The reality of life for many MANY people.

[TheJimi]

Don said:

TheJimi said:

Don said:

freshkid said:

How anyone can manage to go through life without encountering normal people is beyond me.

This is neither good nor bad. But it is the way it is....

Jesus H Christ.

That's the reality of life for many. Telling it how it is. It's how come you get total and utter misunderstanding between people - the cultures they live in are that separate. My tongue might have been firmly in my cheek writing that but it is a fairly accurate picture of vast swathes of "middle England" living in the S.E.

I feel sorry for you then, genuinely, I do.

My circle of friends and people I associate with span everyone from people who are barely employed to famous artists, to people more posh than the queen - and my life is all the richer for it..

You, on the other hand, appear to take a certain amount of sneering pleasure from your isolation, and your good life, as you see it, compared with others that I suspect you deem beneath you.

I don't believe your post was as tongue-in cheek as you'd have me believe - I suspect you're just being honest, which is fine.

[BOR]

Capitalism : Works very very well for some people. Less well for millions of others.

[ThunderGuts]

AndrewCrown said:

This made me think of this

https://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

Have a play...

That's interesting. I got 86%, which is surprising, very surprising.

[andy-xr]

Always funny when people trying to understand the lives of others make it all about themselves

[ThunderGuts]

andy-xr said:

Always funny when people trying to understand the lives of others make it all about themselves

Indeed, wait until soapboxes are mounted too, won't take long.

[JagLover]

BOR said:

Capitalism : Works very very well for some people. Less well for millions of others.

Very little to do with capitalism far more with the priorities of governments of all political persuasions since the mid nineties.

If capitalism alone were the problem why did median incomes grow by so much until the late 1990s? and millions more join the ranks of the middle classes?.

[TurboHatchback]

I've seen both sides of the coin so it's not news to me. I grew up in an unemployed single parent family so there was no money around at all, £100 per week to live on between three people doesn't go far. Now my family are employed but in working class jobs and none of them own any property. My Mother works full time for the NHS but half that salary goes on renting a room (just a room, not a house or flat) and the remainder is enough to live simply on but certainly not enough to save. It's a different world knowing that if a dental problem or car breakdown occurred you simply couldn't afford to have it sorted, that would be an entire months living money which you simply don't have spare.

Fortunately I was encouraged to pursue education so I did well at college, got a masters engineering degree and now have a professional job paying a moderate salary. I don't own property but otherwise with no dependents things are fairly comfortable, I can afford everything I really want apart from a house and I have money spare for emergencies.

It's striking the difference in opinions on brexit between the different social groups though, my working class family are firmly leave (understandably) whereas all my friends and acquaintances are STEM graduates from Russel Group universities with well-off families and they are firmly remain and baffled how anyone could think otherwise. They don't see the negative effects of immigration on rents, job availability and wages and social division as the houses, jobs and areas they inhabit are a level removed from those the less fortunate must inhabit. Immigrants generally don't compete for skilled professional jobs and nice houses in nice areas, they compete for unskilled jobs and the cheapest accommodation which directly pushes rents up and wages down (and that's before we get onto overloaded public services and taxes). It is long past the point where born and bred English workers are a minority in such jobs, it doesn't take a genius to realise why people are unhappy about this. It's also not difficult to see why people despise politicians in their ivory towers taking huge taxpayer funded salaries whilst patronising and ignoring them and branding them racists for having valid opinions and concerns that don't fit the PC party line.

IMO the great driver of inequality in the UK is property prices, the 'haves' and the 'have nots' are delineated by whether they own property, inherit property or can get a mortgage. Having a roof over your head is unavoidable and paying rent is directly moving money from the poor into the pockets of the already wealthy, when that rent is a huge proportion of your salary it's pretty galling and means you are forever trapped in that situation whilst being squeezed tighter and tighter by rent rises. So long as property can be used as an investment and the population continues to rocket this trend will continue, the vested interests of the wealthy in seeing prices climb ever higher means nothing will be done to reverse it.

[J4CKO]

Don said:

freshkid said:

How anyone can manage to go through life without encountering normal people is beyond me.

I can answer that. Every morning I get up and have breakfast in my nice middle class detacted four bedroom house that I share with my wife. I look out the window at the park and have have a coffee. I smile at my neighbour as we both get into our nice executive cars. His house is very like mine as the estate we both live on only features a few models of house - and all of them cost half a million pounds or more.

I drive fifteen miles to work. I work in a small IT company. Being IT absolutely everyone working for the firm has at least one degree. Some have two. All have postgraduate professional qualifications.

I do "knowledge work" all day. At lunch I mix with my peers and we enjoy discussions about professional topics, the news of the day, a little politics (it varies so best not) and what we might do at the weekend, or where we are planning to holiday this year.

When I make small talk with the clients (who spend millions with us) we discuss mostly the same things.

I go home in my nice executive car, shudder as I pass the proles, and get back into my nice isolated estate. My wife might be cooking something special for dinner. Or I might - I'm a modern guy, I can cook. I'll open a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape to go with that special beef dish she's done. Might finish the evening streaming something from one of the services I've got, perhaps I'll have a Talisker.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

At the weekend I might play golf with some like minded people. Or do a little walking in the countryside - meet some "real" people at the pub - that they drive to in their very expensive executive car. There might be mud on their boots but they're probably more minted than I am by quite some margin. That £100K Range Rover is a bit of a giveaway.

I haven't forgotten who I grew up with...but I've moved often enough that I'm too far away to see any of them. So my life as a professional person is as isolated and utterly disconnected from other people's lifestyles as it could possibly be.


This is neither good nor bad. But it is the way it is....

Edited by Don on Wednesday 19th October 16:18

I take your point but I thought I had wandered into a "Choose Life" type speech like in Trainspotting.


The lyrics from "Common People" by pulp are probably a good primer on this whole subject, in fact 1995/1996 were very prophetic it seems.

[GAjon]

"Let them eat cake" ??

[X5TUU]

Social divide is huge and widening, it's not good or bad, it's just endemic of circles/bubbles people exist in

Interesting on the IFS scale I'm 97% but find that hard to believe ... it's hardly fully respective I would be have said with such a small criterion

[StottyEvo]

Jockman said:

Does the current system work for many people? Can you appreciate why they would want to protest?

Many opportunities are present in the current system, only some of us want to take them. The people described in the OP are my kind of people, for what they lack in ambition they make up for in a simple happiness, that isn't to be deplored but to be celebrated/admired. Only not by the pretentious, of which there are many...

[Joey Ramone]

Don said:

I can answer that. Every morning I get up and have breakfast in my nice middle class detacted four bedroom house that I share with my wife. I look out the window at the park and have have a coffee. I smile at my neighbour as we both get into our nice executive cars. His house is very like mine as the estate we both live on only features a few models of house - and all of them cost half a million pounds or more.

I drive fifteen miles to work. I work in a small IT company. Being IT absolutely everyone working for the firm has at least one degree. Some have two. All have postgraduate professional qualifications.

I do "knowledge work" all day. At lunch I mix with my peers and we enjoy discussions about professional topics, the news of the day, a little politics (it varies so best not) and what we might do at the weekend, or where we are planning to holiday this year.

When I make small talk with the clients (who spend millions with us) we discuss mostly the same things.

I go home in my nice executive car, shudder as I pass the proles, and get back into my nice isolated estate. My wife might be cooking something special for dinner. Or I might - I'm a modern guy, I can cook. I'll open a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape to go with that special beef dish she's done. Might finish the evening streaming something from one of the services I've got, perhaps I'll have a Talisker.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

At the weekend I might play golf with some like minded people. Or do a little walking in the countryside - meet some "real" people at the pub - that they drive to in their very expensive executive car. There might be mud on their boots but they're probably more minted than I am by quite some margin. That £100K Range Rover is a bit of a giveaway.

I haven't forgotten who I grew up with...but I've moved often enough that I'm too far away to see any of them. So my life as a professional person is as isolated and utterly disconnected from other people's lifestyles as it could possibly be.


This is neither good nor bad. But it is the way it is....

Edited by Don on Wednesday 19th October 16:18

I'm privately educated, earn well, and live in the South West in a house worth roughly the same as yours. I and the 50 or so people I work with all have PhD's. Every single one of us. We talk about 'professional' things over lunch but we also like talking about sport, drinking, and shagging. There's a mixed housing estate a few hundred yards away from my gaff, and social housing down the road. Everyone mixes in the local pub and has a laugh. Some are tts, most are lovely. But I'd always rather be there than a posh restaurant. My wife can't cook to save her life, and I hate wine. But i love a bit of Talisker. My best mate can't read or write and works as a bouncer in a rough strippers pub.

It's not compulsory to live in a bubble.

[motco]

TurboHatchback said:

IMO the great driver of inequality in the UK is property prices, the 'haves' and the 'have nots' are delineated by whether they own property, inherit property or can get a mortgage. Having a roof over your head is unavoidable and paying rent is directly moving money from the poor into the pockets of the already wealthy, when that rent is a huge proportion of your salary it's pretty galling and means you are forever trapped in that situation whilst being squeezed tighter and tighter by rent rises. So long as property can be used as an investment and the population continues to rocket this trend will continue, the vested interests of the wealthy in seeing prices climb ever higher means nothing will be done to reverse it.

If any problem as complex as this can be summed up in a nutshell, you have done it there. This is especially true in successful areas such as London. Other successful areas are available...

[superkartracer]

Don said:

But it is the way it is....

for (String x: donsLife) {
System.out.println(x);
for(int i = 0 ; i<1; i++){
System.out.println(" Rinse and repeat");
}

Estate
Rinse and repeat
IT
Rinse and repeat
Boring Life
Rinse and repeat
Golf
Rinse and repeat
Etc
Rinse and repeat
Etc
Rinse and repeat

Stuck in a loop he he

All the best dev's i know don't have degrees and i reckon they earn a fair amount more than you Sir and happen to mix with right old scumbags.

[pim]

Don said:

I can answer that. Every morning I get up and have breakfast in my nice middle class detacted four bedroom house that I share with my wife. I look out the window at the park and have have a coffee. I smile at my neighbour as we both get into our nice executive cars. His house is very like mine as the estate we both live on only features a few models of house - and all of them cost half a million pounds or more.

I drive fifteen miles to work. I work in a small IT company. Being IT absolutely everyone working for the firm has at least one degree. Some have two. All have postgraduate professional qualifications.

I do "knowledge work" all day. At lunch I mix with my peers and we enjoy discussions about professional topics, the news of the day, a little politics (it varies so best not) and what we might do at the weekend, or where we are planning to holiday this year.

When I make small talk with the clients (who spend millions with us) we discuss mostly the same things.

I go home in my nice executive car, shudder as I pass the proles, and get back into my nice isolated estate. My wife might be cooking something special for dinner. Or I might - I'm a modern guy, I can cook. I'll open a bottle of Chateauneuf du Pape to go with that special beef dish she's done. Might finish the evening streaming something from one of the services I've got, perhaps I'll have a Talisker.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

At the weekend I might play golf with some like minded people. Or do a little walking in the countryside - meet some "real" people at the pub - that they drive to in their very expensive executive car. There might be mud on their boots but they're probably more minted than I am by quite some margin. That £100K Range Rover is a bit of a giveaway.

I haven't forgotten who I grew up with...but I've moved often enough that I'm too far away to see any of them. So my life as a professional person is as isolated and utterly disconnected from other people's lifestyles as it could possibly be.


This is neither good nor bad. But it is the way it is....

Edited by Don on Wednesday 19th October 16:18

Don stop showing off.

Why mention detached house? You live in a nice house with a good standard of living.

So do I.

My nephew is a c.e.o of a television radio organisation.My sister would slap his backside if he ever thought or acted he was better than his fellow man.We are all here a short time on this stty planet.

[worsy]

TurboHatchback said:

I've seen both sides of the coin so it's not news to me. I grew up in an unemployed single parent family so there was no money around at all, £100 per week to live on between three people doesn't go far. Now my family are employed but in working class jobs and none of them own any property. My Mother works full time for the NHS but half that salary goes on renting a room (just a room, not a house or flat) and the remainder is enough to live simply on but certainly not enough to save. It's a different world knowing that if a dental problem or car breakdown occurred you simply couldn't afford to have it sorted, that would be an entire months living money which you simply don't have spare.

Fortunately I was encouraged to pursue education so I did well at college, got a masters engineering degree and now have a professional job paying a moderate salary. I don't own property but otherwise with no dependents things are fairly comfortable, I can afford everything I really want apart from a house and I have money spare for emergencies.

It's striking the difference in opinions on brexit between the different social groups though, my working class family are firmly leave (understandably) whereas all my friends and acquaintances are STEM graduates from Russel Group universities with well-off families and they are firmly remain and baffled how anyone could think otherwise. They don't see the negative effects of immigration on rents, job availability and wages and social division as the houses, jobs and areas they inhabit are a level removed from those the less fortunate must inhabit. Immigrants generally don't compete for skilled professional jobs and nice houses in nice areas, they compete for unskilled jobs and the cheapest accommodation which directly pushes rents up and wages down (and that's before we get onto overloaded public services and taxes). It is long past the point where born and bred English workers are a minority in such jobs, it doesn't take a genius to realise why people are unhappy about this. It's also not difficult to see why people despise politicians in their ivory towers taking huge taxpayer funded salaries whilst patronising and ignoring them and branding them racists for having valid opinions and concerns that don't fit the PC party line.

IMO the great driver of inequality in the UK is property prices, the 'haves' and the 'have nots' are delineated by whether they own property, inherit property or can get a mortgage. Having a roof over your head is unavoidable and paying rent is directly moving money from the poor into the pockets of the already wealthy, when that rent is a huge proportion of your salary it's pretty galling and means you are forever trapped in that situation whilst being squeezed tighter and tighter by rent rises. So long as property can be used as an investment and the population continues to rocket this trend will continue, the vested interests of the wealthy in seeing prices climb ever higher means nothing will be done to reverse it.

Amen indeed.

[Don]

Joey Ramone said:

It's not compulsory to live in a bubble.

The point in my satirical piece is that it is very, very easy to do...hence you get a LOT of total cultural disconnection. Stepford wives, you know?

I once watched a TV show where Rick Stein expressed disbelief when he found out that "ordinary" people didn't cook with fresh herbs, or have a spice rack.

When you DO live in a bubble it is terribly, awfully easy to believe that no-one outside it matters. Well they do. And they have votes worth every bit the same as the bubble-people.

[Don]

pim said:

Don stop showing off.

Wasn't. It's a vision of an infinitely repetitive humdrum and ordinary life. Lived by a great very many who do not actually realise just how well off they are in comparison to many.

I could have written about a James Bond lifestyle of excitement and romance but that's not realistic.

Everybody does the daily grind but some people get rewarded for it beyond imagining due to the way market forces work.

The way around that is to run your own show. Not an option for most.

[Jimmy Recard]

In defence of Don, I read it as being purely tongue in cheek and merely an observation of the lives of a certain demographic. Whether it's from personal experience or not doesn't matter - this thread is not about attacking or denigrating any social strata, merely about sharing observations of them wherever possible.

It's a hideous topic to discuss because it's fairly impossible to get any point made to suit every member of the audience.

[X5TUU]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes medical and very few cars I buy new ... I don't take a huge amount of notice of politics but I do hear a lot about people earning 250k+ and simply assumed more people do than is clearly the case ... personal perception problems I guess