Help me rationalise - other people's childcare
Discussion
My wife and I do not yet have any children.
However, I find the behaviour of some people I know with children, to be completely at odds with how I expect I will be as a parent in future, in particular, that of my wife's brother and his wife, who have a 4 year old boy and an 18 month old girl. Not being a parent though I don't have the moral high ground, just an opinion and I want to know if my opinion is "wrong" based on the thinking of the PH masses.
I think most of this is from the sister in law.
This Christmas, they are flying back to the UK to see all the family and are staying with my mother in law. They are all coming to visit us Christmas Eve for lunch and staying for tea, so that my MiL can see my parents again as she hasn't seen them since my wedding, same with the family.
My wife then received a message from the sister in law about whether or not we have two spare bedrooms in the house. Why, I thought, they are not staying overnight?
Apparently, both children still need to have an afternoon nap. But they cannot have the afternoon nap, in the same room, and they MUST have their nap between 3pm - 4pm.
I can understand it entirely with the 18 month old. But really, do people still put their 4 year olds down for a nap? And on Christmas Eve, are they not going to be so excited by the prospect of Christmas the next day, now that he understands it all, that giving him a nap is just going to mean he is even less likely to sleep in the evening? And do you go and put them down for a nap, at someone else's house when you are visiting family?
How far off base am I being when I think this is just a bit awkward, and that's before we get to the attitude of the sister in law when things like this are The Most Important Thing Ever?
Other friends of ours who have children seem to be able to cope completely without this faff and "a nap" when they come to visit is in the car seat or pram or we just lie them down on the sofa and leave them to it.
However, I find the behaviour of some people I know with children, to be completely at odds with how I expect I will be as a parent in future, in particular, that of my wife's brother and his wife, who have a 4 year old boy and an 18 month old girl. Not being a parent though I don't have the moral high ground, just an opinion and I want to know if my opinion is "wrong" based on the thinking of the PH masses.
I think most of this is from the sister in law.
This Christmas, they are flying back to the UK to see all the family and are staying with my mother in law. They are all coming to visit us Christmas Eve for lunch and staying for tea, so that my MiL can see my parents again as she hasn't seen them since my wedding, same with the family.
My wife then received a message from the sister in law about whether or not we have two spare bedrooms in the house. Why, I thought, they are not staying overnight?
Apparently, both children still need to have an afternoon nap. But they cannot have the afternoon nap, in the same room, and they MUST have their nap between 3pm - 4pm.
I can understand it entirely with the 18 month old. But really, do people still put their 4 year olds down for a nap? And on Christmas Eve, are they not going to be so excited by the prospect of Christmas the next day, now that he understands it all, that giving him a nap is just going to mean he is even less likely to sleep in the evening? And do you go and put them down for a nap, at someone else's house when you are visiting family?
How far off base am I being when I think this is just a bit awkward, and that's before we get to the attitude of the sister in law when things like this are The Most Important Thing Ever?
Other friends of ours who have children seem to be able to cope completely without this faff and "a nap" when they come to visit is in the car seat or pram or we just lie them down on the sofa and leave them to it.
I cannot rationlise the childcare arrangements of others (or other people's thinking in general - was it not Newton who stated, "I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies but not the madness of people"), but I would be directing the SIL to Hotel.com for their accommodation requirements.
FWIW I have a 4 and a half old month son.
FWIW I have a 4 and a half old month son.
Edited by putonghua73 on Monday 5th December 16:10
I have a 5 yr old and a 18 month old, the 5yr old hasn't had a nap in the afternoon for a good couple of years, the last time was when we were on holiday and we know each nihgt would be a late one so made sure he had one in the afternoon , but he was only just 3 so just getting out of the afternoon nap habit.
the 18 month old, he will just fall asleep when he is tired, if we are out at friend we'll put him in the buggy in the hall or take him for a 5 min stroll to get him to sleep. Neither of them need a bedroom, and in fact if i put the 18 month old in a bed I'd be more worried about him falling out.
the 18 month old, he will just fall asleep when he is tired, if we are out at friend we'll put him in the buggy in the hall or take him for a 5 min stroll to get him to sleep. Neither of them need a bedroom, and in fact if i put the 18 month old in a bed I'd be more worried about him falling out.
Entirely sensible sister in law. If the squawking little sods will go to sleep for an hour during the day, grasp the opportunity.
For her, it's a chance to do the stuff she can't like washing up, and flower arranging. For you on Christmas Eve, it's a chance to talk about things other than The Night Garden, and its not like you need to redecorate - just sweep up the leftover coke into a bowl, stick that and the Jack Daniels on a high shelf, and PIN lock the grot on the TV
For her, it's a chance to do the stuff she can't like washing up, and flower arranging. For you on Christmas Eve, it's a chance to talk about things other than The Night Garden, and its not like you need to redecorate - just sweep up the leftover coke into a bowl, stick that and the Jack Daniels on a high shelf, and PIN lock the grot on the TV
When hers were young enough my sister never ever let her kids nap or spend any more time than strictly necessary in their carry car seat thing (I can't remember the proper name for it) when out, they would come round with a travel cot and erect it on one of the bedrooms, it wasn't really a hassle for us but my god it was a hassle for her and her husband, lugging so much crap about to accommodate their kids when they could just as easily have a kip in the buggy or the car seat.
When ours were that age we would have a baby change bag and the car seat, that is it, if they were tired or needed a nap, as babies do, they slept in the car seat, which we would rock with our feet, or the buggy.
Some people do have odd ideas about their children and yes OP I think maybe your sister is being a tad too precious, and it seems they are the sort that let their kids rule them as opposed to how it should be, I wouldn't be surprised if they were brats too.
My 3 year old grandson stopped having an afternoon nap when he was about 2.
When ours were that age we would have a baby change bag and the car seat, that is it, if they were tired or needed a nap, as babies do, they slept in the car seat, which we would rock with our feet, or the buggy.
Some people do have odd ideas about their children and yes OP I think maybe your sister is being a tad too precious, and it seems they are the sort that let their kids rule them as opposed to how it should be, I wouldn't be surprised if they were brats too.
My 3 year old grandson stopped having an afternoon nap when he was about 2.
If my 2 yo doesn't have any kind of nap in the afternoon then he will be a nightmare when it gets close to bedtime (half 6)
His timings are quite specific in that he has his lunch at around 11 then by 12 he's normally asleep. If he can't be somewhere quiet then he wont sleep (unless we're in the car)
His timings are quite specific in that he has his lunch at around 11 then by 12 he's normally asleep. If he can't be somewhere quiet then he wont sleep (unless we're in the car)
The last time one of ours had a nap before bed, other than during long car journeys (when often enough I'll be the only one awake in the car including their mum) was at a Halloween party. Flat out on the floor in the middle of the lounge, and he's 8! 
We just checked he hadn't surreptitiously found the booze, made sure nobody was going to tread on him, then got on with the party until it was time to wake him up and take him home to bed, by which time he'd been snoring away for over an hour! Am I a bad parent?
We just checked he hadn't surreptitiously found the booze, made sure nobody was going to tread on him, then got on with the party until it was time to wake him up and take him home to bed, by which time he'd been snoring away for over an hour! Am I a bad parent?
It depends on the children. Many parents are in my opinion too busy being experts to just observe their children and respond to their needs.
I believe anyone who keeps their children awake because they believe it the right thing to do equally stupid to anyone who puts their children to bed at a set time every day just because they think it's the right thing to do - in each case irrespective of the specific child.
Mine are 6 and 4 years old now, and seldom nap now. We took them back to the hotel room to sleep mid afternoon on holiday in October because they would over do things and burn out / melt down before dinner time otherwise. When they learned they could stay up to watch dancing shows etc after dinner if they slept in the afternoon they embraced the idea.
Normally however, they don't need to sleep. When my eldest started primary school, she would come home burned out and again, we'd send her to her room for 30odd minutes and she'd be fine again.
In general we have avoided routines though. Contrary to some, I can't see how regimented habits can help. Each to their own though.
Personally I have and have no problem with guests putting their kids down for a sleep in rooms in our house if the kids need it.
They're little humans, not dogs. They don't need behavioural training. They just need a loving environment, a feeling of security and good advice growing up.
I believe anyone who keeps their children awake because they believe it the right thing to do equally stupid to anyone who puts their children to bed at a set time every day just because they think it's the right thing to do - in each case irrespective of the specific child.
Mine are 6 and 4 years old now, and seldom nap now. We took them back to the hotel room to sleep mid afternoon on holiday in October because they would over do things and burn out / melt down before dinner time otherwise. When they learned they could stay up to watch dancing shows etc after dinner if they slept in the afternoon they embraced the idea.
Normally however, they don't need to sleep. When my eldest started primary school, she would come home burned out and again, we'd send her to her room for 30odd minutes and she'd be fine again.
In general we have avoided routines though. Contrary to some, I can't see how regimented habits can help. Each to their own though.
Personally I have and have no problem with guests putting their kids down for a sleep in rooms in our house if the kids need it.
They're little humans, not dogs. They don't need behavioural training. They just need a loving environment, a feeling of security and good advice growing up.
jamieduff1981 said:
I believe anyone who keeps their children awake because they believe it the right thing to do equally stupid to anyone who puts their children to bed at a set time every day.
Why so? Each day at around 1200 my 2yo is falling to sleep whether he's at home or at Nursery, also by 1900 he's conked out, routine does work for a lot of kids.Do you have 2 spare bedrooms? if so what's the issue? let them have a sleep.
If not then you will probably get rid of them quicker.
Don't judge others until you have kids yourself. Routine makes life massively easier for kids and parents so if you can stick to what they do as often as possible it will be a massive help.
If not then you will probably get rid of them quicker.
Don't judge others until you have kids yourself. Routine makes life massively easier for kids and parents so if you can stick to what they do as often as possible it will be a massive help.
Afternoon nap time = mum time / dad time. Can't blame her for keeping up with it, if it works for her family. But I can blame her for expecting others to go out of their way over it, for 1 day.
Having said that though how much effort is required, the younger one should be able to sleep in the buggy or on a mat on the floor, and older one is well able to go in a proper bed. Is it toileted yet? You might want a tarp on the bed.
Having said that though how much effort is required, the younger one should be able to sleep in the buggy or on a mat on the floor, and older one is well able to go in a proper bed. Is it toileted yet? You might want a tarp on the bed.
If maintaining the kids routines is what works for them - and it's not like they're twitchy new parents, not with a 4 year old, they've been round the block a few times, they won't be sticking to anything unworkable by now - then good luck to'em.
And yes, if this is a typically developing 4 year old, they will be expected to be fulltime by the September after their 5th birthday, but there may be context there we don't know, any in any case there's a long gap between barely turned 4 in December and the start of compulsory school.
And yes, if this is a typically developing 4 year old, they will be expected to be fulltime by the September after their 5th birthday, but there may be context there we don't know, any in any case there's a long gap between barely turned 4 in December and the start of compulsory school.
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