The reality of life for many MANY people.

[johnwilliams77]

okgo said:

Unless OP lives in Belgravia and has a driver then I do find it hard to see how its taken him this long to notice the rest of the UK population.

Perhaps this is one of the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your view) parts of social media, such as Facebook, you're constantly reminded of just how people you worked with, went to school with, or whatever live, and while many will be like you, there's plenty who consider a Beefeater an acceptable place to take your family of a weekend, 4 generations that all look under 50.

A good reason to have very limited groups of people you are 'friends' with on those platforms or not use them at all.

[Thankyou4calling]

okgo said:

Unless OP lives in Belgravia and has a driver then I do find it hard to see how its taken him this long to notice the rest of the UK population.

Perhaps this is one of the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your view) parts of social media, such as Facebook, you're constantly reminded of just how people you worked with, went to school with, or whatever live, and while many will be like you, there's plenty who consider a Beefeater an acceptable place to take your family of a weekend, 4 generations that all look under 50.

I certainly don't live in Belgravia. I live in Richmond (Surrey)

Anyway I've always been well aware of there being lots of people on low wages, I've been one of them, but what surprised me was that they weren't wasters, they were workers and in many cases that appeared to be as good as it could get and they weren't apparently striving for better but content to get a days work and £50.

I just thought that many people are either working hard and doing ok or scrounging benefits so for me, yes, it was eye opening.

[okgo]

Thankyou4calling said:

I certainly don't live in Belgravia. I live in Richmond (Surrey)

Anyway I've always been well aware of there being lots of people on low wages, I've been one of them, but what surprised me was that they weren't wasters, they were workers and in many cases that appeared to be as good as it could get and they weren't apparently striving for better but content to get a days work and £50.

I just thought that many people are either working hard and doing ok or scrounging benefits so for me, yes, it was eye opening.

Well Richmond is fairly blinkered too, so I suppose you can be excused.

[markcoznottz]

Captainawesome said:

I like this thread. So true, and most of these people (the hidden ones) I believe are the ones that swung the EU ref in an unexpected direction. I have a few friend slike this and they literally live day to day with no savings or real ambitions to improve. Odd but a reality for a huge amount of people.

They aren't really hidden but they aren't 'noticeable' as such. I don't think the result was 'unexpected' , to anyone that doesn't work for the guardian or the BBC.

[jonny996]

I have not read the complete thread but I can see the pattern, I think if you have always had 2 professional working parents in a family it is very easy to be drawn into a reduced circle of friends & those friends tend to be the parents of your children's friends who do the same activities . Before you know it your only social experiences are professional work and ski or pony classes & therefore you are blind to the rest of society.

[Efbe]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

wow. That really is easy then! and all tax free

[4x4Tyke]

okgo said:

Well Richmond is fairly blinkered too, so I suppose you can be excused.

Excused? Those that continue to deny the situation are the ones that need to produce an excuse.

[okgo]

4x4Tyke said:

Excused? Those that continue to deny the situation are the ones that need to produce an excuse.

Eh?

[Efbe]

Thankyou4calling said:

okgo said:

Unless OP lives in Belgravia and has a driver then I do find it hard to see how its taken him this long to notice the rest of the UK population.

Perhaps this is one of the unfortunate (or fortunate depending on your view) parts of social media, such as Facebook, you're constantly reminded of just how people you worked with, went to school with, or whatever live, and while many will be like you, there's plenty who consider a Beefeater an acceptable place to take your family of a weekend, 4 generations that all look under 50.

I certainly don't live in Belgravia. I live in Richmond (Surrey)

Anyway I've always been well aware of there being lots of people on low wages, I've been one of them, but what surprised me was that they weren't wasters, they were workers and in many cases that appeared to be as good as it could get and they weren't apparently striving for better but content to get a days work and £50.

I just thought that many people are either working hard and doing ok or scrounging benefits so for me, yes, it was eye opening.

It is really refreshing to hear these comments from someone who has not encountered this before. It seems that PH is full of people who have not encountered the poor of society before and hold the view they are poor because they just did not work hard enough.

so two points here(not aimed at you, just general points):
Firstly it is a completely ridiculous view to think those who are not wealthy do not try. It is like saying that only Usain Bolt tries hard enough at the olympics, and those finishing in 10th place are just scroungers trying to get some fame.
Across society people work hard. There are very few scroungers in my experience that do not or have not tried hard.
When I look around my company which is a massive financial institution I do not see hard working people rising to the top. I also do not see intelligence or charisma rising to the top. I do however see those with the right connections, family background and upbringing rising to the top.

Secondly, and reiteratively, just seeing posts on facebook or driving through a run down estate does not tell you anything at all about these people. What you see on facebook is their facade. No-one tells you how massively hard they work holding down 2 minimum wage jobs whilst raising children, being turned down for every opportunity because there are no jobs in the area, your face doesn't fit, you don't have the education of how to interview well, and even if you did you don't have the confidence or knowledge to approach these jobs, and quite possibly you don't even know they exist.

[okgo]

Point 1 - Bolt runs fast as he is genetically gifted, others cannot because they are not. Nearly anyone can 'make it' whatever that is. Those people in your company arguably are smart as they have realised what it takes to get somewhere, i.e., its not what you know, rather who you know. Work smart not hard and all that.

[4x4Tyke]

okgo said:

4x4Tyke said:

Excused? Those that continue to deny the situation are the ones that need to produce an excuse.

Eh?

I'm agreeing that Thankyou4calling should not be viewed too harshly and pointing at those taking the stance, "not a problem because they are doing alright". Which I consider an excuse not a valid justification they believe it is.

Edited by 4x4Tyke on Monday 24th October 13:02

[SystemParanoia]

okgo said:

Point 1 - Bolt runs fast as he is genetically gifted, others cannot because they are not. Nearly anyone can 'make it' whatever that is. Those people in your company arguably are smart as they have realised what it takes to get somewhere, i.e., its not what you know, rather who you know. Work smart not hard and all that.

Brilliant. so if i work hard enough i can have a well connected family that can parachute me into an executive position no matter how pathetically useless i am.

thanks, ill remember that... my hard work will change my family into well connected snobs. nice

[Efbe]

[redacted]

[Funkycoldribena]

Efbe said:

3. where do you move to when you work in a packing plant in Sunderland?

this thread is moving well away from where it should be going.

This thread is showing exactly how out of touch with reality a lot on here are.

[okgo]

SystemParanoia said:

Brilliant. so if i work hard enough i can have a well connected family that can parachute me into an executive position no matter how pathetically useless i am.

thanks, ill remember that... my hard work will change my family into well connected snobs. nice

We're not talking about you becoming the next Lord Lupton, just less of a whining git.

I do generally think many people could improve their lot substantially by actually trying and having a bit of confidence. But as OP has found, many are happy with what they have, which is good, because it makes it all the more easy for the former to take place.

[Digga]

[redacted]

[Efbe]

[redacted]

[DonkeyApple]

Efbe said:

No, I don't think there is a part of this country that this will not pervade.

This does not address the point though, which is how can people get off the lowest rung.

By firstly accepting that you can't get all people off the lowest rung. Then that the best will get themselves off the lowest rung or more practically ensure that their children start the process of moving up from the bottom. Then, finally, the job of the State is to to attempt as best it can to see who wants to or can make the move and to be there to assist and guide.

But as the competence of someone's parents is probably the single most important thing in how most will grow up then it would probably make sense to start teaching basic parenting skills at school as very clearly we still have a big problem in that regard.

However, for all the faults of the current system and despite the hate propaganda of the tabloids fuelling the damaged minds of the disturbed and self loathing the fact remains that it has pulled more people out of poverty and allowed them to take proper steps upwards than any mechanism that has gone before.

[Digga]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

for all the faults of the current system...the fact remains that it has pulled more people out of poverty and allowed them to take proper steps upwards than any mechanism that has gone before.

Spot on. Right now, right here, in the UK, there has never been greater access to self-betterment. I genuinely believe that.

Edited by thetoxicnerve on Monday 24th October 13:29

We also need to realise that the post war bubble we have all lived in and that has informed both our own and our parent's opinions and expectations is but a brief interlude in the nation's history. Never before and perhaps not necessarily for much longer, do we have such a small wealth gap and such a high standard of living for the majority of the nation. Nothing is forever, nothing is guaranteed.

[Alex]

Digga said:

We also need to realise that the post war bubble we have all lived in and that has informed both our own and our parent's opinions and expectations is but a brief interlude in the nation's history. Never before and perhaps not necessarily for much longer, do we have such a small wealth gap and such a high standard of living for the majority of the nation. Nothing is forever, nothing is guaranteed.

The standard of living is much better now, despite the "wealth gap".