Is your job at risk from A.I. ?
Discussion
Workers pay taxes. Workers spend money. Robots do neither. Robots make savings for companies so they can sell their goods cheaper or with higher profit margins - but to who, those workers that no linger have jobs...?
Having worked in IT for many years, many of the lower paid jobs have disappeared when technology takes over. If you don't think it can happen in your industry, you are probably wrong, and someone is probably already working on the solution that makes you unemployed.
I'd be quite happy to go to a pub, have my drinks dispensed by an automated system, and pay for with a wave of a contactless card, than wait for someone to get around to serving me. Go to pub with friends, not to chat to bar servers. Unless "epic tits" are involved...
Having worked in IT for many years, many of the lower paid jobs have disappeared when technology takes over. If you don't think it can happen in your industry, you are probably wrong, and someone is probably already working on the solution that makes you unemployed.
I'd be quite happy to go to a pub, have my drinks dispensed by an automated system, and pay for with a wave of a contactless card, than wait for someone to get around to serving me. Go to pub with friends, not to chat to bar servers. Unless "epic tits" are involved...
I think this is where Trump is on the ball with outsourcing jobs to the lowest cost.
Some say he's as pro-business as it gets, possibly yes, but at the same time he seems to state that his legacy is going to be about bringing jobs back from the lowest bidder (ie China) back to the USA.
So if the same can be done with AI ? (in some form or other)
I guess this may need global level trade regulations that also apply at the domestic level to protect jobs from company profit margins.
(if that is possible)
But I think the 'driving' factor is that some companies can automate whilst others can not (yet). So there is the competitive edge that is creating this desire for automation. As like I said in my first post, if all companies were to automate, then there would be no people earning money to spend. Rendering companies useless, and also cause the falling of how an economy operates.
So a global regulation would bring all companies to the same level and thus remove the competitive edge on automation.
Some say he's as pro-business as it gets, possibly yes, but at the same time he seems to state that his legacy is going to be about bringing jobs back from the lowest bidder (ie China) back to the USA.
So if the same can be done with AI ? (in some form or other)
I guess this may need global level trade regulations that also apply at the domestic level to protect jobs from company profit margins.
(if that is possible)
But I think the 'driving' factor is that some companies can automate whilst others can not (yet). So there is the competitive edge that is creating this desire for automation. As like I said in my first post, if all companies were to automate, then there would be no people earning money to spend. Rendering companies useless, and also cause the falling of how an economy operates.
So a global regulation would bring all companies to the same level and thus remove the competitive edge on automation.
Atomic12C said:
There are a lot of news feeds relating to Artificial Intelligence replacing jobs in the near future, with even Elon Musk stating something along the lines that many jobs will be lost to automation by the year 2050.
BUT, the problem I see with this is that if companies are to replace people with machines, then people are not able to earn.
Which means people are then not able to buy company's products or services.
So it would seem to be a move to shoot one's self in the foot for companies to replace people with machines at the promise of "profit increase".
Would others agree?
BUT, the problem I see with this is that if companies are to replace people with machines, then people are not able to earn.
Which means people are then not able to buy company's products or services.
So it would seem to be a move to shoot one's self in the foot for companies to replace people with machines at the promise of "profit increase".
Would others agree?
Yes, well, I thought similar. My job is safe for numerous reasons.BUT
Imagine 75% of people are replaced by robots. That means that 75% of people are unemployed/broke. That means that 75% of people definitely couldn't afford to pay for my services. So I'm making 75% less.
I've just sent a robot into the past to shoot Elon Musk's mum.
stuartmmcfc said:
sherman said:
I work in a pub. My industry will be one of the last to be mechanised as the customer likes the interaction between humans. Bars could easily be ran by computers but people find them cold.
If the beer in an automated pub is half the price?We'll all get paid a living allowance, I reckon. Proposed and voted down this year https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/05/swis... in Switzerland, but the idea will bounce back. It has to really. The alternative is keeping technology at bay, but tech really doesn't have borders so that's probably a non-starter.
sherman said:
Why do people go to the pub now and not just buy from a supermarket and stay at home all the time?
They do, I think its only in city centres these days where you see people out and about on 'nights out' these days.Many towns and out of city centre areas are 'dead', as people choose to drink cheap alcohol from supermarkets and have friends round their home as an alternative.
Also compounding this is that people used to gather at weekends to catch up on each other's lives, this is now the job of facebook which gives details of what people are doing to the minute.
Terminator X said:
Alex said:
This is known as the "Luddite Fallacy". The reality is that technology and automation increase productivity and human workers take on new roles.
What do you suggest the taxi drivers do instead?TX.
Atomic12C said:
They do, I think its only in city centres these days where you see people out and about on 'nights out' these days.
Many towns and out of city centre areas are 'dead', as people choose to drink cheap alcohol from supermarkets and have friends round their home as an alternative.
Also compounding this is that people used to gather at weekends to catch up on each other's lives, this is now the job of facebook which gives details of what people are doing to the minute.
Just as well I work in a busy city centre pub in edinburgh then. Where people who are on holiday and cant go back home for a meal so have to come to us.Many towns and out of city centre areas are 'dead', as people choose to drink cheap alcohol from supermarkets and have friends round their home as an alternative.
Also compounding this is that people used to gather at weekends to catch up on each other's lives, this is now the job of facebook which gives details of what people are doing to the minute.
Fastdruid said:
Find a new career. Same as farriers, horse holders, coopers, chimney sweeps, night soil men etc had to when their careers were killed off.
Notice you didn't throw 'miners' in to the mix, probably as most of them are still on the dole 
I think the point I would come back with on this is that it is the rate of change that will leave people with no alternative.
Remember that society exists on a very thin veneer of social order. I don't think it would take much at all for people to lose all hope for the future if too many are not able to make a living. (A living that include constant increase of quality - anything less is generally not accepted).
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Those are service jobs (which a large percentage of the jobs in the UK now are). The problem is the service industry relies on people having an income to spend on services. If the people creating value have no income because they have lose their jobs to robots etc they will not spend their money on a lifestyle coach for example. So in time the service industry will have issues too. Yes, there will be some new types of jobs created, but the amount of jobs created is far less than those they replace, and until around 2100 (or later) the world population is ever increasing, resulting in more competition for jobs.Fastdruid said:
Find a new career. Same as farriers, horse holders, coopers, chimney sweeps, night soil men etc had to when their careers were killed off.
Jobs moved from manual labour, to thinking jobs. These people are now sat in call centers, servicing cars, or stacking supermarket shelves. Because these things require a human brain to be efficient. Remove the requirement for a human to do the processing of any job. When machines can work harder, longer, and think up better solutions to any given situation. AI should be as good or better than a human at everything a human can do. Otherwise the "I" part is missing.
What job is it that you think an average human could do in that situation?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Imho you're missing the key difference this time which is that "skilled" jobs will disappear not manual jobs. If someone has a specialist job that they have trained for all their life what will they do next? Immediately they will go from a 20 year experience / training wage down to no experience at all and f
k all money.http://medicalfuturist.com/will-robots-take-over-o...
TX.
I work on the railway.
Station staff could be wiped away tomorrow with internet tickets/ ticket machines (would still have people who want complex journey bookings or information that they can't find online)
Conductors will eventually be gone and their duties given to train drivers (driver then has to check 2 or 3 screens with multiple cctv cameras on them to check the platforms are safe.
I know the internet has revolutionised how we run our lives. Can buy train tickets online without waiting in a queue for example. Same with buying petrol paying at the pump.
I do wonder what happens when AI has gone so far that it does take a lot of employees jobs.
People losing their jobs purely for more profit for companies. Aren't profits of these huge corporations already big enough?
Station staff could be wiped away tomorrow with internet tickets/ ticket machines (would still have people who want complex journey bookings or information that they can't find online)
Conductors will eventually be gone and their duties given to train drivers (driver then has to check 2 or 3 screens with multiple cctv cameras on them to check the platforms are safe.
I know the internet has revolutionised how we run our lives. Can buy train tickets online without waiting in a queue for example. Same with buying petrol paying at the pump.
I do wonder what happens when AI has gone so far that it does take a lot of employees jobs.
People losing their jobs purely for more profit for companies. Aren't profits of these huge corporations already big enough?
BlueFiestaST said:
I work on the railway.
...... their duties given to train drivers (driver then has to check 2 or 3 screens with multiple cctv cameras on them to check the platforms are safe.
Are you a driver by any chance ? - The AI can drive the train and the image recognition will be able to figure out that it is safe to close the doors etc etc. ...... their duties given to train drivers (driver then has to check 2 or 3 screens with multiple cctv cameras on them to check the platforms are safe.
Train drivers are the top of my list of jobs that are already not actually required in an autonomous world. Bring on lower cost train journeys.....
Bob
and for those who want a fairly entertaining long read on the subject
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intellige...
Bob
http://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intellige...
Bob
This is a the crux, technology can no doubt improve our lives. I'm sure many would love Apple or Google to invent a house robot who can clean, iron etc as it removes time spent on boring chores that could be used to do something more interesting intead.
However companies using AI\Automation to improve their bottom line at the expense of jobs for people? I really think this is something that needs thinking about very carefully as the logical end result of it is that people won't have money to spend on products that these big companies sell.
Yes technology has put people out of work before but the implications of AI are a lot more far reaching then just effecting a comparatively small number of people in a particular job area as has happened previously. Putting a few thousand farriers out of work is small fry compared to the millions of people who would be effected if AI or even a reasonable facsimile thereof became a reality. It wouldn't even have to be true AI, I can think of very few modern jobs that couldn't be done quicker, cheaper, more efficiently by even a reasonably semi-intelligent, well programmed machine or computer.
However companies using AI\Automation to improve their bottom line at the expense of jobs for people? I really think this is something that needs thinking about very carefully as the logical end result of it is that people won't have money to spend on products that these big companies sell.
Yes technology has put people out of work before but the implications of AI are a lot more far reaching then just effecting a comparatively small number of people in a particular job area as has happened previously. Putting a few thousand farriers out of work is small fry compared to the millions of people who would be effected if AI or even a reasonable facsimile thereof became a reality. It wouldn't even have to be true AI, I can think of very few modern jobs that couldn't be done quicker, cheaper, more efficiently by even a reasonably semi-intelligent, well programmed machine or computer.
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