The reality of life for many MANY people.

[giger]

Thankyou4calling said:

I'd consider myself to be a relatively stereotypical pistonheader.

Powerfully built, company director, opinionated and into cars, property, watches and food...

You make some valid and interesting points, but come on, with an opening statement like that your speak for about 1% of PH.

Sounds like you were having a Jerry Maguire moment!

[JoeMarano]

NinjaPower said:

It's entirely a matter of choice though isn't it? I don't expect everyone to want to take that approach to their job.

But it's important that people realise that their behaviour and social skills play a large role in their career.

I sort of respect your resolve. It's obviously getting you where you want to be so it's not a bad thing. It's just not something I necessarily agree with. That's life.

[anonymous-user]

Funkycoldribena said:

And another.
Absolutely hideous reading that.
Vomit inducing.

You make it sound terrible

But seriously, once you get past a certain point, it's all good really. Spending your days in meetings or at other companies discussing matters with colleagues rather than dealing with the public/customers, going out to lunches/dinners and drinks paid for by the business, reasonable expenses allowances, better pay, company Iphone and other tech provided to you etc

You get to deal with interesting stuff rather than just grafting over paperwork or other daily business.

[SystemParanoia]

OwenK said:

SystemParanoia said:

Scenario 1 doesn't ever happen - instead you get more and more workload with no prospect of more money, you get the dangling carrot, but you never actually get to have a bite of it... this will continue until you get so fed-up that you end up leaving only to go through the cycle again somewhere else. nothing changes

Both Scenario 2 and 3 are arse lickers

so the only way to get ahead in your view is to suckle at the anal teat of your manager and swallow whatever come through it ?

umm.. no thanks

Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 20th October 20:15

I've outlined 3 scenarios as to why person B might get further ahead than person A, you've dismissed one as unrealistic and the other two as not for you? Okey dokey, well enjoy your life of injustice and "career glass ceiling".

You've got the wrong end of the stick on the last one anyway, people generally easily identify slimy yes-men and dislike them. There's a subtle difference between swallowing with a smile whatever st your boss chooses to dump on you, and being the person they come to trust and rely on to enact their will.
If you choose to resent the second guy you're just holding yourself back.

Happy to get and do extra work...
just pay me extra for it, or give me time off in liew.

What actually happens is you get the extra work.. and then that same extra work keeps comming, and then suddenly its assumed that this is your normal workload and youre no longer given the option of not doing it.

the last corporate i worked for i started off on just 2 contracts... i naively allowed them to pile on the work to me thinking this will get me ahead. by the time i walked 3 years later i was looking after 7 contracts and 3 catering deals ( wtf.. we didnt even do catering ffs ) if it wasn't for my multitude of automation programs and scripts i created it would have been impossible for me to do.

I got no extra money, no extra recognition, no extra training, no promotion, nothing.
I refused to do the extra work stating the contracts i should be doing in my contract, and in response got pulled up in a disciplinary and forced to carry on doing all the extra work that was now "assumed" to be part of my work as i hadn't complained sooner.

so no, one bitten twice shy. If you want more from me.. pay me more, dont take the piss.

[Megaflow]

QuartzDad said:

Megaflow said:

Genuine question, have you got a link or paper which says why or provides another data source?

I ask because according to that we are at 96%!

It asks for net income, these things usually ask for gross (I put gross in first time round), I wonder if that's what is causing the surprise?

Ah, well spotted, I made the mistake of assuming it was gross. Funny isn't it, I know exactly what we earn gross, but I'd have to look what at my wife's net to work out the total net income.

[OwenK]

SystemParanoia said:

Happy to get and do extra work...
just pay me extra for it, or give me time off in liew.

What actually happens is you get the extra work.. and then that same extra work keeps comming, and then suddenly its assumed that this is your normal workload and youre no longer given the option of not doing it.

the last corporate i worked for i started off on just 2 contracts... i naively allowed them to pile on the work to me thinking this will get me ahead. by the time i walked 3 years later i was looking after 7 contracts and 3 catering deals ( wtf.. we didnt even do catering ffs ) if it wasn't for my multitude of automation programs and scripts i created it would have been impossible for me to do.

I got no extra money, no extra recognition, no extra training, no promotion, nothing.
I refused to do the extra work stating the contracts i should be doing in my contract, and in response got pulled up in a disciplinary and forced to carry on doing all the extra work that was now "assumed" to be part of my work as i hadn't complained sooner.

so no, one bitten twice shy. If you want more from me.. pay me more, dont take the piss.

As far as capitalism is concerned that's the attitude you should have had all along. We all start out naive like that, I only snapped out of it myself about two years ago.
I bet in future roles as soon as some extra work tries to get dumped on you, you make the deal 100% clear upfront, and it turns out everyone is happier that way. I know I do and it makes my relationship with my boss refreshingly transparent and honest.

[freshkid]

NinjaPower said:

I managed this not because I'm the most intelligent guy around or exceptional at my job, but by adapting my attitude and behaviour to impress my managers. If I got invited out on a work night or invited for food and drinks with the management, I would always go, and I would always make a point of chatting to them, agreeing with them and becoming their 'mate'.

Woah.

I'd love to read your CV.

[Funkycoldribena]

NinjaPower said:

You make it sound terrible

But seriously, once you get past a certain point, it's all good really. Spending your days in meetings or at other companies discussing matters with colleagues rather than dealing with the public/customers, going out to lunches/dinners and drinks paid for by the business, reasonable expenses allowances, better pay, company Iphone and other tech provided to you etc
E
You get to deal with interesting stuff rather than just grafting over paperwork or other daily business.

Nope,still sounds hideous.

[Megaflow]

AndrewCrown said:

Megaflow said:

boxxob said:

ThunderGuts said:

AndrewCrown said:

This made me think of this

https://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

Have a play...

That's interesting. I got 86%, which is surprising, very surprising.

It's highly misleading.

Genuine question, have you got a link or paper which says why or provides another data source?

I ask because according to that we are at 96%!

Yikes, perhaps I can answer that. I like a number of you were a little surprised at the results. So I did some digging.

This little calculator uses this data to drive it https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/househol... which in turn uses the ONS as a data source. The ONS derive their data from returns to the Monthly Wages and Salaries Survey (MWSS), a survey of 9,000 businesses covering 13.8 million employees.
Again from the ONS there are some 31.8 Million people employed in the UK. So its a more than a good sample....

There are some limitations... The MWSS does not measure the self employed (~ 15% of workforce) or businesses with less than 20 people. The self employed have a median wage of around £11k.. less than that of the employed. Like many PH'ers with their own profitable businesses > 20 People, their data probably isn't being captured in this thing.

I still think its thought provoking... and yes use net income...

I take stock in desiderata sometimes: If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Edited by AndrewCrown on Wednesday 19th October 23:08

Edited by AndrewCrown on Wednesday 19th October 23:20

Interesting. I just re did it based on an estimate of my wife's net and it still came out at 91%.

Don't get me wrong, I know we are doing ok, but I seriously had no idea we were that high up the scale.

[andy-xr]

freshkid said:

NinjaPower said:

I managed this not because I'm the most intelligent guy around or exceptional at my job, but by adapting my attitude and behaviour to impress my managers. If I got invited out on a work night or invited for food and drinks with the management, I would always go, and I would always make a point of chatting to them, agreeing with them and becoming their 'mate'.

Woah.

I'd love to read your CV.

It probably has Yes Man everywhrer

If you think that works for you and you're OK with it great.

I just don't think sucking that much corporate cock is healthy for self development

[DonkeyApple]

SystemParanoia said:

Happy to get and do extra work...
just pay me extra for it, or give me time off in liew.

What actually happens is you get the extra work.. and then that same extra work keeps comming, and then suddenly its assumed that this is your normal workload and youre no longer given the option of not doing it.

the last corporate i worked for i started off on just 2 contracts... i naively allowed them to pile on the work to me thinking this will get me ahead. by the time i walked 3 years later i was looking after 7 contracts and 3 catering deals ( wtf.. we didnt even do catering ffs ) if it wasn't for my multitude of automation programs and scripts i created it would have been impossible for me to do.

I got no extra money, no extra recognition, no extra training, no promotion, nothing.
I refused to do the extra work stating the contracts i should be doing in my contract, and in response got pulled up in a disciplinary and forced to carry on doing all the extra work that was now "assumed" to be part of my work as i hadn't complained sooner.

so no, one bitten twice shy. If you want more from me.. pay me more, dont take the piss.

The first thought that went through my mind when reading this is just why you didn't grab a few more contracts, bed down your personal relationship with them and the take them to a competitor or set up for yourself? Firms that load up staff without compensation are merely handing that person the opportunity of a lifetime. Combine that with your clear ability to automate large elements of the job (why did you take that to your company and not the competitor or use it yourself?).

And then thinking that being civil or socially smart is brown nosing. Well, I'm afraid every firm ends up employing the occasional bloke with that outlook and they are spotted quickly and easily and just shoved in a corner and almost instantly ruled out there and then. The people who thought 'fk that!' to the earlier post might find it interesting to think about why as smart people they just keep getting 'processed' by companies.

[anonymous-user]

freshkid said:

Woah.

I'd love to read your CV.

To be fair, my CV is ok.

Decent A levels, Uni Degree, a few good jobs, and an absolute stload of other qualifications and courses that I've done through work.

I think a few people took my post the wrong way.

I've put in the work and the hours, came up with good ideas, tried to do my best and produce results, but what has helped me move upwards is the liberal addition of social skills. That's the bit that people often fall down on or just don't want to do.

[SystemParanoia]

DonkeyApple said:

SystemParanoia said:

Happy to get and do extra work...
just pay me extra for it, or give me time off in liew.

What actually happens is you get the extra work.. and then that same extra work keeps comming, and then suddenly its assumed that this is your normal workload and youre no longer given the option of not doing it.

the last corporate i worked for i started off on just 2 contracts... i naively allowed them to pile on the work to me thinking this will get me ahead. by the time i walked 3 years later i was looking after 7 contracts and 3 catering deals ( wtf.. we didnt even do catering ffs ) if it wasn't for my multitude of automation programs and scripts i created it would have been impossible for me to do.

I got no extra money, no extra recognition, no extra training, no promotion, nothing.
I refused to do the extra work stating the contracts i should be doing in my contract, and in response got pulled up in a disciplinary and forced to carry on doing all the extra work that was now "assumed" to be part of my work as i hadn't complained sooner.

so no, one bitten twice shy. If you want more from me.. pay me more, dont take the piss.

The first thought that went through my mind when reading this is just why you didn't grab a few more contracts, bed down your personal relationship with them and the take them to a competitor or set up for yourself? Firms that load up staff without compensation are merely handing that person the opportunity of a lifetime. Combine that with your clear ability to automate large elements of the job (why did you take that to your company and not the competitor or use it yourself?).

And then thinking that being civil or socially smart is brown nosing. Well, I'm afraid every firm ends up employing the occasional bloke with that outlook and they are spotted quickly and easily and just shoved in a corner and almost instantly ruled out there and then. The people who thought 'fk that!' to the earlier post might find it interesting to think about why as smart people they just keep getting 'processed' by companies.

Oh i didnt let them have the software i created, it stayed on my encrypted usb stick at all times that i carried with me whenever i left the computer. the software could have removed the need for at least 15 people in my team being employed, never-mind the other 100+ using same software on other contracts in our building, and who knows how many worldwide.

What i did was tell them about it and that i had created it and to check my performance stats on the system over the past X time period vs Y time period to demo its effectiveness. ( i didn't breach I.T policy as JAVA, VB, and Powershell were already installed and i just leveraged those so didn't actually install anything )

If i could have taken the contracts with me then i certainly would have, but they were national government contracts locked in for 10years and i did not have day to day contact with the persons involved in making decisions for them
( although i did briefly have a chat with some while they had an office visit - maybe a missed opportunity ), just our tradies or their front line staff. its crappy being a bottom level grunt without the means to leverage myself to gear upto national company overnight.

ahh well...

Edited by SystemParanoia on Thursday 20th October 22:23

[jeff666]

NinjaPower said:

freshkid said:

Woah.

I'd love to read your CV.

To be fair, my CV is ok.

Decent A levels, Uni Degree, a few good jobs, and an absolute stload of other qualifications and courses that I've done through work.

I think a few people took my post the wrong way.

I've put in the work and the hours, came up with good ideas, tried to do my best and produce results, but what has helped me move upwards is the liberal addition of social skills. That's the bit that people often fall down on or just don't want to do.

You slop up motors for a living now dont ya ?

No shame in it, i do the same.

[Megaflow]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Interesting. I just re did it based on an estimate of my wife's net and it still came out at 91%.

Don't get me wrong, I know we are doing ok, but I seriously had no idea we were that high up the scale.

This is what I find a little odd. You drive a mid-range Porsche, surely you recognise you're in upper echelons when compared to the vast majority.

Edited by thetoxicnerve on Thursday 20th October 21:30

As I said, I knew we were doing ok, and if you had asked me to put a number on it, I would have said mid 60's to mid 70's. I wouldn't have said that was the upper echelons.

Regarding the Porsche, it was only £22k when I bought it, lots of people spend that on seriously boring stuff.

[vonuber]

Don said:

AndrewCrown said:

This made me think of this

https://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

Have a play...

That's depressing.

I don't feel that well off.

fk me:

you have a higher income than around 96% of the population - equivalent to about 60.9 million individuals.

That's depressing.

[JoeMarano]

On the plus side all the poor guys mentioned earlier are probably having a wicked time playing darts down the local while we sit typing online....

[Megaflow]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I didn't take it as one, sorry if you took the repons to think I did.

Indeed it does highlight how ok a lot of people are doing without realising it.

Makes me think I should take a closer look at where some of the dash is going and waste less at Amazon!

[Funkycoldribena]

Megaflow said:

Makes me think I should take a closer look at where some of the dash is going and waste less at Amazon!

See,even the rich have a different name for currency.

[vonuber]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Definitely agree with that.