Getting my daughter into school mid year.
Discussion
turbobloke said:
That warrants formal escalation. The headteacher knows that what she said does not represent an acceptable admissions criterion under the national Schools Admissions Code and she is very wrong with her open but culpable statement. But she said it anyway.
If your daughter had special educational needs, rather than simply having been taught under a different curriculum, that too would be no basis for pre-empting an admissions decision simply because she might take the school's average down. Tough titty, headteacher.
You don't have to accept this and should start a formal complaint if you still want your daughter to attend that school. The head's attitude to your daughter will change after his or her backside has been booted. If there's another school with a better headteacher who understands admissions regulations, you could try again of course.
We had something similar - in terms of a megalomaniac headteacher, not admissions related though - who over-reacted to a minor disciplinary matter with one of mine, and we would have supported the school to the hilt but for the headteacher's arrogance in imposing an indefinite exclusion when such a move was unavailable to him. Initially the governors supported the headteacher but we sent the Chair a copy of the government's policy for state schools and they back-tracked at speed. Get a copy of the Admissions Code online and if you want to take it further, you can do so.
This definitly sounds interesting. I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't given us the rejection letter is for just the above reasons: they can't just decide not to let her in, but they don't want to put that sentence, or the equivalent, on paper!If your daughter had special educational needs, rather than simply having been taught under a different curriculum, that too would be no basis for pre-empting an admissions decision simply because she might take the school's average down. Tough titty, headteacher.
You don't have to accept this and should start a formal complaint if you still want your daughter to attend that school. The head's attitude to your daughter will change after his or her backside has been booted. If there's another school with a better headteacher who understands admissions regulations, you could try again of course.
We had something similar - in terms of a megalomaniac headteacher, not admissions related though - who over-reacted to a minor disciplinary matter with one of mine, and we would have supported the school to the hilt but for the headteacher's arrogance in imposing an indefinite exclusion when such a move was unavailable to him. Initially the governors supported the headteacher but we sent the Chair a copy of the government's policy for state schools and they back-tracked at speed. Get a copy of the Admissions Code online and if you want to take it further, you can do so.
If, for instance, there was some bone idle dimbo in the class who was obviously not going to pass anything, the school has no right to refuse him entry, or kick him out. And that is pretty much what they have done to my daughter. They don't think she'll pass, so keep her out.
Schools gain students at this point in the school year ALL THE TIME: people don't generally have the luxury of planning their international moves based on the GCSE system and they know this perfectly well. The occasional refugee arriving at the school I went to was usually entered in just a few GCSEs, depending on learning history, English spoken etc - potentially maths, French if they had already been learning it, their first language if there was a GCSE in it (less likely now, I suspect).
I suspect all of these discussions are better conducted with the LEA (who care, quite rightly, about their legal duty to provide some form of education to every under-18 living in their patch) rather than the school (who seem to be under the impression that their job is to pass exams rather than to educate children). Yes, this year isn't gonna result in a great GCSE outcome, yes, dropping down a year may be a good idea… and the thing about maturity is bull, the denizens of any single school year span a pretty huge range in terms of maturity, especially at this age as young adults.
I suspect all of these discussions are better conducted with the LEA (who care, quite rightly, about their legal duty to provide some form of education to every under-18 living in their patch) rather than the school (who seem to be under the impression that their job is to pass exams rather than to educate children). Yes, this year isn't gonna result in a great GCSE outcome, yes, dropping down a year may be a good idea… and the thing about maturity is bull, the denizens of any single school year span a pretty huge range in terms of maturity, especially at this age as young adults.
We arrived in December a few years ago with three kids but a little younger than yours. As already stated, you have to go through the LEA who will allocate you a school. We ended up with 3 different schools which was logistically challenging but nothing we could do about it.
I would suggest that dropping down a year in order to get a good run at the GCSEs is going to be the best thing in the longer term for your daughter educationally. As you say, she is bright and may well want to have the opportunity to go on to A Levels and University. The reality is that Universities (and potential employers) will look at her GCSE attainment as an indicator of how well she will do at A level so without some reasonable to good grades she will limit the choices she has.
Socially it maybe better, if she does repeat, to go to a new school as her friends from before your move are in a higher year.
Another thought, is there an American School within commuting distance where she could pick up the same curriculum and exam system as she was following in the Philippines? It's going to be fee paying but it may offer an alternative that would work.
I would suggest that dropping down a year in order to get a good run at the GCSEs is going to be the best thing in the longer term for your daughter educationally. As you say, she is bright and may well want to have the opportunity to go on to A Levels and University. The reality is that Universities (and potential employers) will look at her GCSE attainment as an indicator of how well she will do at A level so without some reasonable to good grades she will limit the choices she has.
Socially it maybe better, if she does repeat, to go to a new school as her friends from before your move are in a higher year.
Another thought, is there an American School within commuting distance where she could pick up the same curriculum and exam system as she was following in the Philippines? It's going to be fee paying but it may offer an alternative that would work.
Dicky Knee said:
Another thought, is there an American School within commuting distance where she could pick up the same curriculum and exam system as she was following in the Philippines? It's going to be fee paying but it may offer an alternative that would work.
I'm not sure the American system prepares people very well for UK Universities, though that is based on dated experiences.I'd be minded to encourage her to at least retake the year, if not both. She can be the cool kid with the stories of life in the Far East - try to turn the experience into an asset rather than "held back"
Maybe get an independent tutor in the core subjects to spend an hour with her to take their opinion of the gaps and readiness (i.e. does she need both years of GCSE or just one with support)?
I don't know of any American schools anyehere near here.
I have suggested she drop back a year, but the school just seem adamant they don't want her in.
Today should see some progress as the promised yesterday that we would have our official response from the school.
I'm guessing they made their original decision because we didn"t appear to know the procedures, so they thought they could pull a fast one on us.
I have suggested she drop back a year, but the school just seem adamant they don't want her in.
Today should see some progress as the promised yesterday that we would have our official response from the school.
I'm guessing they made their original decision because we didn"t appear to know the procedures, so they thought they could pull a fast one on us.
King Herald said:
I don't know of any American schools anyehere near here.
I have suggested she drop back a year, but the school just seem adamant they don't want her in.
Today should see some progress as the promised yesterday that we would have our official response from the school.
I'm guessing they made their original decision because we didn"t appear to know the procedures, so they thought they could pull a fast one on us.
At the next meeting, why not take a print-out of the national Schools Admissions Code and make sure the front cover is visible I have suggested she drop back a year, but the school just seem adamant they don't want her in.
Today should see some progress as the promised yesterday that we would have our official response from the school.
I'm guessing they made their original decision because we didn"t appear to know the procedures, so they thought they could pull a fast one on us.
you may well not need to quote from it at all and can explain it as bedtime reading for later if asked (so that you won't be expected to recite it from memory!).turbobloke said:
At the next meeting, why not take a print-out of the national Schools Admissions Code and make sure the front cover is visible you may well not need to quote from it at all and can explain it as bedtime reading for later if asked (so that you won't be expected to recite it from memory!).
I had just that same thought earlier, maybe drop a few names or brief regulations into conversation. you may well not need to quote from it at all and can explain it as bedtime reading for later if asked (so that you won't be expected to recite it from memory!).Unfortunatly we don't have a printer yet, we're still setting a bare house up after moving.
The school my daughters go to (and I assume that the same applies elsewhere) is suffering from a massive change in the curriculum and exam system which hits the school imminently (my eldest is 15 in a couple of months and will be in the first year to have the new system).
They may feel that having another pupil into the class who hasn't been on the UK system, let alone the new system could have a big impact on the rest of the class.
That said, I still think that they have an obligation to take and educate.
They may feel that having another pupil into the class who hasn't been on the UK system, let alone the new system could have a big impact on the rest of the class.
That said, I still think that they have an obligation to take and educate.
TooLateForAName said:
The school my daughters go to (and I assume that the same applies elsewhere) is suffering from a massive change in the curriculum and exam system which hits the school imminently (my eldest is 15 in a couple of months and will be in the first year to have the new system).
They may feel that having another pupil into the class who hasn't been on the UK system, let alone the new system could have a big impact on the rest of the class.
That said, I still think that they have an obligation to take and educate.
I just got the rejection letter from the school, 1 1/2 pages of waffle, stating pretty much what you have pointed out above, that she will upset the class, and she would be 'diasadvantaged'. They may feel that having another pupil into the class who hasn't been on the UK system, let alone the new system could have a big impact on the rest of the class.
That said, I still think that they have an obligation to take and educate.
I have been to the county council education department, they gave me a number to ring, and I was basically told we can either appeal, or apply at another school. They are our only options.
The college also had a visit, and they to state there is no logical way she can join in the middle of the year.
King Herald said:
I just got the rejection letter from the school, 1 1/2 pages of waffle, stating pretty much what you have pointed out above, that she will upset the class, and she would be 'diasadvantaged'.
I have been to the county council education department, they gave me a number to ring, and I was basically told we can either appeal, or apply at another school. They are our only options.
The college also had a visit, and they to state there is no logical way she can join in the middle of the year.
Check the enrollment criteria, I'm pretty sure school's can't reject someone if they aren't full (and I guess they aren't otherwise they would have rejected you on these grounds) if you live in catchment.I have been to the county council education department, they gave me a number to ring, and I was basically told we can either appeal, or apply at another school. They are our only options.
The college also had a visit, and they to state there is no logical way she can join in the middle of the year.
If so you can appeal on the school not following the correct procedure and will likely be successful. (once you submit an appeal our LEA had 30 days to set hearing and then another 7 to decide so it's not super quick)
King Herald said:
That would be the subject of the appeal, and that can take up to nine weeks. I fear the school are just playing for tiime now.
We may appeal, just to piss them off, and also apply at another school as well.
Be careful, if you do appeal (and follow it through) the outcome is legally binding so you will have to send you daughter there, even if she's started somewhere else.We may appeal, just to piss them off, and also apply at another school as well.
WestyCarl said:
Be careful, if you do appeal (and follow it through) the outcome is legally binding so you will have to send you daughter there, even if she's started somewhere else.
I was vaguely thinking the education department might do more than they have, but they offer nothing more than 'appeal the decision, or try another school'.Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.
Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?
All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.
Sounds very much like the school head is more interested in her school stats than actually educating a child . A very sad reflection of modern eduction systems .
Have you searched for American Community Schools .
I know they have schools in Greater London and the home counties .
I had a similar problem many years ago on return from school in Singapore in the November and was due to take exams in the following summer .
I ended up studying on my own at school and taking separate exams as I had been doing a different syllabus. Mind you it was back in 70/71. Good luck
Have you searched for American Community Schools .
I know they have schools in Greater London and the home counties .
I had a similar problem many years ago on return from school in Singapore in the November and was due to take exams in the following summer .
I ended up studying on my own at school and taking separate exams as I had been doing a different syllabus. Mind you it was back in 70/71. Good luck
How coincidental, I too came back from Singapore in 1970, had to take the 11 plus pretty soon after, but I did manage to pass it and go on to grammar school.
We're in the Midlands, no American schools anywhere near us. Even so, they would be private, and expensive, for a guess.
You are correct, it is definitely the head teacher who is interested only in the overall image of her school. However, that specific sentence she gave us at the end of our meeting: "if she fails it will reflect on me" does not appear in the rejection letter.
We're in the Midlands, no American schools anywhere near us. Even so, they would be private, and expensive, for a guess.
You are correct, it is definitely the head teacher who is interested only in the overall image of her school. However, that specific sentence she gave us at the end of our meeting: "if she fails it will reflect on me" does not appear in the rejection letter.
King Herald said:
I was vaguely thinking the education department might do more than they have, but they offer nothing more than 'appeal the decision, or try another school'.
Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.
Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?
All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.
Many/most sixth forms use GCSEs as an entry requirement to be allowed to do A levels: as such, trying to sit GCSEs on 5 months learning time rather than the usual 21-ish months really isn't a good idea for someone who, with sufficient time and teaching, will easily be able to get good grades. So probably worth refocusing totally on finding her a Year 10 place somewhere, being just one year older than her classmates won't be a big deal unless someone makes it a big deal (odds are in a big secondary school she won't be the only one, there are a lot of reasons why a kid might end up a year 'behind') and kids mature at very different rates anyway.Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.
Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?
All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.
She doesn't need to know that the school didn't want her and the individual teachers won't know either, admissions doesn't go anywhere near your standard frontline classroom teacher.
My local authority has an admissions form for all school age children that you fill in with three choices of school for your kid, they do the rest - your LEA probably has something very similar. http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500322/secondary...
King Herald said:
I was vaguely thinking the education department might do more than they have, but they offer nothing more than 'appeal the decision, or try another school'.
Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.
Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?
All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.
All circumstances are different, however for us we choose the best school (not just for results) for my lad, got rejected but then appealed (successfully) to get him in.Would she be happy in a school that didn't want her, and maybe a vindictive staff? Not saying they would be, but it is a possibility.
Or should we just apply to another school and then wait around for a week or two again?
All the time the clock is ticking towards these gce exams.
I'm sure the head / staff won't be vindictive, they have nothing to gain from that and your Daughter will never know.
FlyingMeeces said:
Many/most sixth forms use GCSEs as an entry requirement to be allowed to do A levels: as such, trying to sit GCSEs on 5 months learning time rather than the usual 21-ish months really isn't a good idea for someone who, with sufficient time and teaching, will easily be able to get good grades. So probably worth refocusing totally on finding her a Year 10 place somewhere, being just one year older than her classmates won't be a big deal unless someone makes it a big deal (odds are in a big secondary school she won't be the only one, there are a lot of reasons why a kid might end up a year 'behind') and kids mature at very different rates anyway.
She doesn't need to know that the school didn't want her and the individual teachers won't know either, admissions doesn't go anywhere near your standard frontline classroom teacher.
My local authority has an admissions form for all school age children that you fill in with three choices of school for your kid, they do the rest - your LEA probably has something very similar. http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500322/secondary...
The schools in our town aren't really that big, and my daughter is already well aware of everything thy is going on, she comes with me to the school each time. She doesn't need to know that the school didn't want her and the individual teachers won't know either, admissions doesn't go anywhere near your standard frontline classroom teacher.
My local authority has an admissions form for all school age children that you fill in with three choices of school for your kid, they do the rest - your LEA probably has something very similar. http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500322/secondary...
As mentioned earlier, I already suggested to the school she be allowed to enter a year lower that she would normally be in, but the guy who appears to make the official statements says she is basically too mature to put in that year. Her birthday is July 13' so she would effectively be the oldest in that year, instead of the youngest in her current year.
They basically told us she would be better starting afresh in college, to take GCE's, but that means waiting until September.
We will go to another school today, the one my wife originally wanted, and apply for her to join one year lower. Then we can see what happens.
Fozziebear said:
^ This. My ex took my daughter out of school at 15, apparently the other kids were saying nasty things to her, home educated her with zero push back from authorities and education bods. She's now 17, 18 next month and at college sitting her gcse, so a bit of a cock up on mums side. If your daughter is smart, I have no doubt she isn't, she will be fine.
How and where would we find the necessary paraphernalia to home school? I assume there would be no GCE exams involved, and to get them she would need to go to college.Strangely enough, I think I have been reasonably succesful in life, as a mere grease monkey, and have retired early at 55, but nobody has ever asked to see any qualifications from school days. Luckily...
King Herald said:
How and where would we find the necessary paraphernalia to home school? I assume there would be no GCE exams involved, and to get them she would need to go to college.
I am doing a distance learning course through the National Extension College. I've found them OK, and they cover GCSE courses/examshttps://www.nec.ac.uk/course-categories/gcses-igcs...
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