Paranormal experiences
Discussion
As mentioned science is just another belief system, you use the same part of your brain to believe in atoms as others do to believe in god/santa/tooth fairy, worse really because faiths are just that and acknowledge it but you don't even realize you're just believing something you've simply been convincingly told and so it must be a fact, until it's proven it's not.
You've been indoctrinated but can't see it, ironic arrogance, don't get me wrong as a betting man a scientific explanation would get my money but where I differ from the closed minded is that I wouldn't be that surprised if I lost my money because our limited intellect and perceptions have lead us to some fundamental assumptions to make it work from our point of view. Just an opinion Twig please don't let it utterly depress you
You've been indoctrinated but can't see it, ironic arrogance, don't get me wrong as a betting man a scientific explanation would get my money but where I differ from the closed minded is that I wouldn't be that surprised if I lost my money because our limited intellect and perceptions have lead us to some fundamental assumptions to make it work from our point of view. Just an opinion Twig please don't let it utterly depress you
Jaroon said:
As mentioned science is just another belief system,
No, it isn't; it's a method by which, with greater or lesser success, people try to get to the truth of things. It has epistomological weaknesses but it is not, in any real sense, a "belief system". As Richard Feynman said;- "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."Baz Tench said:
Burwood said:
James randi offered 1m usd to anyone who could demonstrate any psychic ability, paranormal etc. no one ever claimed it.
That has been quoted a few times in this thread, and it's fine.I strongly believe that we're not meant to fully understand it though. 'It' will cross our paths every now and then, but when we least expect it. You're either sensitive to these things or you're not.
Einion Yrth said:
Jaroon said:
As mentioned science is just another belief system,
No, it isn't; it's a method by which, with greater or lesser success, people try to get to the truth of things. It has epistomological weaknesses but it is not, in any real sense, a "belief system". As Richard Feynman said;- "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."Jaroon said:
Einion Yrth said:
Jaroon said:
As mentioned science is just another belief system,
No, it isn't; it's a method by which, with greater or lesser success, people try to get to the truth of things. It has epistomological weaknesses but it is not, in any real sense, a "belief system". As Richard Feynman said;- "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."Einion Yrth said:
Jaroon said:
Einion Yrth said:
Jaroon said:
As mentioned science is just another belief system,
No, it isn't; it's a method by which, with greater or lesser success, people try to get to the truth of things. It has epistomological weaknesses but it is not, in any real sense, a "belief system". As Richard Feynman said;- "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool."Edit: Excellent, done. Scientism is not a term I'd come across before and is exactly what I was trying to describe. I mentioned earlier that what I believed to be a genuine scientist is far more open minded than some posters on here defending science as the be all, end all, only way to look at the universe/reality and maintain my position that that we maybe too focused in that direction, ok not too focused, I mean I don't like to dismiss any other views out of hand and the dismissive arrogance of scientismists (my word I own it) never fails to irk.
Edited by Jaroon on Tuesday 6th December 21:02
I think women are far more attuned to receiving messages from 'the other side'. I've shared my experiences with a lot of women that have lost someone close and nearly all have had a 'winged being' appear/do something strange story to relate back to me. I don't think they were all trying to humour me 
Tales of butterflies, robins, blackbirds or even feathers falling - making an unexpected or repeated appearance after the death of a partner/parent/child have been told to me.
I have a notion that the size of 'winged being' that appears after death depends on how much emotional upset/trauma is felt by those left behind. A 'grief energy field' is created which either allows messages from the dead or 'gives hallucinations' as comfort.
Tales of butterflies, robins, blackbirds or even feathers falling - making an unexpected or repeated appearance after the death of a partner/parent/child have been told to me.
I have a notion that the size of 'winged being' that appears after death depends on how much emotional upset/trauma is felt by those left behind. A 'grief energy field' is created which either allows messages from the dead or 'gives hallucinations' as comfort.
V6Pushfit said:
Waste of time here Baz it's the thought police trying to censor free speech by ridiculing it.
Nobody's censoring anything. Stop being hysterical. There are views on both sides. If you want free speech, you have to accept that. Free speech is not where you only listen to and discuss things with people who agree with you.ash73 said:
Jaroon said:
Religion could be said to be a method by which people try to get the truth out of things
Religion is just classical philosophy simplified for the uneducated masses and dressed up with a few manmade supernatural myths. It tells us literally nothing about how the universe works; if a God does exist (which is logically possible) it will bear no resemblance to some manmade pantomime dreamt up by ignorant iron age peasants living in the desert 2K years ago.Let's look at the "truth" of original sin; what have we actually done with free will that's so fundamentally bad? We succeed as a species because we work together, and any society anywhere in the universe with this characteristic would inevitably arrive at the same conclusion; "thou shalt not murder". You don't need God to discover an inescapable truth. In fact only one significant thing has changed in society; we abolished slavery. If religion had said "thou shalt not slave" I could almost believe it was divine insight, no iron age peasant would conceive that and some societies could prosper better with it than without it, but we figured it out for ourselves.
Also you can't really say it tells us nothing about how the universe works because you don't really know, you only have versions you choose to believe I'm afraid. You might be right of course but you don't know you're right and they're wrong, chances are you're both wrong tbh just different levels of wrongness and if it only took an unearthed scroll saying "thou shalt not slave" to convert you I think you are vulnerable. Don't answer the door on Sundays.
I've got a couple....
A friend of the family woke up having had a dream about her nephew (who was on honeymoon 5000 miles away) struggling to swim in the local river. it was so realistic that she woke her husband up to tell him. Next morning they had a phone call. The nephew had drowned whilst swimming in the lake next to the hotel.
Another friend of the family, ex-RSM, built like the proverbial, walking past a cemetery at 2 am. He saw a man waiting next to the cemetery gate. The man called out to him a few times but he kept his head down and walked past. The man was somebody he'd known as a child and had died a long time ago. He says that's the nearest he's ever felt to death.
The first one you could probably shrug off as coincidence. Maybe the woman had lots of dreams. Maybe she put 2 and 2 together and came up with 17. But the ex Army guy I can't understand- he was (still is) one of the most rational level headed people I know, your typical Yorkshireman.
Who knows? There are more things in heaven and earth than can be dreamt of in your philosophy horatio
A friend of the family woke up having had a dream about her nephew (who was on honeymoon 5000 miles away) struggling to swim in the local river. it was so realistic that she woke her husband up to tell him. Next morning they had a phone call. The nephew had drowned whilst swimming in the lake next to the hotel.
Another friend of the family, ex-RSM, built like the proverbial, walking past a cemetery at 2 am. He saw a man waiting next to the cemetery gate. The man called out to him a few times but he kept his head down and walked past. The man was somebody he'd known as a child and had died a long time ago. He says that's the nearest he's ever felt to death.
The first one you could probably shrug off as coincidence. Maybe the woman had lots of dreams. Maybe she put 2 and 2 together and came up with 17. But the ex Army guy I can't understand- he was (still is) one of the most rational level headed people I know, your typical Yorkshireman.
Who knows? There are more things in heaven and earth than can be dreamt of in your philosophy horatio
Three of us watching television, myself, the misses and one of our sons in his early 20's, to the left of the tele is a gas fire place with the usual modern house faux marble surround.
Floating out of the fire place area emerges a flickering flaming orb, about half the size of a golf ball, it moved slowly upwards and disappears into the ceiling. We all said at the same time, did you see that and each described the same.
The fire hadn't been on for months, nor was it cold.
My dog was put to sleep, at home, earlier that day...
No explanation sought for it, nor needed...
Floating out of the fire place area emerges a flickering flaming orb, about half the size of a golf ball, it moved slowly upwards and disappears into the ceiling. We all said at the same time, did you see that and each described the same.
The fire hadn't been on for months, nor was it cold.
My dog was put to sleep, at home, earlier that day...
No explanation sought for it, nor needed...
condor said:
I think women are far more attuned to receiving messages from 'the other side'. I've shared my experiences with a lot of women that have lost someone close and nearly all have had a 'winged being' appear/do something strange story to relate back to me. I don't think they were all trying to humour me
Tales of butterflies, robins, blackbirds or even feathers falling - making an unexpected or repeated appearance after the death of a partner/parent/child have been told to me.
I have a notion that the size of 'winged being' that appears after death depends on how much emotional upset/trauma is felt by those left behind. A 'grief energy field' is created which either allows messages from the dead or 'gives hallucinations' as comfort.
Interesting thread, on a number of levels. Still it's the Internet, should never be surprised when people repeatedly try to take a view to stroke their own sense of superiority. Especially in a topic where few people will actually be swayed in their beliefs and more likely think of them as just acting like nobbers for the sake of it. But anyway...Tales of butterflies, robins, blackbirds or even feathers falling - making an unexpected or repeated appearance after the death of a partner/parent/child have been told to me.
I have a notion that the size of 'winged being' that appears after death depends on how much emotional upset/trauma is felt by those left behind. A 'grief energy field' is created which either allows messages from the dead or 'gives hallucinations' as comfort.
My mother has always been fond of Butterflies. At her mothers (my nan's) funeral a butterfly landed on her in the church and sat on her for most of the proceedings...she took it as a sign from her mother and it provided some comfort at the time and still does. Now clearly it was a coincidence - it was mid summer, lots of flowers in the church etc so hardly an entirely unexpected occurrence. But there is something in (most of) us that needs to have something 'spiritual' in their lives - maybe it's just the mind trying to offset the harsh realities of life - so when things like that happen it's not surprising people can latch on to them.
Now, in a rational conversation would mum think or try to argue it was a reincarnation or some such thing? No - but she still derived comfort from it and to this day mentions it. It would be a considerably dick move, I feel, to constantly be poo pooing it because science - however factually correct it may be. I guess you can say discretion is the better part of valour in this case.
I do think a lot of people want some spirituality / mystery in their lives whether that be from religion, the paranormal, aliens, Trump or whatever. In fact it would be a pretty dull and grey world without it and not somewhere I'd want to live to be honest. Who cares if it's not real, if it helps people along the way and provides a bit of colour in a potentially otherwise bleak existence why not. I mean, sitting in a house on the edge of farmland at night - I know there's nowt out there in reality (barring a few cold and pissed off Badgers) but it's more interesting to imagine those noises are actually something 'else'.
On the animal/insect front, on the day of the funeral for the child victims of a killer a dove/pigeon feather landed on the windscreen of both hearses simultaneously but there were no birds anywhere near. It was noticed by the spiritually leaning father of one of the victims as being odd and he told a friend (also one of mine), the friend having been originally contacted hours after the children's disappearance and helped bring the perp to justice having predicted five key things that enabled the case to be solved. His answer was that the feathers were from the victims.
This is borderline for me, but I'll run with it since the friend had assisted the police in the early stages of the case when it was still a missing persons enquiry by telling the father:
The victims were already dead
There was a red car involved
There was a mousy faced woman with a northern accent involved
There were three people involved (two actually but includes a relative as well who wasn't charged)
The victims were in water (found in a ditch)
This is borderline for me, but I'll run with it since the friend had assisted the police in the early stages of the case when it was still a missing persons enquiry by telling the father:
The victims were already dead
There was a red car involved
There was a mousy faced woman with a northern accent involved
There were three people involved (two actually but includes a relative as well who wasn't charged)
The victims were in water (found in a ditch)
It is my belief that there's things do exist from my own and rational others experiences. I'm not necessarily comfortable with it, and I think people range from being naturally very receptive through to being totally unreceptive and that it's genetic - the chap refered to above has two granddaughters and one is the same while the other has no ability. In fact their mother tries to keep the lid on it as the nursery school keep asking her questions about her daughter as 'we are worried she must have got into the store cupboard because she knew what the classes Christmas presents were before they were unwrapped' and those sorts of events and uneasy questions are regular.
Anyway in defence of the nay sayers I understand entirely that if they have had no personal experiences, and don't know anyone who has, that it is beyond comprehension and therefore can't exist. It may be they aren't receptive or just don't speak or enquire much of others to learn of their experiences. Because it doesn't fit with current understanding doesn't mean they should be completely closed minded, but it takes all sorts.
For those who are very receptive I think it is genetic, a recessive gene which became redundant a very long time ago as it has no practical Darwinian use. They are unlikely to want to publish it, film it or shout about it as it's deeply personal and in some ways at times debilitating. But like it or not it's there, and one day the mechanics of it and reasons may be known but as yet we have no idea. As I said just like ship to ship radio in Nelsons time.
Anyway in defence of the nay sayers I understand entirely that if they have had no personal experiences, and don't know anyone who has, that it is beyond comprehension and therefore can't exist. It may be they aren't receptive or just don't speak or enquire much of others to learn of their experiences. Because it doesn't fit with current understanding doesn't mean they should be completely closed minded, but it takes all sorts.
For those who are very receptive I think it is genetic, a recessive gene which became redundant a very long time ago as it has no practical Darwinian use. They are unlikely to want to publish it, film it or shout about it as it's deeply personal and in some ways at times debilitating. But like it or not it's there, and one day the mechanics of it and reasons may be known but as yet we have no idea. As I said just like ship to ship radio in Nelsons time.
Superflow said:
jmorgan said:
Science changes, it works with what it has. Feed it the info here and it will go with the flow. However, no info, it remains as what it is now.
I have an open mind, it needs info rather than anecdotal evidence.
The "info" are the facts of the event as presented,if science cannot provide an answer,then it is probably a paranormal event,now where is the missing boy?.I have an open mind, it needs info rather than anecdotal evidence.
I have to accept that what I am presented with at many levels as I do not have the ability to work out for myself however I can follow the gist to some point, so for example a the deeper things of string theory I am aware of in the sense that there are some strange physics going on (or rather normal physics?) but no understanding as such or the chemical process that goes on when chips are grown for your computer.
Your commentary provides me with some issues. First I do not know you from Adam so with the greatest respect, I could say you made it up (not that you did). Then, knowing the human mind can be a great recorder and by the same token an absolutely terrible one, you are mistaken. This mind fallibility business is borne out by the use of lawyers in our world, if we were that good then they would be out of a job in court and many many other good examples. Or there is something else going on that is "paranormal". This latter seems to have many chances over the years to provide solid proof but never has.
Unless there is something that stands out as "paranormal", then the prime candidates for me as an observer to pick remain as the sole preserve of the human mind and that is broken down to a presentation of a deceit or perceived by the mind. Or the boy ran away. I pick the last two. Probably the last.
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