Help me rationalise - other people's childcare
Discussion
"Parents" know about naps. You are not a parent so I think having been warned/advised in advance is common courtesy. How would you feel if it was a friend who turned up with a new partner and then told you they were Vegan/lactose intolerant/gluten free instead of warning in advance?
As an aside, are the kids eating at your place, have you suitable food, or are the parent bringing it?
As an aside, are the kids eating at your place, have you suitable food, or are the parent bringing it?
One thing I've learned since having kids, whatever your thoughts about other kids and their parents, they're their kids and they should do what they feel is best with them. For us, a routine needs to be something to stick fairly strictly to, otherwise all hell breaks loose later on
What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
andy-xr said:
One thing I've learned since having kids, whatever your thoughts about other kids and their parents, they're their kids and they should do what they feel is best with them. For us, a routine needs to be something to stick fairly strictly to, otherwise all hell breaks loose later on
What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
Know the feeling- we've just semi fallen out with a friend who wanted us to come over to hers for lunch (50 min drive away- just enough for our 20 month old to fall asleep) which is great, but we said we'd be staying until his bedtime as I don't want him falling asleep in the car late afternoon then having to wake him up for an hour then try to get him back to sleep at bedtime. Much easier to get him in his pyjamas, let him fall asleep in the car then transfer him from car to cot in one smooth move.What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
Edited by lufbramatt on Tuesday 6th December 09:57
lufbramatt said:
andy-xr said:
One thing I've learned since having kids, whatever your thoughts about other kids and their parents, they're their kids and they should do what they feel is best with them. For us, a routine needs to be something to stick fairly strictly to, otherwise all hell breaks loose later on
What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
Know the feeling- we've just semi fallen out with a friend who wanted us to come over to hers for lunch (50 min drive away- just enough for our 20 month old to fall asleep) which is great, but we said we'd be staying until his bedtime as I don't want him falling asleep in the car late afternoon then having to wake him up for an hour then try to get him back to sleep at bedtime. Much easier to get him in his pyjamas, let him fall asleep in the car then transfer him from car to cot in one smooth move.What annoys me is possibly a similar situation to the OP, our B-i-L wants us to make the trip to see them and do x, y and z while we're there. If we can, we will, but we cant guarantee it'll go exactly like that. He's seen his arse over it, it probably didnt help that I told him we'd rather not have to do things by someone else's timetable but at least we know where we all stand now.
Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
Edited by lufbramatt on Tuesday 6th December 09:57
Some times it's time to move on from old acquaintances. When others no long bring joy to your life, cut them out. When it's so hard to schedule something around each others' conflicting requirements, it may well be time to just cut them loose.
Probably am being a pain in the arse, but only because I'd rather spend quality time with her being relaxed and not being herded in and out like cattle to fit around her hectic social calendar, and then not have to spend 2 hours trying to get a pissed off toddler to lie down and go to sleep, when the situation's easy to avoid.
In the past we would have just gone with it, but when there's another smaller person involved that can't communicate or understand what's going on in the same way an adult does then you have to do things a bit differently. If people think I'm being a pain in the arse that's their problem not mine
In the past we would have just gone with it, but when there's another smaller person involved that can't communicate or understand what's going on in the same way an adult does then you have to do things a bit differently. If people think I'm being a pain in the arse that's their problem not mine
Shakermaker said:
thanks to all for replying.
I certainly will "go with the flow" on the day, as I stated, I am not a parent yet myself so was asking some advice. Not my children.
But - does anyone else give 3 weeks notice that they will need to have this nap? I think this is what's odd about all this, the super advance notice.
Some parents do stick to a very rigid routine come what may; some play it by ear and adapt as required. Most are somewhere in between and nothing wrong with any of these as long as it works for them. I'm a father to a 5 year old and we tend to be at the very adaptable end of the spectrum. I also do the cooking and sort meals etc. so I would actually prefer to know as far in advance as possible so that I can plan things around our guests' needs, especially if they're at the other end of the "baby routine" scale. I certainly will "go with the flow" on the day, as I stated, I am not a parent yet myself so was asking some advice. Not my children.
But - does anyone else give 3 weeks notice that they will need to have this nap? I think this is what's odd about all this, the super advance notice.
Nanook said:
lufbramatt said:
Know the feeling- we've just semi fallen out with a friend who wanted us to come over to hers for lunch (50 min drive away- just enough for our 20 month old to fall asleep) which is great, but we said we'd be staying until his bedtime as I don't want him falling asleep in the car late afternoon then having to wake him up for an hour then try to get him back to sleep at bedtime. Much easier to get him in his pyjamas, let him fall asleep in the car then transfer him from car to cot in one smooth move.
Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
She completely doesn't get the issue?Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
Edited by lufbramatt on Tuesday 6th December 09:57
She's invited you over, but has plans later on, and you don't want to leave because you don't want your child to nap in the car then get back up?
Yeah, you perhaps won't see too much of this friend in future, because you sound like a bit of a pain in the arse.
Honestly, the selfishness of some people beggars belief.
jamieduff1981 said:
They're little humans, not dogs. They don't need behavioural training. They just need a loving environment, a feeling of security and good advice growing up.
I disagree - I think they need conditioning in a way which is not completely incomparable to training a dog, in the very early years. I see many parents with 1-4 year olds who don't seem to have the slightest grip on them whatsoever - permissive, un-authoritative and inconsistent because they can't seem to be firm until they reach the end of their tether.They don't need a spare room each, you don't need to change bedding, they won't need a set of towels. They just need somewhere quiet (ish), warm (ish) and comfortable (ish).
A quiet bedroom each, with a duvet on the floor to lie on will be perfect, that way they won't roll out of bed with a crash. They're a fun age then, when they're not broken from tiredness. They're a bloody nightmare when they are broken.
A quiet bedroom each, with a duvet on the floor to lie on will be perfect, that way they won't roll out of bed with a crash. They're a fun age then, when they're not broken from tiredness. They're a bloody nightmare when they are broken.
All varies. If they have a rigid routine already then disrupting it might not be for the best. The request sounds a bit arsey, but on the other hand it's not tricky to fulfil and gives the adults an hour together, and probably leads to less tension with tired kids?
No two kids are the same. Your 3 year old doesn't have an afternoon sleep, but will fall asleep in the car on even short journeys.
The converse argument is that many complain that kids aren't shown enough discipline these days - and this routine looks like part of that structure and discipline .
No two kids are the same. Your 3 year old doesn't have an afternoon sleep, but will fall asleep in the car on even short journeys.
The converse argument is that many complain that kids aren't shown enough discipline these days - and this routine looks like part of that structure and discipline .
QuickQuack said:
What in the name of...? You've got to be kidding, right? You expect other people to cancel all the plans, which could potentially let a large number of others down, cancellation of expensive tickets for a show etc., just because you're incapable of entertaining a toddler in the car? Get your wife/other half to sit in the back on the way back and keep him busy and awake, it's not that difficult.
Honestly, the selfishness of some people beggars belief.
Indeed. It's easy to find something to occupy a small child pretty much anywhere these days if you're incapable of doing so yourself. Look for soft play/animal stuff/park near to the friend's and go there until it's time to go home.Honestly, the selfishness of some people beggars belief.
If I dropped contact with childless friends just because their life didn't fit in with my daughter's I'd hardly see anyone. Your child, your responsibility - not theirs.
QuickQuack said:
Shakermaker said:
thanks to all for replying.
I certainly will "go with the flow" on the day, as I stated, I am not a parent yet myself so was asking some advice. Not my children.
But - does anyone else give 3 weeks notice that they will need to have this nap? I think this is what's odd about all this, the super advance notice.
Some parents do stick to a very rigid routine come what may; some play it by ear and adapt as required. Most are somewhere in between and nothing wrong with any of these as long as it works for them. I'm a father to a 5 year old and we tend to be at the very adaptable end of the spectrum. I also do the cooking and sort meals etc. so I would actually prefer to know as far in advance as possible so that I can plan things around our guests' needs, especially if they're at the other end of the "baby routine" scale. I certainly will "go with the flow" on the day, as I stated, I am not a parent yet myself so was asking some advice. Not my children.
But - does anyone else give 3 weeks notice that they will need to have this nap? I think this is what's odd about all this, the super advance notice.
Nanook said:
lufbramatt said:
Know the feeling- we've just semi fallen out with a friend who wanted us to come over to hers for lunch (50 min drive away- just enough for our 20 month old to fall asleep) which is great, but we said we'd be staying until his bedtime as I don't want him falling asleep in the car late afternoon then having to wake him up for an hour then try to get him back to sleep at bedtime. Much easier to get him in his pyjamas, let him fall asleep in the car then transfer him from car to cot in one smooth move.
Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
She completely doesn't get the issue?Oh no we can't do that as she's one of these double busy people and had made arrangements to go do something else in the evening. Completely doesn't get the issue. Some mates get it, some don't, you quickly realise that you see much more of the ones that do.
We're pretty flexible with naps though, you can see when he's tired, so you put him down for a nap, but sometimes he will go all day without a nap and be fine in the evening. Just a case of watching for the signs and actually paying attention to his body language.
Edited by lufbramatt on Tuesday 6th December 09:57
She's invited you over, but has plans later on, and you don't want to leave because you don't want your child to nap in the car then get back up?
Yeah, you perhaps won't see too much of this friend in future, because you sound like a bit of a pain in the arse.
Honestly, the selfishness of some people beggars belief.
theboss said:
jamieduff1981 said:
They're little humans, not dogs. They don't need behavioural training. They just need a loving environment, a feeling of security and good advice growing up.
I disagree - I think they need conditioning in a way which is not completely incomparable to training a dog, in the very early years. I see many parents with 1-4 year olds who don't seem to have the slightest grip on them whatsoever - permissive, un-authoritative and inconsistent because they can't seem to be firm until they reach the end of their tether.
king mental because they haven't got some blanket their parents' routines have unintentionally led to attachments over, or that they didn't get their ritualistic 30 minutes of TV time as soon as they got in the door.Nanook said:
jamieduff1981 said:
I'm with Matt actually. Not in criticising others or anything like that, just that my family needs trump absolutely everyone elses' as far as we're concerned and if our needs don't work for others, then it's not worth seeing them. Nobody's "friendship" is worth that much to me. On a personal level, I don't find being "slotted in" to someone's schedule very flattering either so if an invite appears like that, I'll politely pass. I won't miss them and they won't miss me. That's not a friendship, it's a duty that neither is likely to enjoy very much so why bother?
I sort of see where you're coming from, but we're not talking about your families need to eat, requirements for healthcare, warmth, or love.We're talking about a slight inconvenience to the kids nap time.
Perhaps it's just me, but if I was that precious about my kids sleeping patterns, instead of demanding to stay as long as I want, or falling out with said friend because they actually still have a social life, I'd invite them over to my place. Make sense, no?
Some miserable f
kers on here, someone invites you over for lunch, but has plans in the evening, and so that's not actually a friendship, that's a duty?Kids turn decent people into arses
Friends wise, what has happened before is that we've had numerous invites to go on holidays with child-free friends who pre-date the children who want to go to resorts centred around late night drinking with bugger all for children to do. They then see us go away somewhere with other friends that's more family friendly and take the hump. There's even people who assume we'd love to use our budget and 2 weeks off together offloading the children onto my mother and going partying like we were students again - err, no, I quite like my children and if I have 2 weeks off work I would much prefer to be with my family. But it's a shift in mindset. We have many more guests at our place now than we ever used to have.
Those of us with children have been without children previously. Those who have never had only know one way of thinking. For that reason, I think the onus is on parents to understand that it's they who have changed and that others perhaps are still trying to be friends with the pre-children version of the parents. People change. Having kids is a big change!
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I'm with you.Two sets of friends have recently had kids, we all met up at the pub for lunch recently. One set of parents very adaptable turned up on time and because the high chairs available weren't great left their son in the pushchair fed him there and let him sleep, the other set turned up late delaying all of our lunches because their precious little darling needs to nap at a fixed time and wasn't ready in time. High chair wasn't good enough, how are we going to feed her? Put her on your f
king lap perhaps? Feed her in her pushchair? She then whinged the whole time not coping well with not being the centre of attention.Some parents seem to make everything far more difficult than it needs to be including having completely inflexible routines which is utterly ridiculous and others just go with the flow making concessions where necessary. Having children obviously changes life and priorities but some people seem to adapt to those changes better than others. I'm guessing if you're anally retentive before, having kids is going to make you ten time worse. That's certainly the case with my friends.
OP
Fair play to the sister in law letting you know early. Just have somewhere comfy and safe set up for them to nap. Routine can be hugely important to some kids. Eeven if for selfish motivation, your and her aims are aligned, If the kids are rested and happy, you will have as much fun as possible.
Son#1 used to get truly awful night terrors if his sleep patterns were messed about with at all. You honestly don't want anything like that going on as it ruins the atmos somewhat.
The guff about clean sheets/towels/rose petals etc. is basically code for not a single blokes room with a sheet like a poppadum or a part built motorbike.
ETA.
If you have the room, setting up a little tent can be a great fun way to make it memorable. Indoor camping
Fair play to the sister in law letting you know early. Just have somewhere comfy and safe set up for them to nap. Routine can be hugely important to some kids. Eeven if for selfish motivation, your and her aims are aligned, If the kids are rested and happy, you will have as much fun as possible.
Son#1 used to get truly awful night terrors if his sleep patterns were messed about with at all. You honestly don't want anything like that going on as it ruins the atmos somewhat.
The guff about clean sheets/towels/rose petals etc. is basically code for not a single blokes room with a sheet like a poppadum or a part built motorbike.
ETA.
If you have the room, setting up a little tent can be a great fun way to make it memorable. Indoor camping
lufbramatt said:
Probably am being a pain in the arse, but only because I'd rather spend quality time with her being relaxed and not being herded in and out like cattle to fit around her hectic social calendar, and then not have to spend 2 hours trying to get a pissed off toddler to lie down and go to sleep, when the situation's easy to avoid.
In the past we would have just gone with it, but when there's another smaller person involved that can't communicate or understand what's going on in the same way an adult does then you have to do things a bit differently. If people think I'm being a pain in the arse that's their problem not mine
Just fill the gap with a local soft play. Little 'un won't sleep then until its pyjamas and car time. In the past we would have just gone with it, but when there's another smaller person involved that can't communicate or understand what's going on in the same way an adult does then you have to do things a bit differently. If people think I'm being a pain in the arse that's their problem not mine
Easy
LemonParty said:
Have I stumbled into Mumsnet?
(and yes - I have a 14 month old!)
No. I'm sure if I had started this topic on Mumsnet I would be given all sort of acronym titles and be told that I didn't understand, would never understand until I had children, do everything you can around the children, they are important, I am evil cos I'm a man, and get no actual useful information at all. (and yes - I have a 14 month old!)
And probably stumble across the sister in law lurking on there as well...
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