Lutron type light systems
Discussion
Renovating and extending a kitchen/dining/living area and looking at lighting solutions.
Fairly basic requirements, no curtains closing or Barry White on stereo - just 4 light circuits all dimmable, and 3 wall points to control all 4
Lutron is about £1k which is more what I want to spend
Builder went to Mr Resistor who suggested Wise Scene for £450 - now realised MR produce Wise Scene which is putting me off.
Any suggestions for about £500-700?
Fairly basic requirements, no curtains closing or Barry White on stereo - just 4 light circuits all dimmable, and 3 wall points to control all 4
Lutron is about £1k which is more what I want to spend
Builder went to Mr Resistor who suggested Wise Scene for £450 - now realised MR produce Wise Scene which is putting me off.
Any suggestions for about £500-700?
Edited by Adam B on Wednesday 26th October 12:03
I've used LightwaveRF. Much cheaper, and functionality is good. Did a lot of research and got advice from E36Guy too.
In any case, it will do what you ask for a fraction of the cost of Lutron, but is not as high-end/controllable. It works well and the switches look great, and are a straight swap for normal light switches.
Caveats:
- not really proper home automation as they are not Z-Wave compatible. This does not seem to bother you, though, as you don't want full automation, just lighting circuits.
If you want to link LightwaveRF to full automation, you need to use external apps to link it to other things. So, for example, I use the IFTTT app to turn the lights on if the Nest fire alarms go off, as both are supported by IFTTT. It is a bit basic though - one day I will set everything up properly using something like Indigo Domotics for better automation.
- the dimmers need a minimum current to work, so if using LEDs, you will need a number of lamps (3 minimum at 5w load) on each circuit. At a low load, they will flicker LED lights as not enough current is going through to drive the lighting circuits properly. They are not rimmable - trimmable dimmer can be set so that the light just turns off before you get down to the flickering stage. I use EcoLED fittings, and Megaman bulbs (the latter are designed in conjunction with LightwaveRF), and accept that the lights do not work if turned down below about 25%.
You can mitigate this problem by putting more lamps on a circuit. With 3 lamps, the low load means that below about 50% dim, you get issues. Put 10 on the circuit and you will dim each lamp to a lower wattage before you get the problem.
Hope that helps!
In any case, it will do what you ask for a fraction of the cost of Lutron, but is not as high-end/controllable. It works well and the switches look great, and are a straight swap for normal light switches.
Caveats:
- not really proper home automation as they are not Z-Wave compatible. This does not seem to bother you, though, as you don't want full automation, just lighting circuits.
If you want to link LightwaveRF to full automation, you need to use external apps to link it to other things. So, for example, I use the IFTTT app to turn the lights on if the Nest fire alarms go off, as both are supported by IFTTT. It is a bit basic though - one day I will set everything up properly using something like Indigo Domotics for better automation.
- the dimmers need a minimum current to work, so if using LEDs, you will need a number of lamps (3 minimum at 5w load) on each circuit. At a low load, they will flicker LED lights as not enough current is going through to drive the lighting circuits properly. They are not rimmable - trimmable dimmer can be set so that the light just turns off before you get down to the flickering stage. I use EcoLED fittings, and Megaman bulbs (the latter are designed in conjunction with LightwaveRF), and accept that the lights do not work if turned down below about 25%.
You can mitigate this problem by putting more lamps on a circuit. With 3 lamps, the low load means that below about 50% dim, you get issues. Put 10 on the circuit and you will dim each lamp to a lower wattage before you get the problem.
Hope that helps!
Edited by Harry Flashman on Wednesday 26th October 12:09
Harry Flashman said:
very useful stuff some of which went over my head
thanksits 4 lighting circuits
- 12 LED spotlights
- 6 LED spotlights
- single pendant light
- LED strip in skylight
I would like all to be dimmable ideally but certainly the first 2
Initial idea was to have hard wired control box in one location , and 2 other locations with an IR/RF/whatever receiver on wall that can also control but cableless
does this help clarify?
OK, the Lightwave stuff will only work for the pandant if it is an incandescent bulb. An LED will flicker if you try to dim it as it will provide too small a load for the dimmer to operate properly.
Same with the LED strip.
The LRF stuff will work as an on/off switch for these, but you will not be able to dim them. If you try, you will get flickering.
The LED spots will work fine (I'd buy 7w ones rather than 5w), but you will again get some flickering. It will work better if you link them all on one circuit.
You can fix these problems by having an electrician put a resistor into the circuits so they draw a higher load, but this kind of negates the point of having low energy bulbs!
The good news is that you can operate all from a 4 gang switch. The LRF 4 gang master dimmer is about £70 - so not a real problem if you test it, it doesn't work, and you move on to trying another solution.
Same with the LED strip.
The LRF stuff will work as an on/off switch for these, but you will not be able to dim them. If you try, you will get flickering.
The LED spots will work fine (I'd buy 7w ones rather than 5w), but you will again get some flickering. It will work better if you link them all on one circuit.
You can fix these problems by having an electrician put a resistor into the circuits so they draw a higher load, but this kind of negates the point of having low energy bulbs!
The good news is that you can operate all from a 4 gang switch. The LRF 4 gang master dimmer is about £70 - so not a real problem if you test it, it doesn't work, and you move on to trying another solution.
I've just put some lightwave rf stuff in my living room controlling 4 ceiling lights and 2 lamps and am pleased with it so far.
I can control them from my phone via the app, a LWRF remote and also a LWRF mood controller.
I have the lights set to come on in the morning when I get up, come on again at dusk, then go off at a random time between 2300 and 2330.
I also have several moods set for reading, cinema etc and one called ironing which the wife loves! 😁
Kit so far cost well under £200 and will add to it as I want.
Because I like Messing about I have also hacked/copied some python scripts to remotely control the lights which currently work from my imac, and am planning on running on a Raspberry Pi so I can control the lights from my harmony remote. All this of course is entirely optional ☺
I can control them from my phone via the app, a LWRF remote and also a LWRF mood controller.
I have the lights set to come on in the morning when I get up, come on again at dusk, then go off at a random time between 2300 and 2330.
I also have several moods set for reading, cinema etc and one called ironing which the wife loves! 😁
Kit so far cost well under £200 and will add to it as I want.
Because I like Messing about I have also hacked/copied some python scripts to remotely control the lights which currently work from my imac, and am planning on running on a Raspberry Pi so I can control the lights from my harmony remote. All this of course is entirely optional ☺
At the non big $ end of the market I'd be inclined to wire the 4 circuits back to a deep double box at the lightswitch location and try out something like this: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/VLIJDQI104S.... which with the optional scene remote has scene memory capabilities, and if it's carp (I haven't tried one myself) it's £100 lost, you can swap it out for a conventional 4 gang dimmer or try other retrofit solutions as they become avaliable.
The problem with LED dimming is it's compromised by working in a retrofit way rather than LED optimised way and there's newer/better stuff trickling out all the time.
The problem with LED dimming is it's compromised by working in a retrofit way rather than LED optimised way and there's newer/better stuff trickling out all the time.
Thanks for all he replies.
I called Lutron and costed up parts needed, as expected about £900
Really like the flexibility and cheap upgrade costs of the sound of the Lightwave, and the ability to set lights to come on on timers or remotely for security.
Going to give them a call tomorrow and check out the options
And think whether I can do without dimming
I called Lutron and costed up parts needed, as expected about £900
Really like the flexibility and cheap upgrade costs of the sound of the Lightwave, and the ability to set lights to come on on timers or remotely for security.
Going to give them a call tomorrow and check out the options
And think whether I can do without dimming
thebraketester said:
Ive got a load of lightwavrf stuff. Works great for us. Ocassional issues but nothing to worry about.
Weve got Zep leds on dimmers and they dim fine, with only slight flickering at really low output (never use them that low)
Hi - what's the minimum number of ZEPs you have on one circuit, and how well does the dimmimg work? I want to see if I can go down to three on one circuit - helpful to get an idea if this works before messing with switch wiring!Weve got Zep leds on dimmers and they dim fine, with only slight flickering at really low output (never use them that low)
Harry Flashman said:
OK, the Lightwave stuff will only work for the pandant if it is an incandescent bulb. An LED will flicker if you try to dim it as it will provide too small a load for the dimmer to operate properly.
Same with the LED strip.
The LRF stuff will work as an on/off switch for these, but you will not be able to dim them. If you try, you will get flickering.
The LED spots will work fine (I'd buy 7w ones rather than 5w), but you will again get some flickering. It will work better if you link them all on one circuit.
You can fix these problems by having an electrician put a resistor into the circuits so they draw a higher load, but this kind of negates the point of having low energy bulbs!
The good news is that you can operate all from a 4 gang switch. The LRF 4 gang master dimmer is about £70 - so not a real problem if you test it, it doesn't work, and you move on to trying another solution.
I've had no issues dimming a single 10w Megaman LED with a LightwaveRF dimmer. The newer Lightwave stuff is designed to work for LEDs using trailing edge dimming. In fact I had no real issues (until we got to maybe 5% illumination, i.e. barely a glow) using a LightwaveRF dimmable wall socket and lamp with Megaman LED, which states in its user manual that it's not compatible with LEDs! Same with the LED strip.
The LRF stuff will work as an on/off switch for these, but you will not be able to dim them. If you try, you will get flickering.
The LED spots will work fine (I'd buy 7w ones rather than 5w), but you will again get some flickering. It will work better if you link them all on one circuit.
You can fix these problems by having an electrician put a resistor into the circuits so they draw a higher load, but this kind of negates the point of having low energy bulbs!
The good news is that you can operate all from a 4 gang switch. The LRF 4 gang master dimmer is about £70 - so not a real problem if you test it, it doesn't work, and you move on to trying another solution.
Howard- said:
I've had no issues dimming a single 10w Megaman LED with a LightwaveRF dimmer. The newer Lightwave stuff is designed to work for LEDs using trailing edge dimming. In fact I had no real issues (until we got to maybe 5% illumination, i.e. barely a glow) using a LightwaveRF dimmable wall socket and lamp with Megaman LED, which states in its user manual that it's not compatible with LEDs!
Good to know - are you using the master dimmers on low run (one or two) LED integrated fittings? I have a load left to buy (so far have only wired up large runs), so it would be good to make sure they ship me the latest stuff. Please could I have the model numbers/a link?Gassing Station | Homes, Gardens and DIY | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff