Getting my daughter into school mid year.
Discussion
King Herald said:
Vaud said:
You have to feel for schools in this situation. A league table mentality and they get handed a child that doesn't speak English, who is probably still in shock from the change in circumstances and yet they will be held to the same measures of success.
Shame that schools can't exclude mid-year joiners from stats, or can they?
Errrr....Shame that schools can't exclude mid-year joiners from stats, or can they?
My point is I see why schools default position is not inclusion unless forced to. The fault is systemic.
Countdown said:
King Herald said:
Countdown said:
OP - is it a Local Authority school or an Academy?
It was a local school for years, then had a brief period as a 'sports academy' then went back to being a normal school, albeit with a different name. I inquired about the changes and was told it was an attempt to get more money out of the government......If it's still technically an Academy then the LA will have zero control over it's admission policy. If it's transferred back to LA control then the LA will have more say-so but not necessarily the final say-so.
If it were me, I'd be looking at the scholarship assessments (if she is bright as you say) for the local indi schools with a view to starting in Sept 2017. You may well get a sympathetic ear as they have charitable status and may well be persuaded to provide a bursary option.
I have no problem with putting her in college, indi school, private school, college etc in September, but I don't want her hanging around with thumb up bum for the next nine months when the law basically states she HAS to be in school.
Just filling in the application form for another school and it asks why that is our 'preferred school' and also points out we should have met with the head teacher in advance. Obviously, there is a choice to accept her or not, so there is obviously NO policy that schools can't make such decisions.
Just filling in the application form for another school and it asks why that is our 'preferred school' and also points out we should have met with the head teacher in advance. Obviously, there is a choice to accept her or not, so there is obviously NO policy that schools can't make such decisions.
Countdown said:
King Herald said:
Countdown said:
OP - is it a Local Authority school or an Academy?
It was a local school for years, then had a brief period as a 'sports academy' then went back to being a normal school, albeit with a different name. I inquired about the changes and was told it was an attempt to get more money out of the government......Countdown said:
If it's still technically an Academy then the LA will have zero control over it's admission policy. If it's transferred back to LA control then the LA will have more say-so but not necessarily the final say-so.
Almost, in that the LA has input to fair access protocols that an academy must abide by.This is what the marvellous government has to say.
Department for Education said:
Since September 2013, academies and free schools are able to accept in-year admission applications directly from parents.
An in-year admission application is one that is made outside of the normal time of transfer between schools, for example when a family moves house part way through a school year.
Your academy should say on its website that it is receiving and deciding in-year applications.
Your academy should say on its website that it is receiving and deciding in-year applications from 1 September 2013, if it plans to do so. Your academy can also continue to use the local authority to co-ordinate in-year admission if this suits local circumstances better.
Your academy must also:
*allocate places on the basis of the published over-subscription criteria
*inform local authorities of all applications and their outcome
*inform parents of their right of appeal against the refusal of a place
*comply with the code, paying particular attention to chapter 3
*participate fully in locally agreed fair access protocols
It would surprise me if the school that King Herald has been in touch with has managed to comply with all of the above. An in-year admission application is one that is made outside of the normal time of transfer between schools, for example when a family moves house part way through a school year.
Your academy should say on its website that it is receiving and deciding in-year applications.
Your academy should say on its website that it is receiving and deciding in-year applications from 1 September 2013, if it plans to do so. Your academy can also continue to use the local authority to co-ordinate in-year admission if this suits local circumstances better.
Your academy must also:
*allocate places on the basis of the published over-subscription criteria
*inform local authorities of all applications and their outcome
*inform parents of their right of appeal against the refusal of a place
*comply with the code, paying particular attention to chapter 3
*participate fully in locally agreed fair access protocols
Even where an academy is in DIY mode, it's still common to use the iCAF for convenience and compliance with the national Schools Admissions Code (academies tend to ask for tmi on their own forms and can be naughty as a result).
In particular 'published over-subscription criteria' cannot include 'oh sht this kid would push our average down' and if any headteacher managed to repeat such a remark in front of a reliable independent witness they would get their tits or nuts lightly roasted. If the school isn't over-subscribed i.e. there are any vacant places in the relevant year group it would be interresting to see how an appeal could be refused.
The head has carefully made sure not to mention her closing sentence "but if she fails it will reflect on me" in the long, rambling letter of rejection we received. I'd post it here, but if there is an appeal or process it may cause issues.
However, that is irrelevant. Nobody in power has asked to see the letter they demanded we had to receive before we could move forward. We lost 9 days waiting for it.....
I have just made a phone call to the admissions department again, asking if the procedure really IS to go round schools ourselves, one by one, being rejected, before anything can be done. The answer is 'yes'!
She asked whether the first school had places, and if so, how could they refuse. I explained, she said 'well, you can appeal'.....
This afternoon we go to the next school on our list. We will ask to speak to someone in power, we will explain our plight, hand in the application form, and then wait again.....
My head is throbbing, I have a GP appointment tomorrow morning to try and cure this Ebola I've had for three weeks, since the day we landed here.
However, that is irrelevant. Nobody in power has asked to see the letter they demanded we had to receive before we could move forward. We lost 9 days waiting for it.....
I have just made a phone call to the admissions department again, asking if the procedure really IS to go round schools ourselves, one by one, being rejected, before anything can be done. The answer is 'yes'!
She asked whether the first school had places, and if so, how could they refuse. I explained, she said 'well, you can appeal'.....
This afternoon we go to the next school on our list. We will ask to speak to someone in power, we will explain our plight, hand in the application form, and then wait again.....
My head is throbbing, I have a GP appointment tomorrow morning to try and cure this Ebola I've had for three weeks, since the day we landed here.
Vaud said:
King Herald said:
Vaud said:
You have to feel for schools in this situation. A league table mentality and they get handed a child that doesn't speak English, who is probably still in shock from the change in circumstances and yet they will be held to the same measures of success.
Shame that schools can't exclude mid-year joiners from stats, or can they?
Errrr....Shame that schools can't exclude mid-year joiners from stats, or can they?
My point is I see why schools default position is not inclusion unless forced to. The fault is systemic.
The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get s
t grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves. Blown2CV said:
All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves.
I agree in part. But I don't see why they should be denied the opportunity for the child to re-enter in the start of GCSEs (next year), or enter the 2nd year of GCSEs next year - where odds are she will be able to catch up and even surpass her peers given maturity, etc?king word with yourselves. There are inherent conflicts:
Obligation for parents to place their child in education
A school being penalised for what is essentially an unusual situation (within a league table mentality)
No ability for the LEA to say to the school "take them and we will remove this pupils results from your stats"
The child has the rights to the education, but the parent has the responsibility to try to access that education for them. It's not the child's fault that the parent is in the position they are in, but they still have those rights...
Blown2CV said:
i couldn't agree with you more. In this case the girl can speak english (I presume) but basically knows none of the stuff required to get good grades in GCSE. I don't mean she knows nothing, just not the key, specific things she would need for these exams in the UK. It's basically exactly the same situation.
The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get st grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves.
'The girl' happens to be my daughter, speaks better English than you do, and has excellent results in the private school she has been in for the last six years abroad! She is not some thick immigrant who speaks nothing but Urdu and wants to climb on the welfare bandwagon! The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get s
t grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves. Nobody is 'forcing' the school to work miracles. Nobody is going to "kick off" to the governors, because they can't work miracles and get her 8 gcse's in three months!
And frankly, if the schools are more concerned about thwir 'results aggregate' than they are about their individual pupils, maybe they should go through a cull after the mock exams last week, kick out the thickest ones, eh???
We have decided to move back to the uk for several reasons, one of which is to try and get her back into UK schooling and then college, and would have moved months ago if we could have arranged it so. All we are asking is that she be allowed into a school, either in her current year, or dropping back a year, whatever is best for her. She has spent all her school days as the youngest in her class because of when her birthday falls, late July, so dropping back one year and being the oldest is not such a terrible move, surely??
King Herald said:
Blown2CV said:
i couldn't agree with you more. In this case the girl can speak english (I presume) but basically knows none of the stuff required to get good grades in GCSE. I don't mean she knows nothing, just not the key, specific things she would need for these exams in the UK. It's basically exactly the same situation.
The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get st grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves.
'The girl' happens to be my daughter, speaks better English than you do, and has excellent results in the private school she has been in for the last six years abroad! She is not some thick immigrant who speaks nothing but Urdu and wants to climb on the welfare bandwagon! The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get s
t grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves. Nobody is 'forcing' the school to work miracles. Nobody is going to "kick off" to the governors, because they can't work miracles and get her 8 gcse's in three months!
And frankly, if the schools are more concerned about thwir 'results aggregate' than they are about their individual pupils, maybe they should go through a cull after the mock exams last week, kick out the thickest ones, eh???
We have decided to move back to the uk for several reasons, one of which is to try and get her back into UK schooling and then college, and would have moved months ago if we could have arranged it so. All we are asking is that she be allowed into a school, either in her current year, or dropping back a year, whatever is best for her. She has spent all her school days as the youngest in her class because of when her birthday falls, late July, so dropping back one year and being the oldest is not such a terrible move, surely??
oldbanger said:
The interesting thing is that as far as I am aware schools can make their worst performers sit gcses as external candidates and effectively remove them from the stats. It certainly happened at my school and I know of other examples since then. Has this loophole been closed now?
I don't think they can. The only reason I say it is because I know of one HT who played every trick in the book to increase his school's grades eg getting the less-academically-able to sit vocational qualifications such as hairdressing, cookery, etc) just to get more "points". had this been an option he would have been on it like a tramp on hot chips. When they removed the option for soft qualifications his school attainment ratings dropped by something like 5%.King Herald said:
'The girl' happens to be my daughter, speaks better English than you do, and has excellent results in the private school she has been in for the last six years abroad! She is not some thick immigrant who speaks nothing but Urdu and wants to climb on the welfare bandwagon!
Could you not put her back into a private school?sleepera6 said:
It WAS a dumb decision. You should of moved back when she was 14, or just waited and moved when she is 17.
Thanks for the incredibly sage advice. In hindsight I should have tried harder at school 40 years ago myself, become a senior CEO in Microsoft, earned millions, then I could have put her in the best private schools all her days......but unfortunately having brilliant ideas AFTER the fact does nothing to improve this situation!Vaud said:
OP, what advice assurances did you get before moving back mid-school year? Did someone say this was going to be possible?
I came back in October to check out the possibilities, start things rolling, and the school that rejected us sounded very positive at that time. They never 'promised' anything, as they eagerly pointed out at the interview, but the guy I spoke to personally in October sounded very enthusiastic and positive that they could accommodate us in some way or form. When we actually turned up in the flesh he seemed somewhat shocked and immediately started back-pedalling on the whole thing.....Having met him several times now I get the impression he likes to please whomever he actually happens to be talking to at that particular time.
Not read any of the thread but have searched for the word 'census' and nothing.
I think the Head may have been fobbing you off until census day, which was Thursday. If your daughter comes on roll on Monday she won't be counted in the GCSE results of the school in summer.
She wasn't on roll in October (for that census) so he wouldn't have got any funding for her even if she was on roll before this Thursday so that really isn't the concern.
In case it's not obvious I work in a school and know about how league tables and funding are calculated.
I think the Head may have been fobbing you off until census day, which was Thursday. If your daughter comes on roll on Monday she won't be counted in the GCSE results of the school in summer.
She wasn't on roll in October (for that census) so he wouldn't have got any funding for her even if she was on roll before this Thursday so that really isn't the concern.
In case it's not obvious I work in a school and know about how league tables and funding are calculated.
Edited by northwick on Saturday 21st January 16:49
sleepera6 said:
King Herald said:
Blown2CV said:
i couldn't agree with you more. In this case the girl can speak english (I presume) but basically knows none of the stuff required to get good grades in GCSE. I don't mean she knows nothing, just not the key, specific things she would need for these exams in the UK. It's basically exactly the same situation.
The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get st grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves.
'The girl' happens to be my daughter, speaks better English than you do, and has excellent results in the private school she has been in for the last six years abroad! She is not some thick immigrant who speaks nothing but Urdu and wants to climb on the welfare bandwagon! The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get s
t grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves. Nobody is 'forcing' the school to work miracles. Nobody is going to "kick off" to the governors, because they can't work miracles and get her 8 gcse's in three months!
And frankly, if the schools are more concerned about thwir 'results aggregate' than they are about their individual pupils, maybe they should go through a cull after the mock exams last week, kick out the thickest ones, eh???
We have decided to move back to the uk for several reasons, one of which is to try and get her back into UK schooling and then college, and would have moved months ago if we could have arranged it so. All we are asking is that she be allowed into a school, either in her current year, or dropping back a year, whatever is best for her. She has spent all her school days as the youngest in her class because of when her birthday falls, late July, so dropping back one year and being the oldest is not such a terrible move, surely??
The system in the UK doesn't really allow alot of pro-activity on finding schools either as you are not able to apply until you have a permanent address (which has to be proved through a signed lease, utility bills etc.) so getting a pre-admission doesn't work.
It is also true that schools are driven by their rankings as shown by the tables published in most newspapers over the last few days. It may be wrong but it is the reality of the situation.
Getting back to the issue, I would suggest that King apply to every school that realistically can be reached by his daughter. Applying to one and waiting for an answer is potentially going to be a long process. If you can afford it, private schools will be much more flexible in their admissions and year group if they have any places available. As stated by me and others previously, good GCSE grades are important to progress through 6th Form and on to University so dropping a year is very important in my view.
If that doesn't come up with anything then I assume you go back to the LEA and say there is nothing and see what they say.
sleepera6 said:
King Herald said:
Blown2CV said:
i couldn't agree with you more. In this case the girl can speak english (I presume) but basically knows none of the stuff required to get good grades in GCSE. I don't mean she knows nothing, just not the key, specific things she would need for these exams in the UK. It's basically exactly the same situation.
The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get st grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves.
'The girl' happens to be my daughter, speaks better English than you do, and has excellent results in the private school she has been in for the last six years abroad! She is not some thick immigrant who speaks nothing but Urdu and wants to climb on the welfare bandwagon! The attitude that the school should be forced to perform magic on this girl, knowing fine well that she will get s
t grades... and then have the parents kick off and try and make it all the school's fault (on top of the fact that she has caused their results aggregate to drop as well) is quite frankly disgusting. It's a stupid decision to move to the UK at this point in her schooling, and that decision is solely on the parents - NOT the school. The school should not be forced to do anything at all. All of this going to the press, kicking off to the governors, legal action - you all need to have a fking word with yourselves. Nobody is 'forcing' the school to work miracles. Nobody is going to "kick off" to the governors, because they can't work miracles and get her 8 gcse's in three months!
And frankly, if the schools are more concerned about thwir 'results aggregate' than they are about their individual pupils, maybe they should go through a cull after the mock exams last week, kick out the thickest ones, eh???
We have decided to move back to the uk for several reasons, one of which is to try and get her back into UK schooling and then college, and would have moved months ago if we could have arranged it so. All we are asking is that she be allowed into a school, either in her current year, or dropping back a year, whatever is best for her. She has spent all her school days as the youngest in her class because of when her birthday falls, late July, so dropping back one year and being the oldest is not such a terrible move, surely??
if he indeed wants the best for his kids long term, he'll allow her to do the last bit of schooling in the system she has spent the vast majority in. Anything other than that is guaranteeing her rubbish marks, and rather than her just have to re-sit the exams or the final year like UK-schooled students, she would potentially have to re-join at the start of year 10, and even if it were possible, which i am sure it is not, she wouldn't have done the previous 3 years in the UK syllabus. I mean it's frankly idiotic and is guaranteed to give her poor outcomes over the long term, and ruin her self-esteem if she is a bright kid.
King Herald said:
Yes,I know it is pretty much mine and her mums fault for dragging her away from England, so no need for the usual suspects to climb on their high horses and start telling us so.
I knew it would happen, surprised it didn't turn into a fvckfest of 'you should gave done this, or that, or the other' comments earlier actually. 
Blown2CV said:
if he indeed wants the best for his kids long term, he'll allow her to do the last bit of schooling in the system she has spent the vast majority in. Anything other than that is guaranteeing her rubbish marks, and rather than her just have to re-sit the exams or the final year like UK-schooled students, she would potentially have to re-join at the start of year 10, and even if it were possible, which i am sure it is not, she wouldn't have done the previous 3 years in the UK syllabus. I mean it's frankly idiotic and is guaranteed to give her poor outcomes over the long term, and ruin her self-esteem if she is a bright kid.
Any more useful and constructive comments, such as 'build a time machine and go back 7 years?? Or some other such tedious drivel????? Or are you done now with your useless gobshyte?????We are HERE, a school basically told us they could accommodate us and things would be okay, so we moved! End of story. So if you have nothing at all constructive to say, keep the f
k out of the thread!!!!!King Herald said:
King Herald said:
Yes,I know it is pretty much mine and her mums fault for dragging her away from England, so no need for the usual suspects to climb on their high horses and start telling us so.
I knew it would happen, surprised it didn't turn into a fvckfest of 'you should gave done this, or that, or the other' comments earlier actually. Blown2CV said:
if he indeed wants the best for his kids long term, he'll allow her to do the last bit of schooling in the system she has spent the vast majority in. Anything other than that is guaranteeing her rubbish marks, and rather than her just have to re-sit the exams or the final year like UK-schooled students, she would potentially have to re-join at the start of year 10, and even if it were possible, which i am sure it is not, she wouldn't have done the previous 3 years in the UK syllabus. I mean it's frankly idiotic and is guaranteed to give her poor outcomes over the long term, and ruin her self-esteem if she is a bright kid.
Any more useful and constructive comments, such as 'build a time machine and go back 7 years?? Or some other such tedious drivel????? Or are you done now with your useless gobshyte?????We are HERE, a school basically told us they could accommodate us and things would be okay, so we moved! End of story. So if you have nothing at all constructive to say, keep the f
k out of the thread!!!!!t whether you like it. You need to keep her in school over there till she's done, otherwise you are ruining her chances of getting good qualifications. You cannot blame a UK school for telling you you are doing the wrong thing by trying to enrol her at this point, because you are doing the wrong thing by trying to enrol her at this point. For some people it is always the school's fault, and they take no responsibility for their own, and their family's outcomes. Take some responsibility.
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