do something about it. The janitor is not.
Or a third scenario where the first man is skilled but unsociable and the second man is fairly useless but extremely social. A brown-noser if you like. It's no good being the best in the world at something if nobody knows about it.
Some people feel that being promoted due purely to interpersonal skills is unfair and it gets labelled as nepotism. But while companies are still staffed with other humans and not robots, interpersonal skills are increasingly important the higher up the chain you go, and that's why they get promoted up.
Edited by OwenK on Thursday 20th October 19:36
anonymous said:
[redacted]
A lack of a sense of entitlement merely by clocking in!I interviewed the head of an industrial multinational the other day - literally rose from a lathe op to be the CEO. Some grumpers still at the lathes are b
hing no doubt. Life is like that and many UK people are like that - maybe that is why we don't really have a car industry any more...but Germany do... Seriously. Effort, application and skill generally do get rewarded. 'Why' is not rocket science!
TTwiggy said:
ClaphamGT3 said:
Having started my working life in the army, I've taken a bullet or two for people's Liberty too but having left to go into commerce I am now relatively rich. Where do I fit into your model?
Were you a Rupert though? When I left the RN after my five years of being called 'Sir' there were probably more doors open to me than there were to the average 'able' matelot.(how I ended up in such a crap job therefore remains a mystery).
Digga said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Its riddled with management speak and language that forms no part of anything I encounter on a daily basis.
Half Man Half Biscuit said:
So I’m lost in the fog
But I feel like a hundred thousand pounds
Because I ain’t got a job
Talking audio visual multimedia
Market forces in the workplace
Business management desktop consultancy
IBM ITA
It’s the Chief Executive, fresh from Reykjavik
Motivation relocation
Target achievement supervisory
Maximising your potential
Audit sales team interpersonal
Client data validation
Type fast accurate service customer
Human Resources
Finance development keyboard millennium
Full-time negotiator
5.1 WordPerfect applicant
Continued expansion
Systems purchase challenging environment
Candidate enthusiastic
Thriving driving flexible initiative
Enterprising innovation
Hands-on profile, hands off Angela
Temporary secretary
Drunk on Ferris Wheel McCartney Hogmanay
Organising and recruiting
Spreadsheets costing variance analysis
Field support communication
Direct powerful retail growth
You stick your input in, your output out
Co-ordinate your strategy and shake it all about
And oh oh-oh-oh, here’s the bottom line
I’ll not be taken on board at this present moment in time
But I feel like a hundred thousand pounds
Because I ain’t got a job
Talking audio visual multimedia
Market forces in the workplace
Business management desktop consultancy
IBM ITA
It’s the Chief Executive, fresh from Reykjavik
Motivation relocation
Target achievement supervisory
Maximising your potential
Audit sales team interpersonal
Client data validation
Type fast accurate service customer
Human Resources
Finance development keyboard millennium
Full-time negotiator
5.1 WordPerfect applicant
Continued expansion
Systems purchase challenging environment
Candidate enthusiastic
Thriving driving flexible initiative
Enterprising innovation
Hands-on profile, hands off Angela
Temporary secretary
Drunk on Ferris Wheel McCartney Hogmanay
Organising and recruiting
Spreadsheets costing variance analysis
Field support communication
Direct powerful retail growth
You stick your input in, your output out
Co-ordinate your strategy and shake it all about
And oh oh-oh-oh, here’s the bottom line
I’ll not be taken on board at this present moment in time
Wait a minute...
OwenK said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As an example, perhaps the first man is not unpleasant but forgettable and keeps to himself. Meanwhile the second man is a bit more sociable and outgoing and becomes a known character on the factory floor, confident and decisive, becoming someone that people turn to for advice, and a higher up notices this natural skill and sees fit to promote him when a spot opens up because he can be of more value to the company as a manager than as a box filler. Or perhaps both men are equally skilled in the same people skills, and equally sociable, but by circumstance one happens to befriend the janitor and the other happens to befriend the manager. The manager becomes aware of his freind's natural skill set and is also in a position to do something about it. The janitor is not.
Or a third scenario where the first man is skilled but unsociable and the second man is fairly useless but extremely social. A brown-noser if you like. It's no good being the best in the world at something if nobody knows about it.
Some people feel that being promoted due purely to interpersonal skills is unfair and it gets labelled as nepotism. But while companies are still staffed with other humans and not robots, interpersonal skills are increasingly important the higher up the chain you go, and that's why they get promoted up.
Edited by OwenK on Thursday 20th October 19:36
Both Scenario 2 and 3 are arse lickers
so the only way to get ahead in your view is to suckle at the anal teat of your manager and swallow whatever come through it ?
umm.. no thanks
Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 20th October 20:15
OwenK said:
Some people feel that being promoted due purely to interpersonal skills is unfair and it gets labelled as nepotism. But while companies are still staffed with other humans and not robots, interpersonal skills are increasingly important the higher up the chain you go, and that's why they get promoted up.
Probably one of the most accurate statements in this thread.I'll fully admit to being a 'brown-noser' or whatever you want to call it.
I'm now self employed, but previously I worked in housing for about 12 years after leaving Uni, and by the time I left, I was working for the 4th biggest housing provider in the UK and had worked my way up to a point were I pretty much spent many of my days in fairly top-level meetings with the directors and CEO. I was above 'middle management' if you want to call it that, and doing pretty well.
I managed this not because I'm the most intelligent guy around or exceptional at my job, but by adapting my attitude and behaviour to impress my managers. If I got invited out on a work night or invited for food and drinks with the management, I would always go, and I would always make a point of chatting to them, agreeing with them and becoming their 'mate'. I would try to be humorous, polite, and eager. If I was put upon to produce some work at short notice I would just smile and say 'no problem at all', instead of huffing and moaning about it. I would volunteer for things that others would try to avoid. I made sure that management liked me, and liked having me around.
During parts of my career I was tasked with managing small teams of staff, and it became apparent that one or two of them had an issue with being managed by a 30 year old, when they had spent the last 25 years 'slogging away' for the company and seemingly getting nowhere. What became clear to me was that these people were irritating, boring, unsociable, awkward, a stickler for rules, quiet or rude. Not all at the same time of course, but you get my point. They were passed by for promotion or any form of advancement because frankly, no one liked them. Or rather no one in senior management liked them.
You can shout and complain about the unfairness of this all you want, but it's just the reality in business and the workplace. Not everywhere or for every job, but quite widespread.
If you want to get on in your career, just suck it up and try to get on with those around you and above you, even if you dislike them.
When I started my first job, my boss told me one day "if you want to climb the ladder, learn to play golf". At the time I didn't think too much of it, but as the years of employment went past, it quickly became apparent what he meant.
NinjaPower said:
Probably one of the most accurate statements in this thread.
I'll fully admit to being a 'brown-noser' or whatever you want to call it.
I'm now self employed, but previously I worked in housing for about 12 years after leaving Uni, and by the time I left, I was working for the 4th biggest housing provider in the UK and had worked my way up to a point were I pretty much spent many of my days in fairly top-level meetings with the directors and CEO. I was above 'middle management' if you want to call it that, and doing pretty well.
I managed this not because I'm the most intelligent guy around or exceptional at my job, but by adapting my attitude and behaviour to impress my managers. If I got invited out on a work night or invited for food and drinks with the management, I would always go, and I would always make a point of chatting to them, agreeing with them and becoming their 'mate'. I would try to be humorous, polite, and eager. If I was put upon to produce some work at short notice I would just smile and say 'no problem at all', instead of huffing and moaning about it. I would volunteer for things that others would try to avoid. I made sure that management liked me, and liked having me around.
During parts of my career I was tasked with managing small teams of staff, and it became apparent that one or two of them had an issue with being managed by a 30 year old, when they had spent the last 25 years 'slogging away' for the company and seemingly getting nowhere. What became clear to me was that these people were irritating, boring, unsociable, awkward, a stickler for rules, quiet or rude. Not all at the same time of course, but you get my point. They were passed by for promotion or any form of advancement because frankly, no one liked them. Or rather no one in senior management liked them.
You can shout and complain about the unfairness of this all you want, but it's just the reality in business and the workplace. Not everywhere or for every job, but quite widespread.
If you want to get on in your career, just suck it up and try to get on with those around you and above you, even if you dislike them.
When I started my first job, my boss told me one day "if you want to climb the ladder, learn to play golf". At the time I didn't think too much of it, but as the years of employment went past, it quickly became apparent what he meant.
Each to their own but fI'll fully admit to being a 'brown-noser' or whatever you want to call it.
I'm now self employed, but previously I worked in housing for about 12 years after leaving Uni, and by the time I left, I was working for the 4th biggest housing provider in the UK and had worked my way up to a point were I pretty much spent many of my days in fairly top-level meetings with the directors and CEO. I was above 'middle management' if you want to call it that, and doing pretty well.
I managed this not because I'm the most intelligent guy around or exceptional at my job, but by adapting my attitude and behaviour to impress my managers. If I got invited out on a work night or invited for food and drinks with the management, I would always go, and I would always make a point of chatting to them, agreeing with them and becoming their 'mate'. I would try to be humorous, polite, and eager. If I was put upon to produce some work at short notice I would just smile and say 'no problem at all', instead of huffing and moaning about it. I would volunteer for things that others would try to avoid. I made sure that management liked me, and liked having me around.
During parts of my career I was tasked with managing small teams of staff, and it became apparent that one or two of them had an issue with being managed by a 30 year old, when they had spent the last 25 years 'slogging away' for the company and seemingly getting nowhere. What became clear to me was that these people were irritating, boring, unsociable, awkward, a stickler for rules, quiet or rude. Not all at the same time of course, but you get my point. They were passed by for promotion or any form of advancement because frankly, no one liked them. Or rather no one in senior management liked them.
You can shout and complain about the unfairness of this all you want, but it's just the reality in business and the workplace. Not everywhere or for every job, but quite widespread.
If you want to get on in your career, just suck it up and try to get on with those around you and above you, even if you dislike them.
When I started my first job, my boss told me one day "if you want to climb the ladder, learn to play golf". At the time I didn't think too much of it, but as the years of employment went past, it quickly became apparent what he meant.
k that.Go watch The Devils advocate.
SystemParanoia said:
JoeMarano said:
Each to their own but fk that.
+1k that.But it's important that people realise that their behaviour and social skills play a large role in their career.
SystemParanoia said:
Scenario 1 doesn't ever happen - instead you get more and more workload with no prospect of more money, you get the dangling carrot, but you never actually get to have a bite of it... this will continue until you get so fed-up that you end up leaving only to go through the cycle again somewhere else. nothing changes
Both Scenario 2 and 3 are arse lickers
so the only way to get ahead in your view is to suckle at the anal teat of your manager and swallow whatever come through it ?
umm.. no thanks
I've outlined 3 scenarios as to why person B might get further ahead than person A, you've dismissed one as unrealistic and the other two as not for you? Okey dokey, well enjoy your life of injustice and "career glass ceiling". I've been in scenario 1, they asked me to do more work for no extra pay but tried dangling that false carrot of it being good for my career, I said no thanks. Both Scenario 2 and 3 are arse lickers
so the only way to get ahead in your view is to suckle at the anal teat of your manager and swallow whatever come through it ?
umm.. no thanks
Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 20th October 20:15
When I wanted more money I negotiated with them first, they were unwilling to comply, so I left and went elsewhere. And 18 months later I'm back here again, same job as before, same colleagues, but guess what - more money and no more responsibilities.
If you accept more responsibility for no extra pay and an empty promise of something in the future, and you're not happy about this but bend over and take it anyway, you're a mug really.
You've got the wrong end of the stick on the last one anyway, people generally easily identify slimy yes-men and dislike them. There's a subtle difference between swallowing with a smile whatever s
t your boss chooses to dump on you, and being the person they come to trust and rely on to enact their will. If you choose to resent the second guy you're just holding yourself back.
Edited by OwenK on Thursday 20th October 21:00
Funkycoldribena said:
SystemParanoia said:
JoeMarano said:
Each to their own but fk that.
+1k that.Absolutely hideous reading that.
Vomit inducing.
People don't gibe you their respect because you're a nice guy. They offer it because you're willing to stand out, do things you're not comfortable with and push yourself to grow your self worth and your value to them
Brown nosing is just being swayed by each passing breeze and you don't have your own thoughts or opinions because you're too busy people pleasing to think on your own
Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff