Paranormal experiences
Discussion
Andy_stook_2k said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
So what do we know so far?
Recessive genes don't work in he way it has been suggested by V6 on here.
No video evidence of anything paranormal, despite billions of CCTV cameras and smartphones.
No psychic has ever stood up to any kind of proper controlled scrutiny.
Loads of psychics have been exposed as frauds.
Loads of psychics have admitted to being frauds
The likes of Derren Brown can do exactly what psychics do, often far better, and have people saying "no way could he have known that" yet they do it as a trick and admit to having no special powers.
The police do not use psychics, and no one can produce evidence that they do.
As for the stuff we don't know, the answer is "do more science".
Dr Julie Beischel's scientific study of mediums is significant, what are your thoughts of her work when you studied it ?Recessive genes don't work in he way it has been suggested by V6 on here.
No video evidence of anything paranormal, despite billions of CCTV cameras and smartphones.
No psychic has ever stood up to any kind of proper controlled scrutiny.
Loads of psychics have been exposed as frauds.
Loads of psychics have admitted to being frauds
The likes of Derren Brown can do exactly what psychics do, often far better, and have people saying "no way could he have known that" yet they do it as a trick and admit to having no special powers.
The police do not use psychics, and no one can produce evidence that they do.
As for the stuff we don't know, the answer is "do more science".
"Beischel is the co-founder of the Windbridge Institute for Applied Research in Human Potential a psychic woo organization that claims everything from levitation, psychokinesis to mediumship is scientifically genuine. Beischel obtained a Ph.D. in Pharmacology and Toxicology with a minor in Microbiology and Immunology (2003) from the University of Arizona.[1]
Beischel published the pseudoscientific book Among Mediums: A Scientist's Quest for Answers (2013) which claimed that mediums such as Leonora Piper communicated with the dead. The book ignored any evidence of fraud in the mediums that she wrote about. She has also supported the controversial experiments of Gary Schwartz which have been rejected by the scientific community.[2]
Beischel has published many pseudoscience articles in parapsychology journals claiming that mediums can contact the dead.[3] Her claims have been rejected by the scientific community and her only supporters are other spiritualists such as Alex Tsakiris and Robert McLuhan.[4]"
The positive thing about experiences that are beyond normal explanation is that at worst they add an interesting dimension to life and at best they expand consciousness beyond the concrete and material to dimensions that only theoretically exist.
We had the minister round this afternoon and had a lengthy chat about that most common of 'paranormal experiences' - salvation. To some it's nonsense, to many it's not, but why would anyone be interested in empirically proving it? Believers know it as a certainty, and non-believers consider it to be nonsense. What has anyone got to gain from scientifically proving it?
We had the minister round this afternoon and had a lengthy chat about that most common of 'paranormal experiences' - salvation. To some it's nonsense, to many it's not, but why would anyone be interested in empirically proving it? Believers know it as a certainty, and non-believers consider it to be nonsense. What has anyone got to gain from scientifically proving it?
I am sure this thread was meant to be fun and entertaining, so in the interest of keeping it so, here's one from me.
Four years ago we lived in a rented property called The Old Coach House, and sure enough that's what it was, built in late 17 something - though it's age doesn't have much to do with the story. This old coach house was converted to very nice living accommodation late in the 60's though you could still see many interesting features that provided access for carriages and it had a couple of huge oak supports coming up from the floor supporting the ceiling, and one bedroom with heavy duty oak beams supporting the roof.
Anyway, we regularly used to hear a noise that I can only describe as a loud, dull click in the area of the oak beamed bedroom. It was always exactly the same sound, but somehow different and unusual, and I put it down to some sort of expansion or contraction going on. But one day I was in the adjacent bathroom and heard this noise. I then had a very pronounced feeling of not being alone. This happened a few times when in the bathroom to the point where I had a couple of one way discussions along the lines of "Hello, how are you today? I know you're there". Daft I know, but you had to be there.
So it came to moving out time and Mrs Molehusband told the landlord that we found it a little damp and cold in places, especially at the far end. Out of the blue, as we'd never actually discussed this, Mrs Molehusband said "Its like it's haunted". The landlord said "Oh apparently it is, somebody hung themselves in the coach house in the early sixties".
Four years ago we lived in a rented property called The Old Coach House, and sure enough that's what it was, built in late 17 something - though it's age doesn't have much to do with the story. This old coach house was converted to very nice living accommodation late in the 60's though you could still see many interesting features that provided access for carriages and it had a couple of huge oak supports coming up from the floor supporting the ceiling, and one bedroom with heavy duty oak beams supporting the roof.
Anyway, we regularly used to hear a noise that I can only describe as a loud, dull click in the area of the oak beamed bedroom. It was always exactly the same sound, but somehow different and unusual, and I put it down to some sort of expansion or contraction going on. But one day I was in the adjacent bathroom and heard this noise. I then had a very pronounced feeling of not being alone. This happened a few times when in the bathroom to the point where I had a couple of one way discussions along the lines of "Hello, how are you today? I know you're there". Daft I know, but you had to be there.
So it came to moving out time and Mrs Molehusband told the landlord that we found it a little damp and cold in places, especially at the far end. Out of the blue, as we'd never actually discussed this, Mrs Molehusband said "Its like it's haunted". The landlord said "Oh apparently it is, somebody hung themselves in the coach house in the early sixties".
RegMolehusband said:
I am sure this thread was meant to be fun and entertaining, so in the interest of keeping it so, here's one from me.
Four years ago we lived in a rented property called The Old Coach House, and sure enough that's what it was, built in late 17 something - though it's age doesn't have much to do with the story. This old coach house was converted to very nice living accommodation late in the 60's though you could still see many interesting features that provided access for carriages and it had a couple of huge oak supports coming up from the floor supporting the ceiling, and one bedroom with heavy duty oak beams supporting the roof.
Anyway, we regularly used to hear a noise that I can only describe as a loud, dull click in the area of the oak beamed bedroom. It was always exactly the same sound, but somehow different and unusual, and I put it down to some sort of expansion or contraction going on. But one day I was in the adjacent bathroom and heard this noise. I then had a very pronounced feeling of not being alone. This happened a few times when in the bathroom to the point where I had a couple of one way discussions along the lines of "Hello, how are you today? I know you're there". Daft I know, but you had to be there.
So it came to moving out time and Mrs Molehusband told the landlord that we found it a little damp and cold in places, especially at the far end. Out of the blue, as we'd never actually discussed this, Mrs Molehusband said "Its like it's haunted". The landlord said "Oh apparently it is, somebody hung themselves in the coach house in the early sixties".
Interesting. You'll probably be hung yourself for that by the sceptics, but as you say you had to be there and sense it not being normal. One thing would be to contact subsequent occupants to see if they had the same experience. Four years ago we lived in a rented property called The Old Coach House, and sure enough that's what it was, built in late 17 something - though it's age doesn't have much to do with the story. This old coach house was converted to very nice living accommodation late in the 60's though you could still see many interesting features that provided access for carriages and it had a couple of huge oak supports coming up from the floor supporting the ceiling, and one bedroom with heavy duty oak beams supporting the roof.
Anyway, we regularly used to hear a noise that I can only describe as a loud, dull click in the area of the oak beamed bedroom. It was always exactly the same sound, but somehow different and unusual, and I put it down to some sort of expansion or contraction going on. But one day I was in the adjacent bathroom and heard this noise. I then had a very pronounced feeling of not being alone. This happened a few times when in the bathroom to the point where I had a couple of one way discussions along the lines of "Hello, how are you today? I know you're there". Daft I know, but you had to be there.
So it came to moving out time and Mrs Molehusband told the landlord that we found it a little damp and cold in places, especially at the far end. Out of the blue, as we'd never actually discussed this, Mrs Molehusband said "Its like it's haunted". The landlord said "Oh apparently it is, somebody hung themselves in the coach house in the early sixties".
....and congratulations on THE best username on PH
drainbrain said:
The positive thing about experiences that are beyond normal explanation is that at worst they add an interesting dimension to life
No, at worst they result in the demise of critical thinking and people believing rubbish that just isn't true. And that can result in all kind of horrors. drainbrain said:
What has anyone got to gain from scientifically proving it?
Worldwide fame and fortune? I think making what would probably be the most important discovery in all human history, being flown around the globe 1st class, being interviewed on chatshows, giving lectures at top unis, staying in the best hotels....I think most people would see that as a gain from their current lives. I know I would. 
TwigtheWonderkid said:
drainbrain said:
The positive thing about experiences that are beyond normal explanation is that at worst they add an interesting dimension to life
No, at worst they result in the demise of critical thinking and people believing rubbish that just isn't true. And that can result in all kind of horrors. drainbrain said:
What has anyone got to gain from scientifically proving it?
Worldwide fame and fortune? I think making what would probably be the most important discovery in all human history, being flown around the globe 1st class, being interviewed on chatshows, giving lectures at top unis, staying in the best hotels....I think most people would see that as a gain from their current lives. I know I would. Please tell me you were 'Santa tolerant' and supported the Tooth Fairy when your kids were small!
Anyway, even in these early days of science, isn't there already a theoretical understanding that our 3 dimensional vision may be only one of endless dimensions which exist simultaneously with it?
As far as reducing everything to material proof is concerned, one of the commonest proofs of the reality of Christian salvation is the effect it has on the lives of the self-proclaimed saved. Following the experience, many have turned away from deeply negative and frequently antisocial conducts to something much more positive and productive. What proof could be more visible than that?
drainbrain said:
As far as reducing everything to material proof is concerned, one of the commonest proofs of the reality of Christian salvation is the effect it has on the lives of the self-proclaimed saved. Following the experience, many have turned away from deeply negative and frequently antisocial conducts to something much more positive and productive. What proof could be more visible than that?
Proof that it's true? Just because peoples lives can be enhanced by believing drivel has no bearing on whether it is true or not. If your neighbour turns his back garden from a tip into a thing of beauty because he thinks he has fairies living at the bottom of it, that doesn't prove he had fairies living at the bottom of it.
And of course, in your example, the reverse is true, and for some people Christian salvation has turned them from normal decent people into bombers of abortion clinics.
But that's a whole new thread.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Proof that it's true? Just because peoples lives can be enhanced by believing drivel has no bearing on whether it is true or not.
Like this, do you mean??http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38220079
Wouldn't you agree that things would be much better if there was more of that "drivel"?
drainbrain said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Proof that it's true? Just because peoples lives can be enhanced by believing drivel has no bearing on whether it is true or not.
Like this, do you mean??http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38220079
That story means nothing. It's literally 'man does a thing'.
Why is the story not 'man with a DVD player starts successful business' or a billion other things he may or may not have or have done before the business.
'Man cut his hair then had successful business'
'Man ate some pizza then had successful business'
'Man changed a tyre on his car then had successful business'
All are just as valid as a story. And equally irrelevant.
Drivel.
drainbrain said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Proof that it's true? Just because peoples lives can be enhanced by believing drivel has no bearing on whether it is true or not.
Like this, do you mean??http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38220079
drainbrain said:
Like this, do you mean??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38220079
Wouldn't you agree that things would be much better if there was more of that "drivel"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4762209.stmhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38220079
Wouldn't you agree that things would be much better if there was more of that "drivel"?
Like this bloke, dedicated classroom assistant finds god and blows up London tube train.
Man has "paranormal experience" and attributes turning his life around to that experience.
But others, they know better…...
Not everybody who finds salvation becomes enormously materially successful, but millions upon millions seem to find it and this particular 'paranormal experience' seems to have a profoundly positive impact on them. At least according to them it does. Are they all wrong? How else can this life changing effect following this singular paranormal experience be explained? Coincidence?
But others, they know better…...
Not everybody who finds salvation becomes enormously materially successful, but millions upon millions seem to find it and this particular 'paranormal experience' seems to have a profoundly positive impact on them. At least according to them it does. Are they all wrong? How else can this life changing effect following this singular paranormal experience be explained? Coincidence?
drainbrain said:
Man has "paranormal experience" and attributes turning his life around to that experience.
But others, they know better…...
Not everybody who finds salvation becomes enormously materially successful, but millions upon millions seem to find it and this particular 'paranormal experience' seems to have a profoundly positive impact on them. At least according to them it does. Are they all wrong? How else can this life changing effect following this singular paranormal experience be explained? Coincidence?
Well, given that plenty of people escape from a troubled youth and go on to have successful business careers without paranormal invention, I'm going to go with 'yes - complete coincidence'.But others, they know better…...
Not everybody who finds salvation becomes enormously materially successful, but millions upon millions seem to find it and this particular 'paranormal experience' seems to have a profoundly positive impact on them. At least according to them it does. Are they all wrong? How else can this life changing effect following this singular paranormal experience be explained? Coincidence?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4762209.stm
Like this bloke, dedicated classroom assistant finds god and blows up London tube train.
I didn't at any time suggest that paranormal experience couldn't have horrendous consequences. And I suppose, in a way, those negative consequences prove the reality of the experiences as do the positive ones. Proof either way.Like this bloke, dedicated classroom assistant finds god and blows up London tube train.
drainbrain said:
I didn't at any time suggest that paranormal experience couldn't have horrendous consequences. And I suppose, in a way, those negative consequences prove the reality of the experiences as do the positive ones. Proof either way.
I'm not sure you understand what proof is. Disastrous said:
Well, given that plenty of people escape from a troubled youth and go on to have successful business careers without paranormal invention, I'm going to go with 'yes - complete coincidence'.
The thing is, in HIS case (and many many many others too) the paranormal experience (negative or positive) appears to link directly to the effect on behaviour. It's just plain silly to say that paranormal experiences don't exist. Whether they can or can't be explained is really neither here nor there. They happen, and because they happen, they exist.
The spoon flies into the air. The man's life turns around. The man's mishaps mirror his mother's thousands of miles away. The steps are heard on the stairs. They all happen. Those are the experiences. The speculation only surrounds the cause or source of them. In the end, anything can be written off to coincidence. But coincidence is a form of paranormal experience too, isn't it?
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